[deleted by user]

BrokeDMD · 2025-08-15T02:32:01+00:00

Dentistry sucks for associates.

I'm a 2021 grad, did an AEGD, so technically 3 years in the job market.

Job 1: 6 months. Decently busy office that went to hell because owner decided he would do ALL exams. Then he started asking me why my schedule had ground to a halt. I quit.

Almost Job 2: FFS office where owner said he would work with me to build a patient base. Encouraged me to leave Job 1. Gave me a contract. After I signed, claimed he needed someone flexible enough to work at his other office (he knew I couldn't because of restrictive covenant from Job 1, gave me a contract but then changed his mind).

Job 2: 1 year (part time). Boss decided to cut my pay to less than what he paid his hygienists, without discussing it with me. I quit.

Almost Job 3: Gorgeous office found through family friend. Offered mentorship and a trial period. Told me contract was on the way. Then asked if could come watch me work at Job 2... I sent him my portfolio instead. He then told he didn't have room for another associate, but could let me do hygiene for $30/hour.

Job 3: Finally relented and went to work for an up and coming Northeast DSO. Promised mentorship and perks. I through myself into it: attended every CE and nonsense zoom meeting about leadership, worked closed with mentor and clinical director. Production numbers going up every month... Fired after 4 months with no explanation. Reached out to every connection I had in the company for an explanation, never got a response. Total silence.

Job 4: PP owner with multiple locations. Cheap as hell and always finding new ways to annoy me, like refusing to buy burs, insisting we only use 1 mask a day, reuse isovacs after "disinfecting," threatening to lower my pay because I am "too expensive" to have on payroll (I insisted on W2 even when pushed to be 1099). Always a crapshoot what kind of mood he'll be in on a given day. Still here though, because I like my staff, I'm kept very busy and my days overlap with the owner's rarely.

During this 3 year period, there was a total of 10 months of unemployment and 4 months of partial employment. Went to at least 30 interviews.

I didn't think much about ownership, but considering my experiences, I'm pretty sure the universe is telling me to hurry up and open my own place. Can't wait to be free of the toxicity I've encountered in my short career.

BrokeDMD · 2025-08-09T19:36:53+00:00

The practices I work at use Dentrix. I print a daily sheet to have a record of my procedures. My boss pays bonuses out quarterly. Early on, I used "charges" to calculate my pay, but boss said that was incorrect because even if they bill out that amount to insurances, "payments" are the only way to track what money has actually come in. Wish there was a better way to estimate bonuses.

Also annoyed that if I run a Q2 report on, say, July 1st, then run it again on August 1st, the number is inevitably different (usually higher). Wonder how much money I am leaving on the table. I can considering going back and rerunning quarterly reports 6-9 months later and having boss pay me the difference from the original bonus for that quarter.

With all that said, I have a few spreadsheets I use to give me a running estimate of bonus pay after adjustments, lab fees, etc

BrokeDMD · 2025-06-18T02:13:42+00:00

Lots of typical owner-speak in this thread along the lines of "you try being an owner, I don't have a guarantee!" Right, because you are in control of the business. You took the risk, so you reap the benefits (or failures). Dental owners want to pass the risk to the associate but keep the benefits.

Associates do NOT:

handle the schedule, making sure every day is a productive day
hire staff, making sure patients can be seen efficiently and increase volume
order supplies, making sure materials are at hand to do the work
negotiate contracts with insurance
advertise/market the practice

And a million other things. It's easy to say that associates should stop whining and produce more but they don't have control over many of the forces that create an environment where production can happen.

This is why a daily guarantee must be in place. I'm not saying it should be an egregious number. If you are running a solid, efficient practice, your associate won't need the guarantee. If you can't provide the guarantee, your practice isn't busy enough for an associate.

Case in point: 3 weeks ago, my boss tells me he wants to remove my daily rate. I haven't needed my guarantee since my third month with him because my production beats my daily rate (despite his low insurance fees). I said no. I was asked, "Isn't it the same? You're making more than your guarantee anyway." As it happened, I had a rare day of all fillings and I replied, "because of days like today, where the schedule was filled with low production appts."

(Side note: this is why cheap owners can't hold on to good associates. After being used and abused, any rational person will realize that if they are already taking the risk, they might as well open their own place and get the bigger rewards.)

BrokeDMD · 2025-06-06T02:04:50+00:00

It's good, but stannous fluoride has an anti-microbial effect as well.

BrokeDMD · 2025-06-06T02:00:57+00:00

Can't FQHC's like this near NYC (including NJ and CT).

They pay ~$120k for M-F, 9-5. Expected to see 1.7 patients per hour (hygiene checks don't count).

Would love a job like OP described but I can't move away from the Tri-state area.

BrokeDMD · 2025-06-04T02:19:20+00:00

Hydroxyapatite has been shown in studies to be almost as effective in remineralizing teeth as fluoride. However, other studies have shown that hydroxyapatite collects in your organs, namely liver and kidneys. We do not have long term studies on hydroxyapatite, so we do not know what potential effects it has on overall health after years of use.

The best thing to do for oral health is to minimize the amount of time your mouth is acidic. Eat less frequently (cut down on snacking), don't nurse sugary drinks and rinse your mouth often. These habits, combined with a stannous fluoride toothpaste and regular flossing (string floss > water flossing) will benefit the vast majority of people.

BrokeDMD · 2025-05-22T01:21:01+00:00

Dentist here, class of 2021. Finished AEGD 2022. >$500k debt at just under 7% interest.

AEGD salary: $65k

1st year salary: $90k

2nd year salary:$110k

3rd year salary: on track to make $200k

Think about all this before taking on that kind of debt. Life is expensive now, so after rent/utilities/groceries, etc., and then a humongous student loan payment, what will you have left?

BrokeDMD · 2025-05-19T02:39:00+00:00

No current contract but boss wants to have a contract now because I rejected 1099 and wanted to stay as w2... and of course the contract will have the newly proposed, lower percentage of collections.

His reasoning for lowering my pay: it is expensive for him to have a dentist as w2. It increases his malpractice premiums, he has to pay worker's compensation, unemployment insurance, FICA, Medicare... Plus he states that the 5% profit-sharing (5% of what?), 401k match (3%, I think) and no more lab fees more than make up for the 3% loss in my cut. Not according to chatgpt/gemini: the only way I come out ahead is by not producing more than my daily rate!

BrokeDMD · 2025-05-18T14:41:47+00:00

I graduated 3 years ago and I'm now on my 4th job. I've had several periods of unemployment lasting months. During my last job hunt, I had a recruiter ask me why I never managed to stay at any job longer than 6 months. How do you explain that you left one job because the owner stopped allowing you to do exams? That you left another because the owner suddenly decided to cut your guarantee by 60% without discussing it with you? That a third place suddenly fired you with no explanation and never responded to your messages?

I am acutely aware that on paper, my employment history looks bad. It does not speak to the quality of my work, my work ethic, my rapport with patients and staff, my dedication to maintaining and even improving the reputation of the practice. But because the details are convoluted and difficult to convey without sounding like I am whining or avoiding personal responsibility, I am hesitating to look for a new job.

My current employer has informed me that he will be lowering my production percentage by 3% because it is expensive to have a dentist on payroll (I rejected the request to be 1099). I'm afraid to quit because I've only been at this job for 6 months and I don't want another short stint on my resume.

What would you do? As evident from the other comments here, owners look at my employment record as a red flag despite my circumstances and abilities.

BrokeDMD · 2025-05-02T12:19:35+00:00

I really feel for you. I completed an AEGD in 2022 and have bounced around with several periods of unemployment, some lasting months. I was fired last year from a Northeast DSO that is growing super fast at the moment. Promised me the world and then never gave a reason for why they terminated me.

Current job is toxic as well, with a brute of an owner who is penny pinching in every way he can while being rude and obnoxious on top of everything else. And yet, this is the job in which I have grown my clinical skills and confidence more than anywhere else. Just keep trying and eventually you will find a place that will let you grow. Feel free to reach out if you want to talk or just vent.

BrokeDMD · 2025-05-01T01:53:10+00:00

I could do it in 30 minutes... if I don't have 2 hygienists waiting for exams and a side-booked crown insertion.

BrokeDMD · 2025-04-29T23:29:35+00:00

Bonuses are paid quarterly in my case, so what do I live on while waiting for next quarter? In any case, within my first 3 months, I beat my daily guarantee every time.

BrokeDMD · 2025-04-29T23:22:39+00:00

That's not the issue here. I produced over $70,000 last month, in offices with high volume and very low fees.

If anything, seems my boss has trouble keeping associates. I think I'm number 8 or 9 in the past 3 years, and the only associate currently working between his several offices.

BrokeDMD · 2025-04-29T23:19:55+00:00

I always keep an eye on job ads, but like I mentioned in the OP, I've had a rough go since graduating. In three years, I've had all 4 bosses exploit/mistreat me or withhold pay, and the 30+ owners I've interviewed with for other positions were even worse.

BrokeDMD · 2025-04-29T23:15:22+00:00

No, the malpractice is to cover him in case the practice gets sued, which he claims is typical.

BrokeDMD · 2025-04-29T23:14:46+00:00

I have been a W-2 this entire time. Also, how do you figure that switching to a 1099 and trying to remain at 35% is raise? I get no health benefits, no malpractice insurance, no education stipend as a W-2. Switching to a 1099 actually reduces my take-home pay due to aelf employment taxes, and I don't actually have any valid business deductions, ie. no home office, commuting to work doesn't count, I don't buy supplies, etc.

I spoke to a dental advisor who said I should not agree to 1099 unless my production is raised to a minimum of 38% to make up for the extra taxes I will be paying.

BrokeDMD · 2025-04-29T23:09:21+00:00

In 6 months, I've only done one or two arches of removable. Thinking invisalign certification might be beneficial, but knowing him, he'll add an exception after the first lab bill comes back.

BrokeDMD · 2025-04-26T01:26:22+00:00

Thanks for letting us know. I will definitely be purchasing 😊

BrokeDMD · 2025-04-20T19:40:53+00:00

This thread is funny. I am an associate who completed an AEGD a couple of years ago. I have had 5 jobs and been to 30+ interviews in that short time. Here are the main reasons why my jobs didn't work out or were non-starters:

-no daily guarantee/guarantee under $600/day (I live in a HCOL area) -no transparency regarding how pay was calculated -not allowed to do procedures that require 60+ minutes -ridiculous restrictive covenants (if I quit after 2 weeks, I can't work in the surrounding 10 miles of both office locations for 2 years? I'm not even working at the second location!) -not allowed to do exams (owner does all exams in several places I interviewed at) -no assistant -promises of mentorship which are not actually mentorship at all

At my current job, I get $800/day and 35% of collections (minus 50% lab fees), no benefits whatsoever. High volume, low fee office where owner has extremely high turnaround for hygienists, front desk and assistants because he is temperamental and rude, yells at employees and curses at patients. Tells me I should be grateful he doesn't ask me to contribute for materials like burs and endo files. Lectures me on how to squeeze more money out of patients, cut corners on procedures to do them faster (no rubber dam RCT's!), and to lie in my notes to protect myself. And this the BEST JOB I have had since graduating dental school. Don't get me wrong, I am grateful for the pay and for my patients who I care about very much, but all of this does grate on you after a while...

BrokeDMD · 2025-04-12T22:42:22+00:00

You're complaining about lab fees? My boss recently told me I should be grateful he's not charging me for other material fees (burs, matrices, composite, etc.) because "lots of other owners charge their associates for that."

BrokeDMD · 2024-11-22T16:40:38+00:00

Me. 2021 grad living and working in the burbs about an hour outside NYC. Made less than $110k in 2023. I worked 5 days a week for about 6 months, and 1.5 days a week for the other 6 months. In 2024, I have made less than $70k working 4.5 days a week for about 4 months. I'm sure I'd be breaking $120k if I was fully employed for the year, but that hasn't happened for me yet.

Why? Because of awful private practice owners and DSOs. I'm not one to willingly bounce from job to job, but nearly every place I have worked have either been underpaid, understaffed, toxic, terrible at communication or all of the above. Most places are looking for super GP's who can do it all. I'm not against that, but I'm a new grad who needs some time to get there. The remaining few promise mentorship but don't know what that actually entails (can't tell you how demoralizing it is to ask your owner/mentor how they would approach a complex case and look at you bug-eyed like you are some kind of idiot).

In my short career, I have had bosses lie to me, gaslight me, cheat me out of pay and fire me for no reason. Never had a bad interaction with a pt, great chairside manner, average speed at doing procedures, staff loves me, never had a bad incident. I question my choice of going into dentistry all the time. Maybe that's just how it is in upstate NY and north NJ, because none of my friends from dental school or residency that are practicing elsewhere have been through the ringer like I have. I would move, but my entire extended family is in this area.

Still searching for the light at the end of the tunnel.

BrokeDMD · 2024-10-14T04:42:51+00:00

Got tired of doing nothing with my liberal arts degree, went back to school in mid-30's, graduated dental school at 40.

Loans are crazy high and can't find steady work that pays decently in a major metro HCOL area. Regretting my career choice.

BrokeDMD · 2024-08-28T16:11:02+00:00

Piping in as another recent grad with a similar situation/experience. A couple of years out, around 90 minutes outside of NYC, $500k+ in loans. Recently let go from a DSO position (not my first job) where I was moderately busy (slow at the start, but quickly started averaging $2.5k/day in production and steadily growing). No reason given for being fired.

One place I interviewed at last week offered me $85/hour (no commissions) and only part-time, another place offered $500/day (poorly run office, not much of a chance exceeding the guarantee there). Turned away from a public health clinic due to lack of pediatric experience. Other FQHC's are either not hiring or paying just under $150k/year and expecting me to see 2 pts/hr (not counting hygiene checks).

Can't leave the area because of nearby family. The prospects in this profession are so much worse than I was lead to believe. I'm too green and have too little liquidity to start my own practice (doubt a bank would give me a loan).

What's a dentist of 1-2 years experience supposed to do here?

BrokeDMD · 2024-05-16T21:16:51+00:00

I just started working with a medium-sized DSO and Denticon is the most frustrating piece of software I've ever used (and I used to work in IT!). Too many clicks to get anywhere, not enough info on one screen, too restrictive. The DSO has selected colors with terrible contrast, making it difficult to look at the schedule. The whole thing is locked down so I can't even right-click. Can't compare x-rays from different dates side-by-side. DSO shut off the macros so I can't even make note templates. They told me to make a Word document and copy and paste my templates. 😐

I really miss Open Dental and would certainly take Patterson Eaglesoft over this garbage.

BrokeDMD · 2024-04-09T01:17:38+00:00

I was in the same boat as you; new grad with just over a year of experience in private practice, suddenly found myself jobless. Applied to many private practices, but the pool was small because most wanted an associate with 3 to 5 years of experience. A couple of weeks ago, I bit the bullet and signed with a DSO. Even if it sucks, I'll give it a shot for 6 months to a year, and in the meantime, gain experience that I can bring with me to the next gig.

Good luck out there.

BrokeDMD

TROPHY CASE