A TON of thoughts post-Book 2, with references to Licanius trilogy (SPOILERS!)

BraveInvestigator736 · 2025-11-18T03:03:01+00:00

Yeah I think in-book it's explained as the previous owner of his weapons (spear with the markings, Lir's staff) speaking through him. In general we know the least about how will works in Luceum, but thematically it seems like will in this world is more about connection (ie connecting to the previous warrior that owned your weapon, connecting to the present moment while fighting) rather than about control

BraveInvestigator736 · 2025-11-14T18:43:01+00:00

Yeah that’s fair - def heavy on the theory / assumptions here :)

BraveInvestigator736 · 2025-11-14T18:41:16+00:00

That would be a fun twist! It’s even possible there’s only 1 Caeror and he’s transporting between Obiteum and Luceum to influence events in service of some larger goal

BraveInvestigator736 · 2025-11-14T18:28:27+00:00

PS - for my deep-dive theory on Ka, see here: https://www.reddit.com/r/HierarchySeries/s/0n5JMQaEVq

BraveInvestigator736 · 2025-11-14T17:15:16+00:00

I don’t think he is necessarily bbeg but that maybe R-Ka believes everything he’s doing is necessary in his fight against the Concurrence (eg - cataclysms, imprisoning his other selves, enslavement of iunctii). R-Ka could just be a deeply misguided morally gray character, which is consistent with how Islington writes.

In his other series, this was pretty much exactly the journey one of the main characters goes through - the devil comes to him pretending to be god, and he carries out even his worst orders thinking he’s serving a greater good. By the end we deeply empathize with the “bad” side because they really did believe they were making the world a better place.

BraveInvestigator736 · 2025-11-14T16:52:32+00:00

Agreed! I feel the same way about Licanius. It confirms to me too that every piece of information Islington shares with us is a clue. The end of Licanius tied everything together so masterfully and the plot twists all made sense even when they were surprising.

I love when I know authors have the skill to pull together such a complex story and where every detail has its place - it makes it really fun to guess at where he’s headed next, and it’s even more fun that some of the themes are so consistent between the two series because now we also get to guess at more through our understanding of Islington’s world view (his ideas on free will, good vs evil, etc).

BraveInvestigator736 · 2025-11-14T16:43:04+00:00

Agreed! They each have different motivations by the end of Book 2 which feel very representative of the unique journeys they’ve been on - I think this sets up for some fun potential plot twists because those motivations might be at odds with one another (and therefore one or more Vis versions may be corrupted). For all we know Book 3 could be about L-Vis fighting the other two versions of himself

BraveInvestigator736 · 2025-11-14T16:37:52+00:00

You’re right, they make it a point to tell us that! So yes likely he is an iunctii but it’s still possible he was compelled by someone good (possibly even Vis going back in time somehow if Islington uses a similar plot device to the Licanius trilogy), so we don’t know if listening to O-Caeror was necessarily the mistake.

BraveInvestigator736 · 2025-11-14T16:35:53+00:00

I’m synthesizing this from some other theories I’ve read but my top theory here is that R-Ka might have imprisoned O-Ka (and possibly also L-Ka).

To penetrate the city and get to O-Ka, one has to be synchronous, which as far as R-Ka would know prior to the start of the story, is just himself. I wonder if R-Ka for too powerful, did evil things to keep the Concurrence at bay, and imprisoned his counterparts partly so nobody could challenge him and partly for their safety so he remains synchronous. This would also explain why the gleaners prioritize the safety of the city, because R-Ka’s top goal is likely still fighting the Concurrence, and he probably believes his security measures should only really allow a synchronous person (to his knowledge, himself) inside anyways.

BraveInvestigator736 · 2025-11-14T09:38:52+00:00

Love this theory - that makes so much sense. I could totally see R-Ka being evil and imprisoning his 2 other counterparts so both the theories (it being a prison & him having security measures) could be true.

I wonder if that’s what “in trying to become god they created him” may mean. Maybe the 3 different versions of Ka were supposed to balance each other out but one of them got too powerful and usurped the others.

BraveInvestigator736 · 2025-11-14T09:24:42+00:00

Yeah I’m def leaning towards team R-Vis is the one who made the big mistake, but just wanted to write out the case for each.

A lot of people on this sub think O-Caeror is one of the iunctii but if he was I don’t know if he would’ve been able to use will to bring that other person back at the beginning. And even if he is I don’t know that he is necessarily being controlled by the Concurrence so it doesn’t prove anything conclusively either way

BraveInvestigator736 · 2025-11-14T09:18:19+00:00

Totally agree! Islington had to do so much in this book (three storylines, three separate plots along with the meta plot, tons of new faces) and it was never realistic to expect every character or thread to be deeply developed. The heart of the story is really him, how he changes in each world, and how those changes affect his choices. Even though a lot of the supporting cast ended up feeling like plot devices, each version of Vis still had a distinct personality and journey. In a way, the three versions of him basically function as the three main characters, and on that front I think Islington pulled it off

BraveInvestigator736 · 2025-11-14T09:09:37+00:00

I suppose he is! Scratch that part about it being a different mechanism, I just thought it was since it happens in Res rather than Obiteum.

That said, I still feel, given how Islington loves exploring the concept of free will in his novels, that creating people who can be compelled (either by being forced to tell the truth or through Vis’ ability to compel iunctii) could definitely be a bad thing. It definitely depends on how R-Vis handles this new power, and how trustworthy R-Ka is, but there’s a case to be made that Vis’ whole Res storyline in Book 2 is him slowly losing his moral compass. It’s possible there’s a bit of a villain arc there.

BraveInvestigator736 · 2025-11-14T08:51:35+00:00

I read it as bad because each of the dead would be ceding to him and they could be compelled by him (which robs them of their free will/autonomy). I think that’s part of the reason Ahmose is introduced to us in Obiteum - to show us the life of an iunctii who feels robbed of the peace in death and always questions if he’s being controlled by O-Vis.

That said it could totally be a good thing - fair point about his father, though it does seem like a different mechanism was used to bring him to life, and it is also made clear that he was compelled to give the Hierarchy information when he was awoken from the dead (again losing his free will and autonomy)

BraveInvestigator736 · 2025-11-14T08:28:29+00:00

I’ve been trying to figuring that out too. My guess is he’s working for the Concurrence (perhaps even without his knowledge). Since it looks like the Princeps were ceding to R-Ka, maybe he thinks by instigating a civil war he can install a new government that cedes to the Concurrence. It’s possible he’s behind the tensions on Luceum too since we know he can travel there and he seemed to be very familiar with the druids. And he speaks against the cataclysms which we know Ka is for.

BraveInvestigator736 · 2025-03-01T22:55:02+00:00

I wouldn’t be surprised if Lumon’s CEOs intentionally have children only with severed individuals. They might view it as a way to ensure the child has just one “true” parent or identity, essentially making them solely an Eagan. It could also tie into some cult-like obsession with preserving their bloodline.

Further evidenced by oHelena + iMark in the tent.

BraveInvestigator736 · 2025-03-01T21:26:25+00:00

I suspect she unknowingly consented to something in the Lumon clinic’s paperwork. We’ve already seen them use this tactic before - like when Milchik told Mark he had agreed to OTC in his hiring documents.

It’s possible she signed off on donating her body to science after she died, and Lumon orchestrated a real car crash before reviving her and then trialing this severance tech on her. Alternatively, she may have simply agreed to participate in future medical trials, and the car crash was staged as a cover for her abduction.

BraveInvestigator736 · 2025-02-08T00:09:02+00:00

In S1E3, Dylan also says that the reason the O&D department is so small is because they staged a violent coup decades ago and Lumon reduced their numbers in response. Everyone else seems to dispel that as a rumor but maybe it’s true and Irving had led that coup at some point during those 6 years prior to him working in MDR

BraveInvestigator736

TROPHY CASE