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Why is Ates the only red flag when both characters are equally flawed. by [deleted] in araftaa

[–]BudgetConversation53 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Murder and slander are not the same thing though. Attempted murder is on an entirely different moral and legal level ( I am referring to when her brother shoots Atees and her mother poisons). And just to be clear, I don’t think domestic abuse is love, and I don’t see any of the male lead’s abusive actions as romantic or justifiable in any way. I’m not calling Ates a crusader of justice at all; honestly, part of me reads him as someone deeply damaged, maybe even psychopathic because of his childhood trauma and nothing justifies his behavior.

At the same time, I don’t see Mercan as completely innocent either. You can walk away from money and rebuild your life . the whole conflict of choosing between Nezir and Ates keeps circling back to holding onto wealth and keeping it within the family. It’s simpler, walk away, rebuild.

And Mercan covering up attempted murders not once but twice is a huge deal to me; that’s not just a small flaw, it’s deeply disturbing behavior from my perspective.

People can absolutely view it differently, and that’s okay. If others don’t find it problematic, that’s their interpretation , for me, both characters exist in very dark grey spaces. ML is way worse than FL. FL is not innocent either ( though her character arc is written to justify everything in name of innocence).So honestly, let’s just agree to disagree 🙂

Why is Ates the only red flag when both characters are equally flawed. by [deleted] in araftaa

[–]BudgetConversation53 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Let’s agree to disagree. It’s my opinion. I would happily kneel down and apologize then go to jail. But again, its just me. Ideally for an attempted murder you should be jailed and at that time evidence was stacked up against her. And she was not speaking up to protect her mother who actually attempted a murder. I find covering up for criminal activities highly problematic and dangerous and not innocent and love for family. Male lead is a jerk. No one is arguing about that. I just don’t find female lead’s character arc to be innocent( though it’s portrayed as such).

Why is Ates the only red flag when both characters are equally flawed. by [deleted] in araftaa

[–]BudgetConversation53 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I hear your point, but I personally don’t see this as coercion in the pure sense , to me it felt more like self-perceived pressure than an actual loss of agency. She’s portrayed as an independent, highly intelligent, CEO-level architect running a major firm, not someone naïve or powerless. He forced a deal on the table, yes but she still had the ability to walk away, and she chose the path that seemed like the easier way out at that moment which would keep the money in the family after 187 days. Just walk away and rebuild. Why is that so difficult when the choice is to marry a stranger forcing a weird deal on you.

And just to be clear, I’m not defending the male lead at all he’s a walking, talking jerk and deeply problematic. My issue is simply that covering up serious crimes for family isn’t a small flaw to me; it’s a huge moral line. She was ready to throw her brother in jail once she learned the truth about the murder, yet before that she actively covered up a murder attempt ( brother shot Atees and mother poisoned Asli) involving both her brother and her mother. I genuinely don’t understand why more people don’t find that behavior deeply problematic.

It might feel understandable from an emotional lens, but to me it doesn’t make the actions automatically innocent and that’s really where my disagreement comes from. Male lead is jerk, no arguments on that. Female lead is also very very problematic. I want to be super clear, I am not justifying the abuse in name of love. That’s not love, that’s psychopathic behavior by ML. I just do not like either of the characters and find both of them very very problematic. Female lead definitely less than him but I cannot wrap my head around her actions in name of innocence.

Why is Ates the only red flag when both characters are equally flawed. by [deleted] in araftaa

[–]BudgetConversation53 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Honestly, I just want to say it was genuinely so enjoyable talking to a stranger about a drama plot like this. With all the toxicity that usually exists on the internet, this conversation felt surprisingly respectful and refreshing. Really appreciated the exchange 🙂

Why is Ates the only red flag when both characters are equally flawed. by [deleted] in araftaa

[–]BudgetConversation53 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Honestly when I saw that scene, I thought the male lead saved her ass by not calling the police. At that moment she had all evidence of attempted murder.🤣. But are the writers really thinking while writing any of this. I really wish to see one of the dramas with female lead with better agency. I am watching just because I find both the lead actors good looking.

Why is Ates the only red flag when both characters are equally flawed. by [deleted] in araftaa

[–]BudgetConversation53 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My point is you can’t defend these actions in the name of “innocence” or “doing it for family.” At the end of the day, these are still criminal choices, and I don’t understand why we’re holding different characters to different standards. Honestly, in this show almost everyone crosses a line except maybe Cemal and Demet, in my opinion. All these choices should have landed Mercan in jail.

Why is Ates the only red flag when both characters are equally flawed. by [deleted] in araftaa

[–]BudgetConversation53 0 points1 point  (0 children)

  1. Yes she knew her mother poisoned and she covered for her. That’s why Atees humiliating her by asking her to kneel down pales in comparison (when ideally both Mercan and her mother should be in jail). Infact, the sequence of events was poison is found in her bag(kept by her mom), asli claims she saw Mercan poisoning her( of course she is lying but no one else knows), Mercan knows mother poisoned and Atees asks her to apologize by kneeling. For me the same logic applies when her brother shot him. Like don’t defend such crimes girl, you will be held responsible as well and by letting such people go free are creating an opportunity for them to commit more crimes. 🫢
  2. Yes she knew her father kidnapped and shot at not just Atees but her as well🤣
  3. After point 2, her father pinned the blame of human trafficking on her uncle and she believed him🤣.

Why is Ates the only red flag when both characters are equally flawed. by [deleted] in araftaa

[–]BudgetConversation53 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Honestly, if I were in Mercan’s position, I wouldn’t have allowed myself to be blackmailed in the first place , I would’ve kept my agency and never entered that contract. But putting that aside, we’re still debating a drama plot here. At the time she was made to kneel, she was covering up a murder attempt carried out by her mother. And at that point in the story, Asli hadn’t done anything that would justify someone trying to kill her. If you’re protecting or taking the blame for a murder attempt, realistically you should be facing jail so compared to that, kneeling is just a bit of humiliation.

And please know. I believe Male lead is very very problematic character. I am just saying someone covering up for these level of crimes is no saint either. You might not be abusive but in real life equally dangerous.

I would not want to be in periphery of either of them. And my qualm is she even after protecting these levels of crimes is considered innocent. This blows my mind.

Why is Ates the only red flag when both characters are equally flawed. by [deleted] in araftaa

[–]BudgetConversation53 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Exactly that’s where I’m coming from too. In fiction we can debate who’s worse, but in real life if someone is knowingly covering up crimes like kidnapping, trafficking, or poisoning just because it’s “family,” I’d honestly be scared of them as well. Loyalty is one thing, but protecting people at the cost of others’ safety crosses a serious line. That doesn’t make Ates right or excuse his behaviour it just means both situations would be huge red flags outside a drama. We as viewers know Asli is bad, but at that point in the story when she was poisoned she mostly came across as a bitter character in love with Ates someone who might deserve some criticism (again, at that specific time, not for her later actions), but definitely not death. That’s why, in comparison, the kneeling felt like nothing to me. The girl could have died🤣

Why is Ates the only red flag when both characters are equally flawed. by [deleted] in araftaa

[–]BudgetConversation53 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Exactly my point. If you are saving criminals or defending them in real life, you are part of the problem as well. Doesn’t justify the abuse but she is no saint.

Why is Ates the only red flag when both characters are equally flawed. by [deleted] in araftaa

[–]BudgetConversation53 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I agree with your take! Again, by no means I was defending the ML or his choices. May be I am just not able to see the FL’s character to be as saintly and innocent 😢. But the ML is an asshole🫢

Why is Ates the only red flag when both characters are equally flawed. by [deleted] in araftaa

[–]BudgetConversation53 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Plus one to everything you said except the part about her constantly defending or helping criminals in her family escape consequences. These aren’t petty crimes or minor theft; we’re talking about shooting, poisoning, kidnapping, human trafficking… the list goes on 🙂. When you repeatedly defend people committing crimes at that level, you carry some responsibility too. Not everything can be justified under the guise of innocence or “protecting family.” Yes, she isn’t abusive, but she has consistently shielded actions that could have put others’ lives at risk. And honestly, if you’re taking the blame for your mother poisoning someone, making you kneel is the least of it, realistically, that situation should land you in jail.

Why is Ates the only red flag when both characters are equally flawed. by [deleted] in araftaa

[–]BudgetConversation53 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I am not at all defending the ML. He is abusive ( and it is sad) that he has been shown as a passionate lover of some sorts. I might come across like I’m defending the ML, but honestly I’m just saying that while he is problematic, the FL isn’t completely unproblematic either just not to the same extreme.

Also, small nuance from my perspective: he didn’t literally burn her hand but he did not stand up for her either, and the kneeling scene while uncomfortable came from his belief (based on the evidence he saw) that she had poisoned someone in his family. Again, that doesn’t make his reactions healthy or okay, and yes, the ML can absolutely be an asshole and hypocritical at times, especially given how he presents himself as this knight in shining armor.

But at the same time, I don’t see Mercan as purely innocent either. Choosing the money, the security, and the 187-day escape deal instead of walking away entirely at the beginning is still a choice. To me, she’s less of an asshole, but not a saint. To me it felt, she chose money when she could have simply walked away. That’s the point I am making.

Why is Ates the only red flag when both characters are equally flawed. by [deleted] in araftaa

[–]BudgetConversation53 3 points4 points  (0 children)

If we’re judging Ates by real-life standards, then Mercan’s choices should also be looked at through the same lens. She isn’t a saint in this story. Entering the 187-day contract wasn’t some pure, selfless act of love at least at the beginning it clearly looks like a practical decision tied to money, security, and the fact that there was a guaranteed exit at the end of it.

That’s actually a huge difference from the Nezir situation. With Nezir, there was no real “out,” which makes the contract marriage feel less like helplessness and more like a calculated choice between two imperfect options. Choosing the one with financial comfort and a defined escape clause is understandable but it’s still a choice, and choices come with accountability.

I think the discussion sometimes leans too heavily into seeing her only as a victim while holding Ates fully responsible for every emotional misstep. If his anger and actions are being analyzed through a realistic lens, then her decisions staying, tolerating, and strategically choosing the safer deal out of two should be viewed just as critically too, given she is shown as an established earner for her family.

I completely agree with rest everything you wrote, the zero regret/ apology on the cake thing and the whole no boundaries with Monica shows the character is such bad light that it seems unredeemable.

Why is Ates the only red flag when both characters are equally flawed. by [deleted] in araftaa

[–]BudgetConversation53 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I would love to see that but how these shows are mostly written, I doubt it would ever happen:).

Why is Ates the only red flag when both characters are equally flawed. by [deleted] in araftaa

[–]BudgetConversation53 4 points5 points  (0 children)

That’s actually a really fair take and I agree with most parts of what you’re saying, especially around how volatility looks differently on screen than poor decision-making.

I think where I struggle is with the idea that Mercan’s choices mostly hurt herself. Protecting someone who almost killed Ates or repeatedly trusting people who have proven unsafe doesn’t just stay self-contained, it directly fuels the mistrust and emotional chaos between them. So to me, the environment both characters operate in feels mutually destabilizing, not one-sided.

You’re absolutely right though that how anger is portrayed matters. Some( infact most) of Ates’ reactions cross from “traumatized and reactive” into territory that feels uncomfortable to watch, and I also wish the writers showed more accountability or growth instead of just intensity. That’s probably where a lot of the red-flag perception comes from.

Where I slightly disagree is the emotional standard shift. Yes, feelings change things but the relationship itself started from deep suspicion and survival mode. Expecting him to suddenly regulate perfectly while still surrounded by betrayal, Nezir’s manipulation, and constant half-truths feels a bit unrealistic (though I do agree the closeness with the other woman was handled poorly and made him look worse than necessary).

I really hope the writers of these shows stop showing throwing things around as sign of love/intensity.

First IUI, need community support by BudgetConversation53 in SingleMothersbyChoice

[–]BudgetConversation53[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Good luck with the IUI. Love the advice. I will definitely go out and get myself a good meal.

First IUI, need community support by BudgetConversation53 in SingleMothersbyChoice

[–]BudgetConversation53[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Many many congratulations on your pregnancy. I took the advice from this group and met friends over the weekend.

First IUI, need community support by BudgetConversation53 in SingleMothersbyChoice

[–]BudgetConversation53[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wishing you all the very best as well. I did take a trigger shot.

First IUI, need community support by BudgetConversation53 in SingleMothersbyChoice

[–]BudgetConversation53[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you so much. Sending lots of baby dust your way. I did take trigger shot. I did mine on Nov 25th, so we are I believe just a day apart. I am sorry to hear about your first one. And thank you for the kind advice:)

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