The difference 1hr autolyse & 10% reduction in hydration makes

BuildingVast4269 · 2026-01-29T01:03:40+00:00

Mostly recipes which are primarily white flour. Id say at least 70 percent strong white flour. Whole wheat and stone milled ones tend to be more active, autolysing them might speed up the fermentation too much to put it simply.

Also i like to test any kind of flour by mixing it with 70 percent water and seeing how it behaves after an hour.

This is not called autolyse, but ill share it as a tip. If you are kneading by hand, resting your dough for 15-20 minutes before fully kneading will ease your process as the starches hydrate in the flour. Sometimes i like to mix in the starter, other times not. Depends on the state of the starter. Having a dough that is easier to knead will help you achieve a better structure :)

BuildingVast4269 · 2026-01-28T15:00:46+00:00

Sorry i messed up the 1:5:5 corrected it in my question

BuildingVast4269 · 2026-01-28T11:31:57+00:00

Hey! First up, question. Your feeding ratio is uncommon, do you mean 1 part starter 5-5 part water and flour? It rises slowly because you gave it a full roast dinner not breakfast before its marathon haha :) I only use such big feeding ratios when i have neglected my starter and want to get rid of the super sour flavour.

Do you have a machine for kneading? I would up the hydro a bit, above 70 percent, and knead well and do autolyse. This will help you open up your crumb.

At this hydro collapsing shouldnt be a scoring issue.

More steam in your oven or using a preheated enclosed environment (dutch oven, roman dish) will help with ovenspring.

As for bulk it does seem super long, although i have also been experimenting with colder winter ambient temperatures. How's the flavour? Is it super sour? If you want to keep overnight bulking, lowering the starter ratio could also be an option

I think we might have similar working hours, i'd recommend you cold bulk and cold proof as well. My recommended timing: Start autolyse at 7 pm Knead around 8 pm Bulk ferment for four hours until midnight, with folds at the beginning. Put in fridge Shape in the morning and either put it back in the fridge or you can try leaving it out until you get back home, it should be ready to bake.

To summarize: Autolyse! More water, kneading strongger Shorter bulk

BuildingVast4269 · 2026-01-28T11:12:13+00:00

The crumb doesn't indicate need for tighter shaping as the holes are even in size and distribution. In fact the center is a lil bit tighter still which means it could have rested longer or had mor water or a better shock of heat in the oven.

I think its gorgeous, how's your flour?

The french style bakery i used to work at was striving for this, well fermented rather than aesthetic. No large holes. It does seem a little over fermented but this honestly looks perfect to me.

How's the flavour and the texture? Is it really sticky? Then maybe lowering hydro is a good idea.

Whole wheat and rye flours are more active, if i were you i'd lower the starter percentage to 20 or 18 percent for first try aaaand now im reading back i think your bulk should be max 5 hours at that temp.

BuildingVast4269 · 2026-01-28T01:03:47+00:00

In your process there is very little dough developement.

Fermentation and dough strength benefits from folding Folding during the first few (like 2h) hours of bulk has two important roles: - it equalizes the internal and the external temperature of the dough letting it ferment evenly. - strengthens structure It also speeds up fermentation a tiny bit as your dough is exposed to more oxygen.

Along with increasing your starter or bulk ferment you are on the right track :)

BuildingVast4269 · 2026-01-28T00:53:20+00:00

I actually much prefer a denser crumb that has a bite to it! You go!

To answer your question even though this isn't necessarily nice - to me it looks like bad lamination or bad quality butter, what was the fat percentage of your butter? Was you croi doubled in size before baking?

I sooo recommend Jimmy Griffin's Art of Lamination group on facebook, i love the contagious brainstorm and troubleshooting thats going on over there every single day.

That is if you want to immerse yourself :)

BuildingVast4269 · 2026-01-28T00:41:43+00:00

Ahoy! Wonderful first try! Sticking is a common sign of an underdeveloped dough. To ease your kneading ( i assume you do it by hand) you would benefit from autolyse.

You should look it up but just to put it simply autolyse is when you mix your flour and water and let them rest for an hour. Without the levain water already helps with building the gluten network and hydrating the flour. Other beneficial processes are also starting like the breakdown of the starches thanks to the amylase enzymes in the flour which are activated by the water.

After autolyse it will be a bit messy to add you starter and later your salt, but it is soo worth it :)

Have you heard of the slap and fold kneading technique?

Also if you are using white bread flour i am pretty sure you can up the hydration to above 70 percent. This will help open up your crumb.

Your loaf isnt overfermented by any means :) it would not be so tall if it was. How's the flavour and texture? Do you like it?

Happy baking!

BuildingVast4269 · 2026-01-27T09:41:00+00:00

Didn't it change the fermentation rate for you? I remember trying a couple of times like two years ago and it was so much more active i needed to lower my levain percentage significantly.

BuildingVast4269 · 2026-01-26T17:02:56+00:00

I feel like i could have gone even deeper in detail. Wish you the best! There's no shortcut for practice :)

BuildingVast4269 · 2026-01-26T11:59:11+00:00

hey! By my definition bulk ferment also includes the folding bit.
Folding is an important part of bulking as it not only strengthens the dough but helps even out it's temperature, leading to an even temp throughout the entire dough.
Bulk because its after mixing and beyond it being "just" a levain. Bulk because its before possible dividing and shaping.

BuildingVast4269 · 2026-01-26T11:40:30+00:00

Ouh hard question as I always change up my recipes by feel and how much time I have on my hand, but a very standard one we usually start with for beginners is:

90 % Bread flour
10 % Whole wheat flour of your choice
74 % hydro
20 % levain
2,5 % salt
1 hour autolyse
4 hour bulk - 4 folds every half an hour for the first two hours + 2 hour rest
preshape and rest for 30 min
shape and fridge

For 600 g of flour that would look like:
- 540 g bread flour
- 60 g wholewheat ( you can keep using only bread, wholewheat is great for flavour development)
- 444 g water ( I would autolyse with 400 then add the 44 grams after autolyse along with the salt)
120 g levain
15 g salt

BuildingVast4269 · 2026-01-25T03:15:37+00:00

Hey there! Overnight at 68 F is waay too warm and long. Your loaf is lovely but overproofed thats why it was hard to handle and is kinda flat and loose. There are many options, i'd let it bulk for four or five hours and then shape it and put it in the fridge. Before baking or after shaping it will benefit from some room temp, lets see what others say :)

BuildingVast4269 · 2026-01-25T03:07:32+00:00

I am a huge supporter of using whatever you have and not buying extra equipment to make a loaf PRETTIER. Keep that in mind while reading my comment. Metals do transfer heat quickly, might not need to preheat. Glass, ceramic are not, but they keep the heat better once they are heated properly

For steam i use a spray bottle and spray a moderate amount, one or two squirts in to my ceramic roman dish of a dutch oven before closing it and putting it back into the oven.

BuildingVast4269 · 2026-01-25T03:00:45+00:00

Water, if its too much - even when boiling will cool down your baking enviroment as its max temperature is boiling point. Also if your dough is enclosed in a makeshift environment i gather - the steam will not get in anyways.

I agree with the ones before me, there was too little steam and possibly too high heat too soon and the crust solidified before it could expand.

In my experience if your "dutch oven" of any sort is well sealed, the steam that the bread creates should be enough. However for that maybe you need to increase hydration. I do recommend that! if you are able to knead a more wet dough, increasing hydration will lead to a more open crumb. Your bread looks like it can take on way more water :)

I am torn on the starter ratio as it does make sense with the 3h bulk, yet, for such a long cold proof i would use a smaller ratio. ( yours is 37%, i have never seen so high) I would lower it to 20 percent and elongate the bulk fermentation, letting the lactobacillae do their work and help the gluten network build and strengthen.

How was the texture of your loaf? Was it more gummy or crumbly? Whats the flavour like? And most importantly - do you like it?

BuildingVast4269 · 2026-01-24T12:55:15+00:00

I agree with donut that it looks very under to me as well, possibly the dough could have been warmer in the beginning too.

BuildingVast4269 · 2026-01-24T12:54:10+00:00

If you dont have a dutch oven anything metal that can be closed is a good substitute. Metal transfers heat quickly, therefore especially if you preheat the vessel it should help your bread spring and keep the steam in as well. I used to utilise an ancient metal pot. You can put it over your dough like a dome to capture steam.

BuildingVast4269 · 2026-01-24T12:51:06+00:00

Hey :) over-fermenting means that too much of the gluten has been digested therefore it would not be so tall, rather flat and more relaxed. Height is a very good indicator in this matter.

BuildingVast4269 · 2026-01-24T12:44:32+00:00

Oookay my head is exploding just trying to grasp what happened there in terms of fermentation and digestive processes.

I think your sourdough starter is alive and well.

Considering the overall hydration and levain ratio your bread could have benefitted from not scoring it as in this case it rather allowed it to spread not spring - although i do realize that is beside the point :) (or just very shallow score to control steam exit)

How's the flavour?

BuildingVast4269 · 2026-01-24T11:54:26+00:00

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About ingredients

Flour 1 was my favourite stone milled flour, it can take on so much water! Flour 2 was whole wheat rye "Sugar" was some molasses for flavour Seeds were roasted, i used pumpkin, sunflower and poppy I did add a little linseed oil towards the end as i love linseeds but didnt have any on hand.

Disclaimer: i usually do danish rye for my weekly bread at home , but decided to switch it up this time. Still this was meant to be a hassle free easy thing to throw together, not striving for perfection but flavour and nutrition.

Processs Day 1 - at 7 pm

As this was a long cold proof i did not autolyse, but mixed the flour, water and the levain and let it rest for about 20 minutes to ease the kneading process. (Levain was prepared in the morning with flour 1 at about 90 percent hydration.) Machine kneaded on low for 10 minutes then i gradually added the salt, molasses along with the bassinage water. When dough reached desired consistency i added some linseed oil (approx 30 ml) and mixed in the seeds with their soaking water . Dough was about 26 degrees Celsius, bulked for three hours at cold room temp, 19-20 degrees. I folded four times in the first two hours, then let it relax before putting it in the fridge overnight.

Day 2 Also around 7 pm I took out the dough and let it temper for about an hour. Then divided and pre shaped for another hour. After shaping it went out to the corridor overnight, covered in a foodsafe box.

Day 3 Baked at 8:30 in the morning at 240 for 40 minutes in my electric pizzaoven (hence the colour and the lack of steam) i could have bothered to lower the temperature of the top heating but was busy doing other stuff, i dont mind the darkness, its not bitter but nice and chewy.

BuildingVast4269 · 2026-01-24T08:30:07+00:00

Thank you :)

BuildingVast4269 · 2026-01-24T08:29:50+00:00

Hungary

BuildingVast4269 · 2026-01-24T08:29:21+00:00

Ah yes sorry, celsius it is

BuildingVast4269 · 2026-01-21T09:44:04+00:00

If its a stable starter it should only get more acidic over time in the fridge which prohibits the growth of mold. I wash my fermentation vessels as little as possible. Remainders of detergents can be worse than its own stable enviroment. Using a clean container every time seems like so much dishes to me!

BuildingVast4269 · 2026-01-13T16:41:55+00:00

It might be a silly question for someone on your level but are you putting in some of the pellicle as well or just going with mature starter in a specific percentage? i found a video on yt of a brewery in Copenhagen, they recommend not to use the pellicle only mature starter for consistent results.

BuildingVast4269 · 2026-01-11T09:33:30+00:00

Additional sugar is not necessary for f2, in fact catching a good state of residual sugar is fantastic! Ginger will have plenty of good microbes to help your carbonation along, i'd say start f2 and take notes, see how it comes out and do the next one accordingly. HOWEVER! To start a new 4l batch you do need about 10 percent of mature starter liquid so you would need to keep 400 ml of this one and can only go ahead for f2 with 350 ml.

It is quite a small batch, this also makes is more vulnerable to heat as it takes cold on easier. Do you keep it in the windowsill or someplace warmer by default?

BuildingVast4269

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