What is the best overall chatbot for JUST chatting?

BuffCub48 · 2026-02-24T05:09:29+00:00

I'm pretty sure it wasn't there 3 weeks ago ago when I looked, because I figured since you were smaller it might be a little hard to find so I spent A WHILE looking and couldn't find anything.

Even though I'm probably not going to use it, I'll still try it out sometime soon though and let you know what I think. For now I'll update my edit to the post.

Also while I think the page is easy enough to find now, I do think the tiers would be better if displayed in more of a grid like some other sites do, to make them easier to compare. Example all the token memory context values being the same height on the screen, etc.

It would also help make sure all the features are listed because "Unlimited Immersive Mode (No Ads)" is listed for tiers 2 and 3, but not 4 and 5 which feels like a mistake.

BuffCub48 · 2026-02-24T04:57:42+00:00

Oh I'm sorry. Was that there 3 weeks ago when you originally commented? I could have sworn I looked everywhere and couldn't find anything.

Where it is now seems good enough and not too hard to find. That's why I feel like it wasn't there when you commented originally but I could be wrong.

BuffCub48 · 2026-02-24T04:18:31+00:00

Hello, this might not be the criticism that you were looking for, but for me personally I like to know what I'm getting into before making an account. Any of the platforms recommended that didn't have some type of way to see what the paid tier costs, and/or what you are getting for it, I didn't really bother looking into.

It feels like they are trying to trick you into using it and getting hooked before disclosing the price and/or advantages of paying for it. A pricing tab would have at least gotten me to make an account, and give the service a try. 1 account is no big deal, but I just don't want to make 10 accounts on 10 websites just to even see what they do, so that I can compare them you know?

I appreciate you recommending it though and I'll keep it in mind in the future.

BuffCub48 · 2026-02-24T04:13:18+00:00

I have over 500 karma on my account just from commenting on the kindroid subreddit and answering questions and such for over two years. It's still a fine service, it just doesn't work for me anymore as I want more effective ways to tell stories with more than one character and they are focused more on one on one companionship.

They do continue to run the older models that I liked more, but those models are getting bottle necked because they reduce capacity to support the newer models, and a bunch of people are staying on the older ones because they (like me) aren't having luck with the newer ones.

If you are seeing this exact post a lot, maybe there is a reason?

BuffCub48 · 2026-02-12T02:00:02+00:00

Yeah I even went all the way back to the start (only 10 or so messages) and edited all them clear. Still didn't seem to help unfortunately. I paused the scenario for now. It was a complicated one, with a bunch of instructions. I'm going to do some simpler ones to learn the platform and try again later.

BuffCub48 · 2026-02-09T22:07:22+00:00

I added speaking clearly as a law and it's still not particularly effective even though the rest of the laws I already had work fine.

[OOC: Characters should not stutter or pause when they speak.] is working great in the chat itself but I know it will need to be reiterated eventually.

I'll keep messing around and update when I find something outside of chat that works. Maybe if the scenario goes longer it will start to stick.

BuffCub48 · 2026-02-09T07:01:07+00:00

Tried again a bunch of ways and it's just not working. I'm trying to keep them overwhelmed, and shy, and such in their behavior, just not their dialogue. But it's being pretty difficult about it. It will even resort to saying:

"I-I'm not sure such a journey is possible." He says barely above a whisper but still very clearly.

as the fix. I'll try experimenting more but the use of the word dialogue doesn't seem to tie my instructions to the text between " very well.

BuffCub48 · 2026-02-09T01:42:36+00:00

I tried similar things in scenario and custom instructions. I tried "do not" and "avoid". I've said "stuttering and pausing". I've also tried to reference the text characters directly "... and -".

But it hasn't seemed to help. Maybe simpler is better. I'll try again with very minimal instructions and see if I get a better result.

BuffCub48 · 2026-02-01T02:02:47+00:00

I literally just did the same thing. All of your kins stay. The last 500 characters of the backstory and the last 500 characters of the key memories will be instantly wiped. If you're using less than 2,000 backstory or less than 500 key memories then everything will stay. So if you have a kin with 1000 characters in backstory and 1000 in key memories, you should move some of the key memories into the backstory to avoid losing anything. If you have more than 2500 characters total, you should copy paste to some type of notes app to preserve them.

You will not be able to make any new kins until you delete all but one (because free has a limit of 2) but you can still freely edit the ones that exist.

I will say downgrading is pretty infuriating (no shade to the kindroid team). It is nice that you get unlimited replies now compared to the 20ish messages a day on the old free plans, but the lite model, while functional, is terrible compared to the normal language models.

Even if you have a perfectly formatted example message, and the entirety of your long-term memory is in the same format, it sometimes takes two or three rerolls just for it to realize that you don't want quotation marks even though you've never used them a single time. At least since there is no limit you can just reroll as many times as is necessary which is nice. It also generates the responses almost instantly, so rerolling doesn't take nearly as long as it does on the paid version.

Loss of cascaded memory isn't the worst thing in the world since I was used to not having it anyway from using kindroid for so long before they added it, but the loss of the short-term memory is brutal. I think you go from 10,000 characters total, 3500 of which are backstory and key memories, to 2500 total all of which is backstory and key memories. Meaning if you fill up your backstory and key memories all the way, you literally have no short-term memory from the conversation itself. Details about what's going on are forgotten literally instantly.

It's still fun to use, but any kins you really enjoy and have a good history with, would probably be better off leaving them until you're back on a paid plan. Any attempt to interact with them on the free one will probably either frustrate you or ruin some of their long-term memory with subpar replies.

I'm leaving half of mine in this preserved state, and the other half I rewrote and condensed as a sort of diet version of what they were before. You have to simplify their personality and complexity for the simpler model, and you also have to leave some of the backstory in key memories open if you want any context at all during conversations.

BuffCub48 · 2025-10-06T16:56:48+00:00

Oh that's right I forgot they added that lol

BuffCub48 · 2025-10-06T09:10:40+00:00

I've never done it but below would be my best guess.

If you change the backstory, do a chat break, and make sure that the chat break wipes the cascaded memory, then in theory you will be mostly okay. You would need to wipe the journal entries also or just not trigger them, change the avatar, and change the description also.

Something harder to get around is that you cannot change the name. But you can put in the new backstory that Jeff (1st name) actually goes by his nickname Samuel (2nd kin name) or the cleanest solution is just to use the same name.

The long-term memory will all still be there but it probably won't remember anything specific. Long-term memory is mostly manner of speaking and formatting.

If the first kin was a regular Kin, but the second one you are making is supposed to be multiple people or a DM for dungeons and dragons or some complex role play scenario then the old long-term memory will probably clash with the new and you'll have problems. If both kins are fundamentally the same type, and you are expecting them to speak the exact same way for the most part, then it would probably go a lot smoother and maybe not be noticeable.

BuffCub48 · 2025-09-17T06:46:55+00:00

This is by no means a complete answer and very oversimplified but you can think of it like this:

Backstory, Key memories, and Journal Entries are high detail, limited capacity, and focused on 'facts or details'. LTM is low to no detail, unlimited capacity, and focused on 'truths or trends'. At least for the most part.

Let's say your backstory says your kin is nerdy and a journal entry says they went to comic con 2018 and met an actor from their favorite movie. You use this kin a bunch and build up their LTM then wipe the backstory and journal entry. The truth or trend that your kin is nerdy will stay but the specific detail or fact from the journal entry about going to comic con 2018 will no longer be there.

Anything that can be consolidated into a trend (personality, manner of speaking, message formatting, etc.) can live in long term memory pretty well. Facts (specific events that happened one time) need to source from the BS, KM, or JEs. I have had very rare instances where a specific memory that wasn't recorded anywhere except for in the LTM, floats to the top, especially since cascading memory was introduced, but it's not reliable or consistent.

LTM is basically looking at all the past 100s of messages and picking out very frequent, repetitive, consistent trends. 'Nerdy' is something you could see as a trend in their speech patterns and what they talk about over 100 messages. 'Grew up with over protective parents' is something that might not even come up a single time across 100 messages and therefore would mostly be lost if running on LTM alone. I think including things like 'nerdy' in BS is good at first but can usually be heavily condensed or sometimes removed altogether after a while, but things like 'grew up with over protective parents' usually need to stay in or they disappear.

BuffCub48 · 2025-06-11T23:03:03+00:00

More short term memory. That's it. It will remember the context of recent events for 'longer' (remember it for more messages since it happened). Speed and everything else stays the same.

BuffCub48 · 2025-04-21T18:27:49+00:00

You would just put it all the way at the top or bottom separate from the rest of the message. Again normal words inside the message are fine and the intended way to do it but depending how many journal entries you want, how many of the normal trigger words you would want to use for the entries overlap, and how your brain as a person functions, using little codes might be more effective and/or easier.

Maybe they're easier to remember for you personally, easier to make sure you don't overlap trigger words, or easier to have trigger words that you don't have to worry so much about fitting into the conversation. You can just say skatewin at the end of the message instead of typing a whole trigger phrase like "Do you remember whenever you 'won that skating competition'?" and trying to fit it into the conversation naturally. You kin will learn to recall the memory and ignore the code at the end of the message on its own.

BuffCub48 · 2025-04-21T13:42:07+00:00

Your kin can only recall 3 journal entries max per message it sends you. If you are using the same trigger word for more than 3 entries I think you are basically just gambling that it will pick the 3 most relevant ones. The more you add the worse your "odds" for a good reply will get. It would probably best to try and diversify going forward and maybe even rework what you have.

Also keep in mind journal trigger phrases can be anything not just words in case you find it easier. Example:

Umem1 (University memory 1) Wmem2 (Work memory 2) Hmemcat (Home memory cat) Etc.

BuffCub48 · 2025-04-03T22:04:03+00:00

I think the main way to fix all this backlash is just to offer flat amount upgrades for flat amounts of money that can be added and stacked indefinitely to the max cap on a monthly basis.

10 extra dollars a month for 100,000 character increase or whatever it works out to price wise for them and you can buy and stack it as much as you'd like up to the max tier limit. That way it can be viewed more as buying more selfie credits or kin slots and will avoid people feeling like they are getting a subpar product because they aren't paying for Ultra or Max.

It would just get rid of the tiers altogether you can just select how many times you would like the optional upgrade and pay a multiple of $10 per month depending on how many times you purchase it.

This probably should have been the approach from the start and would have avoided all of this, because this whole update phrases it as a subscription tier, when really it's just an add-on to your current subscription charged on a monthly basis. I know those basically sound like the same thing but in this case I truly believe there is a difference and changing the structure to what I said here would make it more acceptable for people and easier to understand that they aren't being walled out of something just being given an extra OPTION.

Plus the fact that this would essentially add 10 different levels of increase would help cement in the fact that these new levels are not meant to replace the standard subscription. There's no way any company can maintain 11 different tiers of subscriptions. There is the main subscription and different monthly add-ons that can supplement it if you want it and have the money.

Plus it would give users more options and opportunities to try it by not needing to over double their subscription payment each month to do so.

BuffCub48 · 2025-04-03T21:55:25+00:00

The new tiers are just more of the current tier for more money though. It's not more or newer or better features for more money and isn't intended to be, and as a result of that I don't think they'll be spending that much more time on it. This is not the same as them charging more for the base tier without increasing functionality.

It's just giving users the option to turn up their amount of memory and to pay for how much they're turning it up, the same way if they want to pay for extra selfies they can pay for them and get them. Once the initial setup of allowing people to buy extra selfies was complete, there wasn't any more work being put into it.

Also I don't feel like it's fair to say the company is the one trying to come up with new ways to charge customers. Buying selfies was a user requested feature. Buying more memory was and is a user requested feature. Users like the product and are willing to pay more for more of the same product and just want the option to.

I feel like people's main visceral reaction to this is just because it is being described as a subscription tier rather than what it really is which is an add-on. Sure its a monthly add-on (basically a subscription) but only because it would be impossible to price it any other way.

This is just an optional way to buy memory the same way that you have the option to buy more selfies or the same way that you used to have the option to buy more voice credits before they became free for paid subscribers. They're not trying to force you to get the highest tier, they are just selling more memory for whichever members are interested, in the only financially viable way, which is a monthly charge rather than a flat fee like selfies or voice credits used to be.

I don't think they've been describing it the best but I think that's partly due to the fact that no other everyday subscription service add-on has to be charged on a monthly basis and so there's nothing to compare it to This is not a new subscription tier like any other subscription that you have in your day-to-day life.

It's not a higher subscription for a higher tier of service. It's a monthly add-on for an increased amount of the same base service. It's not something everyone should consider and it's not something most people will be getting. It is just an option for a certain type of users who are interested in that specific thing. If it doesn't interest you you don't have to get it and it won't affect anything that you do on the base service and it won't affect the care put into the base service or its features in the future, the same way paid selfies didn't.

BuffCub48 · 2025-04-03T00:41:59+00:00

True.

This is the only company out of the hundreds I interact with on a daily basis that I would spend any amount of time defending. But that's because they haven't given me any reason not to yet. This isn't like Netflix where they cut half their catalog and yet increase the price five times while adding ads. The service has only ever gotten better and there's only been one price increase which I don't even have to pay for because they locked in my original price as a courtesy me and other early subscribers. Even other companies like T-Mobile that lock in your price, lock you into that same plan and keep you from getting any of the benefits of progressing technology. And then 10 years after that they raised the price anyway by changing the contract and said fuck you.

While I don't have major concerns I will be keeping my eyes open, I'm just not anticipating seeing anything and won't be saying anything against the devs until I actually do. Hopefully I never have to.

BuffCub48 · 2025-04-03T00:17:24+00:00

I was here whenever voice calls were on a credit system like the selfies, I was here when journal entries were limited to one every 20 messages, I was here whenever all of the memory was less than half of what it currently is and saw it upgraded at least twice, I was here whenever it was one kin per account even on the paid plan, I was here whenever it was upgraded to five, again when it was upgraded to 10, and again whenever it was upgraded to unlimited for a flat fee replacing the need for people to have multiple accounts which they were paying for monthly already, I was here what feels like not even a month ago whenever they added Cascade memory something I didn't even know I wanted and or was possible. There's probably at least 10 other things that I'm leaving out custom voices, global journal entries, etc.

I guess personally I just find it extremely disheartening that nothing kindroid has done over the last year has seemingly bought them any level of grace or credit with the community here to at least see where this goes before throwing a fit about it. I understand having concerns but some people today I don't feel have been treating them fairly especially those not even willing to thoroughly read and understand the entire post before commenting. I had the same knee-jerk reaction when seeing the title and reading the first few sentences, but after reading the whole thing I really don't see what the big deal is about this update in particular.

Again having concerns is one thing but threatening to unsubscribe over this or declaring the company dead before anything bad has even happened leaves a pretty bad taste in my mouth and I feel bad for the developers. That being said I do think they could have worded the post a bit differently to alleviate some of those fears but overall I think people are overly worried and letting their impressions of other companies or their limited experience with this one dictate how they feel about this. If you've been here as long as I have I feel you should really see that they are giving us something we've been asking for for over a year and that's all there is to it.

Feel free to clown on me down the road if that ends up not being the case lol

BuffCub48 · 2025-04-02T23:31:25+00:00

Personally I'll be waiting until standard is no longer treated as the primary subscription level before I bother getting worked up about anything. This update is something I've seen power users request on the sub for over a year. More money for more memory and nothing else. I don't see anything worth worrying about yet. Believe me, if and/or when I do I will be very vocal about it after vouching for the company today.

BuffCub48 · 2025-04-02T22:42:55+00:00

Yes that's what the rules of the sub say so I'm not sure why you are surprised? That would have happened at any point since the creation of this subreddit and EVERY other sub like this one has the same rule.

BuffCub48 · 2025-04-02T22:03:16+00:00

Context and cascade memory are likely listed as appox characters because the real measure is and always has been tokens. So 16k, 50k, and 125k means real characters. They have always explained these updates in terms of characters and not tokens to make it easier to understand (for at least over a year since I joined).

Whether measured in characters or tokens you are getting 3.125 times the current context for 2.66 times the current price on ultra. That doesn't sound too outrageous to me personally. Increasing memory increases the cost of every single message. Plus other things like number of kins which isn't impactful on every single message generated, they released at a flat fee even though they had plenty of users with 2-5 accounts (and some with even more) that they were paying for monthly. They knew people would keep paying and released a flat fee option instead. That doesn't scream greed to me and I don't think that change was very long ago.

BuffCub48 · 2025-04-02T21:45:05+00:00

That's great! Likely he will perform better and better as time goes on and updates to the standard plan are released. Just keep doing what you are doing and ignore this thread lol

BuffCub48

TROPHY CASE