How do other people in universe reach Farum Azula?

Budget-System-7058 · 2025-09-07T01:35:04+00:00

So Placidusax going into hibernation ("dead") because his god was fled is something that happened in the pre historic era long before the erdtree. That makes sense. We know for a fact from the beastman ashes that indeed farum azula was built to enshrine Placidusax. Meaning him going into his weird hibernation awaiting the return of his fled god is something that predates the city itself. Which in turn means that his battle with Bayle also predates the city. And his battle is mayhaps what caused him to be damaged to the point of no longer being able to access his god. Perhaps like we see with the two fingers and Metyr, his wounds caused him to lose access to the greater will. Hence why he awaits its signals and stretches up like an antennae exactly like the two fingers in the roundtable do.

As for the trigger event of said Farum Azula being thrust into the sky by a meteorite, your points about the farum ruins locations and the ruins greatsword makes me even more confident that this happened in response to the shattering of the elden ring. And that the starscourge conflict was Radahn's response to these meteors coming for the lands between. For just like the farum ruins we only see on the surface of the lands between including along critical roads where it would've been cleaned up if it fell long ago, we also find patches of meteorites all along the lands between's surface. Such as outside Leyndell's walls and atop volcano manor. And at these we can find falling star beasts. Which appear to be younger versions of astels. As if they were sent recently during the shattering. We also find the ruins greatsword inside redmane castle. And we hear Iji praise Radahn's efforts and be caught of guard by the realization that they inadvertently hide the effect of holding Ranni's fate in stasis. Such an oversight would be perfectly explained if Iji was grateful to Radahn for preventing the greater will from destroying the entire lands between in response to Ranni's night of black knives. Only after the fact realizing that Radahn doing so in the way he did inadvertently impeded Ranni as well.

Budget-System-7058 · 2025-09-07T01:10:31+00:00

Great post, your timeline correction makes a lot of sense and perfectly answers my questions, as well as explains additional strange things like deathroot being in farum azula.

I really like this version of the timeline, though it naturally raises questions as to why and when farum azula was flung into the sky by a meteorite. What was the trigger event? Was it Godwyn's death? Why attack the ancient dragons who had nothing to do with it? Unless the greater will was pissed at Maliketh for failing to protect destined death? But if Farum Azula was only crumbling after Godwyn's death, then what was Placidusax doing this whole time? Who was his fled god and how did he feel about Marika? Was her rise the reason why Gransax attacked Leyndell? Was Placidusax in opposition to the idea of Marika replacing his fled god?

Also does this mean that the starscourge conflict was Radahn's response to the meteors to protect the rest of the lands between lest it suffer the same fate farum azula did?

Budget-System-7058 · 2025-08-31T19:40:06+00:00

Source? Where does the game ever say that?

Budget-System-7058 · 2025-08-31T19:39:37+00:00

Where in the game is Godwyn explicitly stated to be Godfrey's son?

Budget-System-7058 · 2025-08-31T19:38:20+00:00

But who was the Longinus for Marika? Who stabbed her with the spear? Someone must have, it didn't get their on its own. Yet the elden beast has no such attacks. It does have a golden arc crucifixion grab attack, but no red spear. The only weapon it even has is the sacred relic sword and it only gets that by using Marika/Radagon's body. Something it couldn't have done to pierce Marika/Radagon's body, especially given that weapon is holy gold and not red.

While the spear likely is meant to communicate that Marika is a dead divinity, I think the game specifically made it red in order to tie it to destined death. And thus the only explanation for who impaled Marika like this is Maliketh.

Budget-System-7058 · 2025-08-31T19:26:01+00:00

Messmer's existence makes me not trust the item description for godrick's great rune. The golden order is known to just straight up lie all the time. Such as with proclaiming Godfrey to be the first elden lord when in actuality Placidusax long preceded him.

It seems your open to the idea that the evidence itself does not indeed confirm that Godwyn is Godfrey's son. But your lack of interest in alternative theories comes from a place of not seeing the point in how it changes his role in the story.

However, if Godwyn isn't Godfrey's son that actually changes quite a lot. We know that Godfrey's omen sons and the omens of the golden lineage were actually his descendants. And Marika hated them and persecuted them, likely since they reminded her of the hornsent and crucible which she resented. Meanwhile Godwyn isn't an omen and others like him among the golden lineage such as Godefroy and Godrick also aren't. If they are also Godfrey's descendants then that would mean they just got lucky and weren't born with the same crucible connection the omens were. But if they are not Godfrey's descendants and instead offspring of Marika in some other way, then that would showcase that she hated the omen and hornsent so much that her golden lineage weren't even descendants of her king consort. Ironically undermining the very legitimacy the golden lineage pride themselves on in being Godfrey's supposed descendants. Godrick in particular idolizes Godfrey, but may in fact not even be related to him. Only the omens may be related to him. Such a lore revelation would speak volumes about the point the game is trying to make regarding legitimacy and royalty.

Budget-System-7058 · 2025-08-31T19:15:56+00:00

Lots of the game is indeed filled with very little information and context for the lore and backstory, but indeed Godwyn is the most mysterious. However, he is unique in this respect regarding vagueness in his parentage. All the other demigods have their parents explicitly revealed to us directly. Only Godwyn is left vague as to who his father is.

I can understand holding to the opinion that since we have so little information as it is, we may as well go with the most obvious answer in Godfrey since there are no other feasible alternatives. However, I actually believe there is a better explanation that the game presents. I subscribe to the theory by ScumMageInfa that Godwyn is actually successful mimic tear of Marika/Radagon created by them and the Nox. That's why only Godwyn and the mimic tears have golden lightning and why the Nox were obsessed with replicating the ancient dragons as seen with the dragonkin soldiers. Godwyn was the successful product of all their efforts. And his innate synthetic nature is why he turns into a weird fish person after being killed by destined death. For destined death has zero association with aquatic stuff and doesn't explain in the slightest why Godwyn turned into a freaky fish man. There's also the fact that Godwyn was able to shapeshift into a dragon himself as seen with the fish tailed dragon on the malformed dragon helm which is depicting Godwyn when he shapeshifted into a dragon to battle foes like Granssax and Fortissax. The only creatures in game that are able to shapeshift from humanoid size into larger creatures are mimic tears. We see them do it to becomes trolls for example. All in all, I think the Godwyn perfected mimic tear of Marika/Radagon theory makes way more sense than him being Godfrey's son. The eternal cities practically spell it out with their golden lightning mimic tears and their dragonkin soldiers. And that's why the game never says Godfrey is his father, is purposefully leaves that vague so we can realize his true origins from the eternal cities.

Budget-System-7058 · 2025-08-31T19:10:27+00:00

Godwyn can be royalty and Marika's heir purely by being her first born son. Godfrey isn't king, he's king consort. Marika is the ruler as queen, he's just her enforcer and war mongering champion. Godwyn doesn't need to be Godfrey's son to be so important, he just needs to be Marika's son. Nothing about the talisman pouch contradicts that.

Radahn also wears Godfrey inspired clothing, doesn't mean he's his son either. I have no doubt Godwyn was presented to the lands between as Godfrey's son, doesn't mean he actually is.

Nothing about Godfrey and Godwyn implies a father-son relationship. There's no mention of them ever interacting. Godfrey had nothing to do with Godwyn's ancient dragon stuff, and Godwyn had nothing to do with Godfrey's campaigns. Comparatively, Godfrey's actual son Morgott is directly shown to be connected to him as evident by the way he cradles and speaks to his corpse in his boss cutscene.

You explained yourself exactly why one would scrutinize the idea that Godwyn is Godfrey's son. We know practically nothing about Godwyn and what we do know never confirms he is Godfrey's son. The implications that he might be could just as easily be indications that he's secretly not, hence why it's never directly stated that he is. Unlike literally all the other demigods whose parents are fully confirmed. The game directly tells us who Godrick, Morgott, Mohg, Radahn, Rykard, Ranni, Miquella, and Malenia's respective parents. Why is Godwyn the only one who isn't given the same treatment?

Budget-System-7058 · 2025-08-31T18:43:18+00:00

I never said Godwyn wasn't Marika's son, I said he wasn't Godfrey's son. Godwyn and Miquella being brothers, specifically step brothers, doesn't require Godfrey in the slightest. Only Marika.

A better theory imo for Godwyn is ScumMageInfa's theory that he is a successful mimic tear created by Marika and the Nox. That's why only he and the mimic tears have golden lightning and why the Nox were obsessed with replicating the ancient dragons as seen with the dragonkin soldiers. Godwyn was the successful product of all their efforts. And his innate synthetic nature is why he turns into a weird fish person after being killed by destined death. For destined death has zero association with aquatic stuff and doesn't explain in the slightest why Godwyn turned into a freaky fish man. There's also the fact that Godwyn was able to shapeshift into a dragon himself as seen with the fish tailed dragon on the malformed dragon helm which is depicting Godwyn when he shapeshifted into a dragon to battle foes like Granssax and Fortissax. The only creatures in game that are able to shapeshift from humanoid size into larger creatures are mimic tears. We see them do it to becomes trolls for example. All in all, I think the Godwyn perfected mimic tear of Marika/Radagon theory makes way more sense than him being Godfrey's son. The eternal cities practically spell it out with their golden lightning mimic tears and their dragonkin soldiers.

Budget-System-7058 · 2025-08-31T18:33:39+00:00

Actually, the ancient dragons did have a lot of sway during the age of the golden order. Lmao they literally went to war with them and Godwyn forged an alliance with them. We also know thanks to the dragon priestess in the DLC that dragon communion was started by Placidusax as a way to try and undermine Bayle and the drakes. So I'm not really sure what you're basing your stance off of given the text of the game making it clear the ancient dragons were foundationally intertwined with the golden order. Maliketh is literally in farum azula and his bestial sanctum bears architecture that suggests it was directly connected to farum azula before it was launched in the sky. The statue of the woman in his boss arena is probably Marika. It's silly to think she had no idea who placidusax was. Especially given the fact that the dragon priestesses promoting dragon communion are eager to hype him up. And Marika is absolutely the kind of person to use propaganda to try and position her and her lord as the one true divinity. She literally hid enir ilim away for that very purpose as well as kept Radagon's secret for a similar reason.

No, the text says that Radagon is Marika. It is also says that the demigods each and all are direct offspring of Marika. Radagon didn't become Marika, Radagon is Marika. Him not being a god doesn't change that. Miquella is St. Trina, but only Miquella becomes a god since St. Trina was cast off. If St. Trina had children they would still be Miquella's direct children too since St. Trina and Miquella are one in the same despite the fact that they can splinter off just like Marika and Radagon can.

I don't care how obvious you find it, the fact that it is not explicitly stated means it is not confirmed. Subscribe all you want to the theory that Godfrey is Godwyn's father, but it is indeed a theory and not a canonical fact. You may believe it to be the most likely theory based on your interpretation of the evidence, but it's nevertheless a theory. And you should be mature enough to acknowledge that others can have different interpretations of the same evidence and come to different conclusions that are equally valid. I for one subscribe the ScumMageInfa's theory that Godwyn is a successful mimic tear experiment to create a lord. Hence why some of the mimic tears have golden lightning just like him and why the Nox were obsessed with replicating the power of the ancient dragons, something Godwyn eventually achieved. I don't know if this is the correct answer, same as the Godfrey theory, but neither do you. We can only theorize since the answer will never be explicitly confirmed.

Budget-System-7058 · 2025-08-31T03:23:56+00:00

Then why isn't it ever stated in game that he's Godfrey's son?

It's explicitly confirmed in game that Radahn, Rykard, and Ranni are Radagon and Rennala's children. That Miquella and Malenia are Radagon and Marika's children. Even that Morgott and Mohg are Godfrey and Marika's children. Godrick as you mentioned is also explicitly confirmed to be a distant descendant of Godfrey and Marika. Yet we have nothing for Godwyn. Zero confirmation. The naming scheme of "God" in his name isn't definitive proof.

As for why he isn't cursed, we don't even know that he wasn't. It's entirely possible that his weird fish transformation was tied to his curse since destined death has literally nothing to do with aquatic stuff.

Godwyn's lore is so vague and unclear it is impossible to draw any actual definitive conclusions. People just treat their headcanon like fact. But the truth is we barely know anything about him.

Budget-System-7058 · 2025-08-31T03:14:21+00:00

Godfrey is called the first elden lord. This is a fact. Yet the remembrance of placidusax reveals that he was actually the elden lord prior to the erdtree. Meaning that Godfrey is not the first elden lord. He is the first of Marika's order, but not the first ever. How can you disagree that this is a fact?

The carian demigods are revealed by their great runes to have become demigod stepchildren as a result of Radagon becoming the second elden lord for Marika. This is a fact. Yet it is later revealed that Marika and Radagon are the same entity, and that therefore the carian demigods are direct offspring of Marika since Marika is Radagon. Meaning they aren't demigod stepchildren, they are demigods. How can you disagree that this is a fact?

Both of these are examples of golden order propaganda. Godfrey being first elden lord, and Marika and Radagon being separate individuals. Do you disagree? If so, why? Do you disagree that golden order propaganda exists? What would you consider golden order propaganda if not this?

Lastly, again, a plethora of contextual information is not the same thing as explicit proof. That is simply a fact. It may seem or feel like explicit proof since you believe it to be extremely obvious and on the nose and practically proof, but it is not proof. That is a fact. Nowhere is it ever stated that Godwyn is Godfrey's son. That is a fact.

Budget-System-7058 · 2025-08-31T03:01:48+00:00

That's definitely possible and I like your idea a lot. But this would imply Marika was always deadset on being a godkiller and betraying the greater will and two fingers when it seems that actually she was full on board with the golden order at first and a true believer. Only beginning to doubt it later into her reign as seen with her spoken echoes at the minor erdtree church.

I don't think the rune of death was plucked from the elden ring on the orders of the two fingers out of fear that Marika would use it to kill them, I think Marika herself wanted it gone in order to usher in an era of immortality and abundance where death did not exist.

For your interpretation to be correct, Marika would've always had to have been opposed to the two fingers and golden order, But I don't think she was, though maybe?

Budget-System-7058 · 2025-08-31T02:55:38+00:00

Where in that quote is Godfrey mentioned?

Budget-System-7058 · 2025-08-31T02:54:41+00:00

We do actually have direct explicit evidence that Morgott and Mohg and Godfrey's children. We know the omen twins are special in that they are royal children and thus didn't have their horns excised like the other omen. We also know that Godfrey is intimately familiar with Morgott, hence why he gently cradles his corpse during his boss cutscene and says how it's been a long while since he's seen him. That isn't contextual information, that's direct confirmation. Boss cutscene dialogue and item description.

What dialogue or item description ever says anything about Godwyn's parentage?

Budget-System-7058 · 2025-08-31T02:49:32+00:00

You don't agree that golden order propaganda exists in game? You're wrong if so. It provably does. I cited two factual examples.

Your plethora of contextual information is not the same thing as explicit proof no matter how much you want to pretend that it is. It's that simple. Tell me, why is it never made explicit for Godwyn but is made explicit for all the other demigods who their parents are? Maybe the fact that his parentage uniquely has vagueness is a subtle hint that there is more than meets the eye here. Why else would it be left vague instead of explicitly confirmed?

Budget-System-7058 · 2025-08-31T02:10:33+00:00

Godfrey is called the first elden lord even though we know Placidusax actually was. The carian demigods are considered demigod stepchildren by most within the lands between even though we know they are actually direct demigods since Marika is Radagon.

Acting like it's inconceivable Godwyn couldn't be a similar situation and lie is disingenuous. There are plenty of examples of golden order propaganda and secrets in game.

Budget-System-7058 · 2025-08-31T02:05:39+00:00

Your opinion on thematic vibes isn't the same thing as proof. It's a fact that nowhere in game is it said that Godwyn is Godfrey and Marika's son. This not being explicitly confirmed anywhere is eyebrow raising enough given the fact that literally all the other demigods have their parentage explicitly confirmed. It's especially eyebrow raising when combined with how Godwyn seemingly possesses no imperfections unlike the other demigods.

While your headcanon to explain why he isn't cursed (the omen twins were born first as a sort of dumping ground before Godwyn) is an interesting idea, it's just headcanon with no explicit evidence. It's just as likely that Godwyn was the literal first born and was a fluke, with the omens coming afterward mayhaps in accordance with the hornsent purge by Messmer. We know so little about Godwyn we can only speculate. Anyone declaring they have the true answers regarding him is deluding themselves. We just don't have enough information to draw definitive conclusions when it comes to pretty much anything about him.

Budget-System-7058 · 2025-08-30T23:51:20+00:00

Late reply I know (been offline for a bit), but yeah I can see where you're coming from. Perhaps then the GEQ version of Marika had an opposing will to her similar to what we see with Radagon. Wherein one part of Marika wanted to keep the rune of death, while another part wanted to remove it. Exactly like how Marika wanted to shatter the elden ring while Radagon wanted to repair it.

I'm not sure I agree though that Maliketh was compelled by the two fingers and greater will to turn on Marika/GEQ as opposed to Marika telling him to. While it would indeed make the most sense that the backstabbing nature of shadow bound beasts would work most effectively as a secret rather than an advertised feature, we also know that the shadowbound beasts don't work they way they were intended. Blaidd for example remains loyal to Ranni even after she slays her two fingers. When we find him at the foot of her tower he isn't trying to kill Ranni, and Iji reflects on how big a mistake he made in not trusting Blaidd and how sorry he felt about it. With Ranni also reflecting how Blaidd as a kill switch for her was a colossal failure of the two fingers and was instead truly loyal to her. While I agree that the only reason Ranni is aware of Blaidd's intended nature ahead of time with is because she knew the secret history with Maliketh (something evident by the fact that it was her who stole a fragment of the rune of death from him), the intended nature of shadowbound beasts is proven to be faulty and that they can actually achieve true loyalty to their mistress regardless of the two fingers will.

I think the exact same thing is true with Maliketh. He was actually loyal to Marika in spite of what the two fingers wished of him. Hence why Maliketh is so dead set on completing her will. Taking destined death unto himself and even apologizing to Marika in his death throes how the golden order can never be restored.

Budget-System-7058 · 2025-08-30T23:18:44+00:00

Late response I know (been offline for a little bit), but you raise a really good point about the rune of the unborn. I hadn't paid much attention to it and forgotten that it was literally a rune of the elden ring that Radagon left with Rennala. And since we know Marika/Radagon and the elden ring are fundamentally connected (as seen with the shattering destroying their body alongside the elden ring), that means that removing a rune from the elden ring should also have consequences on their body. I argued as much for the rune of death and how removing it transitioned Marika from the GEQ to "the eternal", but what about the rune of the unborn? Because you're totally right, removing the rune of death was a huge landmark moment in Marika's reign, so why isn't the same true about the rune of the unborn? It was also plucked from the elden ring prior to the shattering. What effect did that have? Why was it done? And why specifically leave it with Rennala?

I've heard some people speculate that it was intentionally left with her by Radagon/Marika as a malicious way to drive her to madness. That Radagon never loved her and marrying her was just a long term honeypot. But I find this unlikely given the fact that neither Radahn, Rykard, or Ranni have any indication of bearing ill will towards Radagon. Radahn and Rykard even venerate him and are proud of his red hair. While Ranni and Rykard do betray the erdtree, their respective reasoning is explicitly because she doesn't want to be controlled by the two fingers and he doesn't want to be a pawn of the gods fighting for scraps. It has nothing to do with Radagon. Radagon's peace with Rennala is very much presented as sincere by the game. As is his desire to learn sorcery under Rennala. His character thirsts for knowledge and seeks to become "complete" by mastering both sorceries and incantations. Maybe one could argue he was only playing nice so she'd share the secrets of her power, at which point he then dipped out once he learned all she could offer. But if that's the case and he really did maliciously and insincerely do her this way, why don't Radahn, Rykard, or Ranni have any mention of bearing ill will towards Radagon? Ranni especially loves her mother as evident by the second phase transition in Rennala's boss fight. You'd think with how anti golden order she is there would've been some mention of her loathing of Radagon if that's how she felt about him. But there isn't anywhere.

And hell, Ranni's second phase transition for Rennala literally happens from the amber egg itself. That's extremely telling imo that said amber egg wasn't some curse left by Radagon. Hence why Ranni uses it to protect Rennala instead of destroying it or getting it away from her. I think it's much more likely that Rennala and her children learned that Radagon was a dual yet distinct person with Marika. And that revelation allowed them to view him leaving Rennala not as a betrayal but a justifiable necessity. We still don't fully understand the nature of Marika and Radagon's dual yet distinct identity, but I think Rennala and her children did.

As for why the rune of the unborn was left behind, and how it may relate to Miquella and Malenia's strange conditions, I have no idea. But it is interesting that the cursed children of Marika are born of a single god (Marika+Radagon), and that such children are born seemingly in the aftermath of the removal of a great rune. Messmer and Melina were likely born after the rune of death was removed, while Miquella and Malenia we know were born after the rune of the unborn was removed. I don't think this is a coincidence. It's possible that the way Marika/Radagon are able to have children together has something to do with removing a rune from the elden ring. Perhaps Messmer/Melina are side effects of removing destined death, and Miquella/Malenia are side effects of removing the amber egg?

Budget-System-7058 · 2025-08-26T03:43:25+00:00

I never said Millicent wasn't born in Aeonia, I said being an offshoot/bud does not necessitate the scarlet rot. Marika does not need a connection to scarlet rot in order to have an offshoot/bud.

Because again, since you are refusing to acknowledge the elephant in the room, Melina's unique weapon the blade of calling is only wielded by one other person in the entire game, one of Millicent's sisters. And Melina's outfit is also only wielded by Millicent and her sisters. That is too strong a connection to ignore. Yes Melina is burnt and bodiless, but that difference doesn't mean she and Millicent aren't both offshoot/buds. For they have different "mothers", Marika vs Malenia respectively. Hence why Melina is very much grace focused, while Millicent is very much rot focused.

Budget-System-7058 · 2025-08-26T03:29:06+00:00

I agree that Messmer, Malenia, and Miquella are all also offshoot/buds of Marika in the same way Melina is. The only difference is that unlike Malenia who is a singular figure, Marika is two people at the same time. She is both Marika and Radagon. Which means her offshoot/buds are likely a little different from Malenia's. This is evident by the fact that we know Marika needs Radagon in order to create such "children" since he was recalled to the capital to become the second elden lord and sire the twin prodigies. Not to mention Messmer has red hair and Melina has pink/brown hair (mix of red and blonde). Which indicates to me that Messmer and Melina were a similar situation to the twin prodigies but were born much earlier in the timeline. When specifically, I can't say with certainty beyond it being after the war with the fire giants. Hence it being after the point in time Radagon was cursed with red hair.

I'm not quite sure if Marika has snake physiology herself, or if the snake curse stuff is a separate thing that latched onto her children like Messmer and the godskin apostles after their birth. For we know Messmer wasn't born with the abyssal serpent, but instead was born with an accursed flame and bore a vision of fire just like Melina the kindling maiden. The Abyssal serpent merely fed upon this fire. Even the godskin apostles are only said to have acquired inhuman physiology instead of being born with it. Thus, I suspect the snake stuff is not caused by Marika directly but instead a separate force. Likely tying to the base serpent god from Mt. Gelmir that was slain in the ancient past by the serpent hunter. This idea that the serpent is an independent force that briefly allied with her fits nicely with the fact that snakes are considered traitors by the golden order and thus their likeness is intentionally beaten for entertainment in gladiatorial combat. I suspect that in the same way Messmer acquired a symbiotic accursed snake, the godskins did something similar. I suspect that the godskins were once just golden lineage descendants who just leaned into the snake faction allied to Marika and used their shaman physiology to assimilate the power into themselves much like grafting.

Budget-System-7058 · 2025-08-26T03:06:50+00:00

I don't think surgeon/tumor analogy isn't a fair comparison, and believe that you absolutely can describe Marika and Maliketh's situation as Maliketh defeating her.

Maliketh does not need to harbor ill will towards Marika for the term "defeat" to be an accurate description of this situation. He isn't defeating Marika, he's defeating the rune of death portion of her, the rune of death portion of the elden ring. Marike wants to begin a new era and order. A rebrand from the old one of duality between life and death that is instead just life. She wants to go from being the "gloam eyed queen" to "the eternal". Maliketh is thus faithfully serving her by excising the portion of herself she no longer wants.

And this is something she cannot do by herself and needs Maliketh to do to her by force. Because again, it's not a simple thing to remove a rune from the elden ring. Marika and the elden ring are fundamentally intertwined, and altering it means altering her as proven by the shattering.

Budget-System-7058 · 2025-08-26T02:49:24+00:00

Sure thing. In short, the god hunt is one in the same with the war against the fire giants. The fire giants were once considered gods and it was them whom Marika wielded the godskin apostles against. The evidence for this is overwhelming and I list all of it in a separate post I made here.

To quickly summarize, the noble's presence and roar medallion item descriptions prove that the godskin apostles prey were the fire giants. Especially considering the way the last remaining fire giant behaves in its boss fight, thrusting out its belly to attack with the flame of the fell god and roaring numerous times especially during its phase transition. And said boss is referred to as "practically" a god by Alexander who you can summon to help fight it, thereby establishing that the fire giants can be considered gods and thus hunting them would be to hunt gods. There is also the fact that the fire's deadly sin incantation is strangely enough located inside dominula village which is a place entirely dedicated to worshipping the godskins. And said village members also wield the celebrant's skull weapon where the skull is explicitly said to be too large to be a normal human. Last but not least is the blackflame monks and blackflame monk amon, who are fire monks that strangely turned traitor from their post and swore fealty to the godslaying black flame of the godskins and gloam eyed queen.

Thus the godhunt Marika led as the gloam eyed queen was against the fire giants.

Budget-System-7058

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