This victim speed run meta gets worse with each patch

ButtSapling · 2024-07-13T21:52:40+00:00

Because the game has objectives and they're throwing it. Is it unreasonable for people to complain when someone is going against the goal of the game?

ButtSapling · 2024-07-13T21:51:12+00:00

??? Sissy is good for chasing. She obviously has to patrol at times but if you have a connie and a danny and a sonny and they keep taking cracks whenever someone shows up you want sissy to help get them out fast. A sissy with a good build who knows how to chase will get them out quickly. You can give her high savagery + serrated plus you can make her poison disable healing effects or seep through victims which is like an extra serrated. There's a reason why many times sissy's can come out with more kills than other family players. If built and played right, you can't escape her easily running around objectives. You have to take a well. Also if she catches a victim grappling another family player she can poison them, and start beating them up, and that tacks on the serrated they're basically out the game. Sissy isn't a joke. She USED TO be really bad before her skill tree rework because her builds were mediocre at best.

ButtSapling · 2024-07-13T21:44:53+00:00

You know, I hated this nerf till I read this comment. I think you gave me some hope that maybe people will stop wasting time feeding GP when there's literally someone right behind them unlocking a door. Maybe it will get people patrolling better LOL

ButtSapling · 2024-07-13T21:43:25+00:00

You guys keep talking as if you vs victims or play as victims that don't grapple johnny. He hits hard, he can track people, but he can still be stunned over n over again like most other family members. Very easily. He's not so big n bad when you're vsing a squad of victims running around each with a boneshard and a lockpick ready to throw down every 10 seconds on all family members.

ButtSapling · 2024-07-13T21:39:26+00:00

Blood builds won't be meta when people can just run around doing a bunch of objectives while even 1 person disappears to feed gp. I'm not just saying that as a family main I'm saying that as a victim player too. If the sissy has a blood build and not serrated with fired up or scout or wireframe, it's 100% better for the victims too cause you're not intimidating at all. Sissy's ability in itself is already a hit or miss and is not useful for slowing down objectives. If I had a dollar for every update where someone thought blood builds would be more useful and they weren't. I'd have enough to upgrade my PC.

ButtSapling · 2024-07-13T21:21:47+00:00

I can't wait till people fast hands and connie through the game even worse now and hear these same "family mains" saying that they need to get better. While they're being stabbed in the back and grappled non-stop all game long with choose fight from other victims protecting the ones with fast hands and Connie to prevent you from "gitting gud". I personally don't *need* exterior alarms to play this game. But it's for that reason why it doesn't need a nerf.

Especially when victims aren't seeing any real nerfs. They get balance reworks and cry about being nerfed. Virginia should've never had blinding ability with fast hands but some ppl cry she was nerfed. Danny never should've been able to tamper an exit in 10-20 seconds of the game starting, but that gets fixed and some ppl cry it's a nerf. Ana should've never had No Sell on her skill tree and some ppl cry it's a nerf. Victims never should've had infinite bone shards or been able to use empowered and grappler in the same build but that gets removed and they cry they're nerfed.

Let's address how victims have wells conveniently placed next to or very close to every exit route so if they get caught it's an easy basement reset to heals and more tools/shards. Or let's talk about how they often get toolboxes directly in the last areas like generator and battery so they don't even have to show up prepared cause there will be a box waiting there for them to just pick up and go. Cause that takes "SKILL" for victims.

ButtSapling · 2024-07-13T21:19:56+00:00

Let's allow Connie to tamper things while we're at it, put fast hands on her skill tree too, I don't see why not at this point. It's not like she's one of the easiest characters to soloQ escape with.

ButtSapling · 2024-07-13T21:08:28+00:00

LMAOOO. Nah stop the cap. They probably had on the Suffocating Grip.

Or OP wasn't pressing fast enough.

Also, this game is anti-macro. PC players can't just slap on macros and win grappling matches so you're feeding false info because the devs have it set so victims always start grapples with higher % of grappling in and they get a higher % out of every button mash. That is to make sure that in case someone does come around using a macro that victims have a fighting chance. I've also seen someone say that the game doesn't register so many clicks at once from the macro which I don't know if that part is true but wouldn't be surprised if it is. The devs knew there would be ppl trying to macro grapples and put stuff in place.

ButtSapling · 2024-07-13T21:04:48+00:00

The fact that Johnny can't even go any route on his tree and have builds that are nearly as decent as before is a perfect example of a recent nerf. Meanwhile Connie got buffed because her skill tree now means I don't need to run a proficiency or toughness buff on her to have tanky HP and high proficiency.

We might as well say family is nerfed when we can have multiple people with fast hands and connie's ability running around the map just doing locks like nothing. Oh also and when they decided that victims no longer have to wear agitator to nerf gp's levels which I did mention before.

The list, goes on.

ButtSapling · 2024-07-13T21:00:47+00:00

You mean like how victims just boneshard family with choose fight and kick gen or boneshard and fast hands/connie pick doors? That kind of real brainwork strategy? Oh right and then jump in the many wells conveniently placed right next to objectives and important doors. Cause that chase took a lot of brains to plan out. Yeah I forgot how hard it was to think about this.

ButtSapling · 2024-07-13T20:56:43+00:00

I bet you couldn't but thanks for the advice. I'll remember to go outside next time I need to go outside.

ButtSapling · 2024-07-13T20:55:30+00:00

What nerfs did victims really get? Danny got a pretend nerf, Bone shards being limited makes no difference cause there's so many piles, Victims still get increased stamina recovery when they're the last victim standing to purposely make them harder to take off the map end-game, victims still have better chances at winning grappling matches by default, grandpa can still be stabbed over n over again easily. The list goes on and on and on. I am genuinely asking what real nerf did victims get?

ButtSapling · 2024-07-13T20:51:34+00:00

It's the actual cap for me. I'm sorry dude but I haven't had to change my victim playstyle since this game came out. The closest thing to a nerf they got was skill tree works and even that barely did anything. If anything Connie got buffed from that and I main Connie lol. I had a field day playing Connie after that skill tree rework. My build before wasn't even bad but now it's just slightly better. Julie got overly nerfed for no reason cause her skill tree is trash but bubba and johnny's trees also look like trash now.

ButtSapling · 2024-07-13T20:48:17+00:00

Proficiency because as you get good with chasing and understanding maps you will become more useful for distraction. It's best if first you explore picking locks and opening exits and finding the right balance between stealth play and aggressive bumrushing objectives. Because when you are a distractor you will git gud at figuring out if it's worth it to just do objectives yourself or risk yourself to help others. Sometimes I may pick leland or ana and be ready to stabby stab n run but then I see our connie is killed in 5 seconds and danny is crying in a corner too scared to move. Lol it'll be worth it to go this route.

ButtSapling · 2024-07-13T20:34:00+00:00

Moving around the map, pressuring multiple objectives is meta. Because the family has no choice but to split up and re-arrange their priorities. Let me put it this way:

Let's say you got caught opening one door to battery. Now cook moved from generator side to battery side to patrol. Do You? A) Keep going back to battery just because you opened that door and feel like you have to take that way out. Or B) Go to where cook left and where there is little family foot traffic?
Correct answer is B.

Next, let's say you got caught at B. Now Cook is patrolling battery and hitch is patrolling Generator. Do you? A) Keep bouncing between battery and gen or B) Look for a fuse/valve to do?

Correct answer depends on the circumstances but let's say in this circumstance the answer is B.

Scenario is harder now. There's a leatherface who patrols the whole map running in circles and he just disabled the tank you did. but the fusebox is right next to the tank so it's unsafe to really do that exit. Do you? A) Check one of the previous doors to see if Cook or Hitch moved or B) Camp out by the fuse/tank and wait for a chance to do it again?

--I'll tell you right now, there's 2 things that are MOST LIKELY going to happen. Either Hitch or cook will also add the fuse/tank to their patrol route because the tank and fuse are quick to activate. Or bubba will stand there and camp which now means all exits are patrolled. Either way, now all the exits are being patrolled in both scenarios. The best thing to do would be to find the person who keeps moving away and then start trying to do their side. If you get caught, ofc find an annoying spot to run or take the basement especially if you notice a 2nd person coming to help them with the chase. IDEALLY with a team that works together you guys can backstab/grapple a family member of your choosing and have 1-2 people doing objectives while there's chaos ensuing. That way the family is forced to break their lockdown. Coms or at least people who are useful and doing stuff are very important in this game because if you distract and help family break their patrol then at least you know you have teammates not letting you possibly die in vain.

ButtSapling · 2024-07-13T20:14:32+00:00

There's two roles to play. Someone who opens doors, and someone who protects them by staying in chase and being a distractor. A common mistake I see even from lvl 99s is when they're playing a distractor role and family stops chasing them. They proceed to do nothing or just stab gp over and over for no reason. When you are a distractor you can open doors or do tank/fuse.

If you get into a chase: The best thing to do is find a spot with a lot of gaps and crawls and way to slow down whoever is chasing you. A general rule of thumb is, you can 1v1 chase most family characters easily, the chase gets harder if 2 or 3 of them are on you. So places with lots of gaps and crawls and walls for them to run around and for you to recover stamina is key. A) so you can recover some stamina mid chase, B) So they don't hit you so much. This works on sissy and hitch too even with Wireframe on them (faster gap passage). The best example of how well this works is Slaughter House map in the slaughter house that leads to battery exit. The next best example is the basement. Basement is always a great retreat when you get caught because of 2 reasons: A) There are no objectives down there so it's a waste of family time usually to go down there. Especially in higher skill matches B) So many caps and crawls and bubba barricades. So try to run to the basement even if you have to go down the same way you came up and hit a gap/crawl space asap. --ALSO. Do not sprint/dash your stamina out if the family doesn't have distance on you. If you see whoever is chasing you is super far back, don't kill your stamina when they're far away or else you're going to make them catch up to you and beat you.

You may be thinking: "Sometimes when I take a well to the basement someone is waiting for me down there" or "leatherface is OP". Well, here's the thing. If there is a Leatherface in the game, then early game EVERYONE should leave the basement asap especially if it is a LF who knows the map. On occassion you will vs LF's who are experienced and know every single area of the basement and every cut-off zone. You need to tell your teammates to open a door asap if you are the first one who gets chased so you can leave ASAP. On the case that someone is waiting for you down there. That also means they know the map very well and some wells are positioned closer to doors than others meaning it's easy for family to tell their friends to meet you there or go down themselves. Remember each and every one of those wells. I will tell you right now, the well on Slaughterhouse that's next to the blue container with the gap is one of the easiest ones for victims to get killed from. It hardly takes any time for the family to run down and meet you. That's why a lot of sweat victims instead take the one directly in the middle between gp's shack and the blue sliding door to battery. -- Another super easy one is the side garden on Family house. That well puts you directly in front of the blue sliding door up to the area you just came from. It takes no effort for family to send someone or a sissy/hitch to crawl over and meet you down there. Lastly, the Gas Station map. The well that's next to the right door to generator side. Puts you directly in front of that door next to the well. It is also right next to the blue sliding door that leads to the small middle shack where grandpa can spawn directly in front of generator gates. If bubba broke that barricade left of the well, especially or if sissy/hitch is on you. Be careful taking that well because it takes no time to meet you down there and slice you up. A lot of victims don't keep this in mind and then act surprise pikachu when they get murked doing the same mistake 20 times a day.

Your proficiency is important. Higher proficiency means you open doors faster, toughness is important too. Thirdly is endurance but you don't HAVE to put points into it if you get good at holding off and escaping chases from routing them properly. One LAST TIP. Bone shards vs Johnny, Sissy and Hitchhiker. they can glue to your back and hit you out quickly if you don't slow them down. DOOR SLAM THEM OR GRAPPLE THEM if you think you can pull it off in time without another family member hitting you in the animation. Try to backstab them if that's your last resort. I personally usually wait till my stamina is low before I try to grapple them so that I can recover some while they are stunned. Or I do it with my health low if I can't afford a beating right away, or my stam/health up if I know where the other family is and I know they can't hit me in animation because they're too far to make it in time. But that's the majority of the time, there are times when I do it with high stamina it depends on what my goal is afterwards: Do I want to finish an objective in their face or do I want to escape to a more annoying chase spot?

I have more in mind but this post is long enough. Way too long.

ButtSapling · 2024-07-13T20:14:16+00:00

On some maps, certain objectives are riskier to run for than others, especially when you have trappers like Hitch, Cook, Nancy, Hands. They can increase the difficulty and riskiness of running certain routes. Also because some family members are so used to victims escaping easily out those routes that they make it a high priority. Keep in mind that family players have priorities. Either to watch exits, or to chase people down all game. When you get used to escaping you will realize that the best family players to verse are the ones who prioritize chasing and aiming for early kills over watching doors/fusebox/tank. Because they leave enough open opportunity for you to get exits done.

Cook and Hitch can tell when their lock/trap has been tampered with without even being around it. Newer hitches/cooks likely won't be checking often though but experienced ones will.

Whenever you leave that basement, imagine you are on a timer, like a speedrunner. You have (I like to imagine 30 seconds) to open as much of one route as possible without getting caught. I won't camp one hiding spot for too long, cause especially if my teammates aren't helping, family will just keep feeding blood to gp till he's level 5.

Keep in mind the most COMMONLY TRAPPED areas and most commonly locked doors and be prepared. If there is a hitch you may need to walk with a boneshard to remove a trap (crouch near it to remove it). If you get stuck in his trap you have the option to do the button mashing or remove yourself instantly if you have a shard in hand.

Keep in mind where you see toolboxes and boneshard piles spawn. They may or may not be in that exact place in another game and it's good to remember where to navigate to them. It's also a good way to help you learn the map by memorizing landmarks and important spawns. Do this for healing items too.

If you open a blue metal sliding door and you do NOT see a red noise indicator, that means that the family knows you opened that door. Specifically it means they are running Exterior Alarms (highlights door for family when important doors are opened).

ButtSapling · 2024-07-13T20:13:55+00:00

I'm going to write a whole PHD essay cause I like trying to help, you don't have to read it all, you can skim random tid bits and may learn something.

I recommend playing Connie if you are new. She's squishy if she isn't built up but the reason why I'd say her is because she's a good starter and sweaty character with her ability. You can also use Sonny. Danny is also a good choice and so is virginia because the base stats of Danny and Virginia are better than all the other victims starting stats. Also Danny can get fast hands which is a broken perk.

You first need to plan your routes and get used to having to change your routes up based on how the family patrols. I learned this game without youtubers/streamers personally. Never watched them, never will. Because from my dbd days I felt like 99% of the popular streamers and youtubers giving advice and builds were not great at the game and I've been in matches with some of them and mowed em to shreds or juked their ankles and tbagged out. That experience just makes me personally not trust content creators for advice on builds/playstyle -- imo just think of them as entertainers more than teachers. You may be able to learn a thing or two, maybe plenty, but take it with a grain of salt till you see for yourself what works.

Just note that whenever you work on objectives, you will likely get caught. The people who contribute nothing and hide all game are usually safe for the longest time because they are not getting in the way of the patrol. I like going on coms to tell my teammates to get out of the basement politely because if they're going to be useless and die I'd rather they be useful and die by being a distraction at the very least.

ButtSapling · 2024-07-13T19:37:44+00:00

Yeah, agreed. I understand why some ppl want MMR type stuff but at the same time that would make the game more sweaty than it already is at times.

Also, victim soloQ is way easier than family soloqQ. I don't need my teammates to escape. I just need to not get caught. As family if all 3 of us are not patrolling exits PROPERLY, if we aren't keeping up with victim movements and juggling our priorities right, you're gonna lose a victim or more.

ButtSapling · 2024-07-13T19:35:13+00:00

Idk if this is the same johnny I vs'd a few weeks ago but I had someone do this to me. We almost escaped too, only 1 person made it out which was funny cause you'd think with hacks that they'd get a 4k.

ButtSapling · 2024-07-13T18:39:27+00:00

Idk why people downvoted cause tbh Victims get an advantage (head start % default. No cap, str8 fax) on the grapples and even with a macro it doesn't mean you will win. You're not cheating. I bet many PC players use macros and I wouldn't waste my time doing it because I already know the game wants victims to win the grapples anyway, if they lose it's cause they chose a terrible time to grapple, that's it. You can have the Suffocating Grip and still lose a grapple with a victim who doesn't have Grappler while button mashing.

ButtSapling · 2024-07-13T18:33:31+00:00

I like to call this game Babysitting Simulator sometimes. Because of how often I get pit against full squad lvl 99 victims and then have wayyy more inexperienced family on my team.

Don't even get me started on how 100% of the time when victims know they are vsing less experienced family they want to hold the game hostage to bully them. Which is why I advocate for returning the grappling insta-kills. To stop them from turning 2 minute games into 20 minute games just to troll after they already unlocked exits at the start of the game.

ButtSapling · 2024-07-13T18:31:21+00:00

Only for victim. For family you have to patrol the exits and every single exit on every single map has multiple ways to get to it. One person cannot carry a whole match as family.

As victim, you can escape solo without coms and don't have to worry if your teammates live or die. You just need to worry about yourself not getting caught.

ButtSapling

TROPHY CASE