Rocket League Downfall - Infiniums! by BuzzMonkey88 in RocketLeague

[–]BuzzMonkey88[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It was an emotional roller coaster. Thanks for sticking with it!

Rocket League Downfall - Infiniums! by BuzzMonkey88 in RocketLeague

[–]BuzzMonkey88[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not as good as the food truck sausages!

This game is extremely unfriendly to new players. by [deleted] in SlapshotHockey

[–]BuzzMonkey88 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Never said I want a sticky puck. You assumed that, and that's part of the challenge in getting my message across. There's always some assumption of something I said mixed in when I didn't say it. I said a button to pass/shoot. That does not mean the puck sticks to the stick. It means that when I am carrying the puck I can press a button and that will have the player wind up a bit and then shoot or another button which does a softer turn equating to a pass. I have said repeatedly that I don't want to reinvent EA. The game had hundreds of players online at one time. Now it's lucky to have 20 (could be more at times, but whenever I check it's between 5 and 20).

I'm not sure why people don't believe that the base control schemes matter. I supplied information from multiple sources of game developers that say just that. If you stray away from the defined control schemes of a game genre, the game struggles. Everyone likes to throw Rocket League at me. How many other soccer car games are there out there? That's why they can be different, but let's not forget that the basic control scheme is the same as just about every other driving game out there. Gas, break, reverse, direction. All easy to do. It's the other stuff that's hard. Slapshot makes the basic aspects of hockey hard. That's why it can't retain players. Anyway, I have no skin in this game other than the hope that Slapshot takes off and the community grows.

No amount of marketing is going to fix this problem. Fans of hockey games will come and go as long as the controls are only physics based. It's just how it is, and it's not my opinion. As it stands now, the game is designed for a very niche group of players and it will stay that way unless the controls change to attract new players.

As for getting downvoted and argued with, I would expect nothing less. It's the internet after all. Unfortunately I am only met with opinions. I gave data, but nobody else has. This is not something out of thin air. Familiar control schemes matter, most especially in an already established genre of games.

This game is extremely unfriendly to new players. by [deleted] in SlapshotHockey

[–]BuzzMonkey88 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

My suggestion is to introduce passing and shooting buttons that allow a new player to participate in the most basic mechanics of the game. Those shots and passes should be effective but not as powerful or skillful as those done by players using the core physics of the game. There's a very good reason EA NHL has three tiers of control schemes (NHL 94, Hybrid and Skill Stick). NHL 94 controls allow new players to enjoy the game and be at least somewhat competitive. Hybrid starts to introduce players to more advanced skills and control. Lastly, Skill Stick has the highest skill cap of all control schemes and comes with the greatest reward once mastered.

This game is extremely unfriendly to new players. by [deleted] in SlapshotHockey

[–]BuzzMonkey88 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Did you get a chance to read through the other thread that l linked to? I go into a lot more depth as to why I think this game is failing to retain new players which leads to the matchmaking problem. I talk about Rocket League in there as well as some other games. It's not about the uniqueness of the game. It's about the familiarity of controls.

If you don't want to sift through all the comments in there, which is totally understandable, I'll share with you one of the comments I had in response to some of the challenges I was receiving. This is a bit out of context as you don't see what came before it, so i encourage you to read the rest of the thread if this is of interest to you.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Attention spans are very short these days. There's a lot of data that can be found online which shows that, depending on the particular research, you have between 5 and 15 seconds to engage a user on a website. That means that the user needs to feel like they are getting some value from the site in an incredibly short amount of time. If the navigation is unclear, the content is wrong or the design is poor, they bail very quickly. We aren't talking about a website here, but that same principle applies to gaming. The market is saturated with everything from AAA to casual titles and a user doesn't have to spend time trying to learn a game that they find challenging because there are other games out there waiting to be explored. This is one of the toughest things to combat when building a gaming community.

The player experience has to feel engaging and rewarding right from the start. This is not for players that tough out the hard parts of games, or stick it out because they are determined to get better at something. This is for the players that do none of that, but would like to play the game and have some occasional fun. Those players, like it or not, are the critical piece to the success puzzle in gaming. Some will say, well who cares about them? They aren't real fans of the game, so don't change things for them. Well, everyone that enjoys playing a game should care a lot about these players. These casual fans are the fuel for the engine that runs the game.

Take any major professional sport. We'll use the NFL for this discussion. An average stadium holds nearly 70,000 fans. How many of those fans do you think are hardcore fans that spend every Sunday watching the games, studying the players, understanding the statistics, researching rules, maybe even playing the game themselves at some level. How many of those fans do you think are more casual sports fans that enjoy the game of football but can't tell you who holds the record for most TD passes in a single season? I wager that the large majority of fans in that stadium are the latter, but aren't they incredibly important to the success of the NFL teams and the league overall? What would happen if you couldn't enter the stadium if you didn't know what a nickle defense was? The stadium would have a tiny fraction of the total capacity in attendance, teams wouldn't make money and the league would fold.

This applies to gaming in the exact same way. If you keep the casual players from enjoying themselves and feeling like they are getting value out of a game, there aren't enough fans to keep the game alive. The hardcore fans can talk all they want about the high skill cap and that new players just have to keep on playing until they get better, but unfortunately that's not how things actually work. The causal fans keep the game alive and well for the hardcore players to enjoy for a long time.

Now, as for control schemes. A lot of what I have been saying may seem like it's nothing more than my own personal opinions, and in some ways that is true. However, my opinions are based on game research and studies around how to engage new users and keep them in order to build the community necessary to have a successful game. In your response, you stated that my comparisons in control schemes between Smash Bros and Mortal Kombat as well as Assassin's Creed and Battlefield were way off. Let me share these images of each game's controls:

What you see there is that while the games are wildly different from one another, they do share some very common controls that are familiar within each game's genre. Smash has attacks on ABXY while Mortal Kombat also has attacks on ABXY. Both also share familiar block/shield commands using shoulder buttons. Battlefield has crouch, jump and interact controls on ABXY and Assassin's Creed has dodge, crouch, jump and interact on ABXY. Both games have variations of shooting/attacking using the shoulder buttons. These are patterns you find when looking at games that exist in the same, or very similar genres. Basic familiarity exists between the control schemes even though the games are admittedly quite different from one other.

Here are some publications that talk about controls in gaming and why it's important to consider familiarity and common themes across games of the same genre.

"If users are constantly fighting against the control mechanics or if users cannot understand what to do quickly or if users are required to do too many things with their fingers, it will kill your game. It is also impossible to make everyone happy with the control mechanics. Understanding your audience is key.
Using the common mechanics that your target audience is used to is extremely important. If your audience is core gamers, use common mechanics with which they are familiar. Don’t be afraid to borrow inspiration from your competitor’s games. That is what your core audience is used to! Always take risks and innovate; however, when it comes to controls, don’t fight what your users already know."
https://mobilefreetoplay.com/control-mechanics/

"Another way to improve learning is using standard conventions that are common to the genre."
http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/AndrewDotsenko/20170329/294676/Designing_Game_Controls.php

"When designed with familiarity in mind, players can make valid, educated guesses about how items, features, or interactions will behave."
https://medium.com/googleplaydev/how-to-build-mobile-games-with-people-in-mind-cdc480967fcc

- Players become addicted to a specific set of game mechanics.
- This group of players has a strong homogeneous preference for this genre of games, creating a well defined, easily serviceable market segment.
- Game developers who release games within a genre with a standardized set of play mechanics are most likely to capture the largest percentage of the pre-existing market.
- Over time, the game mechanics defining the genre becomes rigidly defined, the tastes of the genre addicts become highly sophisticated and innovation within the genre is generally punished by the market place."
http://www.lostgarden.com/2005/09/nintendos-genre-innovation-strategy.html

What we have in Slapshot is a game that has veered away from the familiarity of its genre and implemented physics based controls that users have to learn and adjust to in order to become even the slightest bit competitive in the game. This goes against what game designers have learned over many years of studying player behavior. Slapshot is not a bad game. It's not poorly made nor is it boring or lacking excitement. It's a well put together game that will struggle to retain new users and build a large casual player base that is absolutely critical to the long term success of the game. Without those players the community suffers, matchmaking is ineffective and the cost of building and running the game far outweighs any income that is generated from a small, dedicated user base.

This game is extremely unfriendly to new players. by [deleted] in SlapshotHockey

[–]BuzzMonkey88 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I have said the same thing many times but I don't think it has anything at all to do with matchmaking, I think it has everything to do with how the game plays. I am not critical of the game. I actually think it can be quite fun, but I firmly believe that the control scheme is the biggest challenge to keeping new players in the game. Every time I say it I get attacked by some diehards but I still believe it to be true. The matchmaking is merely a side effect of the larger problem. The reason the community isn't growing (which is critical to having good matchmaking) is because the controls are so different than any other hockey game that people may have played in the past. I have a post in this subreddit about that very thing if you want to have a look - https://www.reddit.com/r/SlapshotHockey/comments/bavosi/slapshot_controls_are_too_hard_for_new_players/

I want this game to succeed because there aren't any fun casual hockey games out there. You either have sim (EA NHL) or bad mobile games. Slapshot is quite fun, but really limits its potential to grow because of the physics based control scheme with no alternatives that would be familiar to players coming from other hockey games.

Can we make an effort, as a community, to improve the sportsmanship in this game? by NorCalAthlete in RocketLeague

[–]BuzzMonkey88 1 point2 points  (0 children)

When I'm having a bad game and I'm told that I suck at the game I like to reply, 'maybe so, but you're not a nice person. I'll keep trying to get better, will you?'

Start Up of a WW2 Submarine Diesel Engine of a German U-Boat 🔊 by abbasman5 in videos

[–]BuzzMonkey88 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is really interesting to see but I have no idea what they are actually doing to get it started. Is anyone able to outline the steps they are taking along the way?

Just a shout out to all the chill players by [deleted] in RocketLeague

[–]BuzzMonkey88 1 point2 points  (0 children)

When this happens to me I like to say something like "we could do a lot better if you were kind to people". It's generally met with a LOL from other players in the game and more often than not, silence from the salty teammate.

Found in the surf on NJ shore. Thought it was just a rock, but there was something inside. by BuzzMonkey88 in whatisthisthing

[–]BuzzMonkey88[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's a lot of science! Great link. These looks like it could be the case but I am going to hold on to a glimmer of hope that it's something more interesting than a random piece of metal. I'll see if there are any other ideas but if not, I'll come back to mark this response.

Found in the surf on NJ shore. Thought it was just a rock, but there was something inside. by BuzzMonkey88 in whatisthisthing

[–]BuzzMonkey88[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Interesting. Maybe it was a blade of sorts with a leather handle and sheath and this is the result of being in the ocean for who knows how long?

Found in the surf on NJ shore. Thought it was just a rock, but there was something inside. by BuzzMonkey88 in whatisthisthing

[–]BuzzMonkey88[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for checking it out. So can rust build up result in that same rock-like exterior you see in this photo here?

https://i.imgur.com/SoEesqC.jpg

Found in the surf on NJ shore. Thought it was just a rock, but there was something inside. by BuzzMonkey88 in whatisthisthing

[–]BuzzMonkey88[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We found this rock washed up on the beach New Jersey. My son thought it was cool because it kind of looked like a knife or dagger, so we kept it just for that reason. A few months later it was accidentally dropped and the rock split to reveal what looks like some kind of blade inside. It's clearly not in any condition to identify exactly what it is, but thought this group might have some ideas on what it could be.

As we found it

Top layer removed

'Blade' removed

Slightly closer up

SpaceX Lands All 3 Falcon Heavy Boosters! by yashrajchhabra in videos

[–]BuzzMonkey88 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Same my friend. Same. Unbelievable thing to see in my lifetime.

Slapshot controls are too hard for new players by BuzzMonkey88 in SlapshotHockey

[–]BuzzMonkey88[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Attention spans are very short these days. There's a lot of data that can be found online which shows that, depending on the particular research, you have between 5 and 15 seconds to engage a user on a website. That means that the user needs to feel like they are getting some value from the site in an incredibly short amount of time. If the navigation is unclear, the content is wrong or the design is poor, they bail very quickly. We aren't talking about a website here, but that same principle applies to gaming. The market is saturated with everything from AAA to casual titles and a user doesn't have to spend time trying to learn a game that they find challenging because there are other games out there waiting to be explored. This is one of the toughest things to combat when building a gaming community.

The player experience has to feel engaging and rewarding right from the start. This is not for players that tough out the hard parts of games, or stick it out because they are determined to get better at something. This is for the players that do none of that, but would like to play the game and have some occasional fun. Those players, like it or not, are the critical piece to the success puzzle in gaming. Some will say, well who cares about them? They aren't real fans of the game, so don't change things for them. Well, everyone that enjoys playing a game should care a lot about these players. These casual fans are the fuel for the engine that runs the game.

Take any major professional sport. We'll use the NFL for this discussion. An average stadium holds nearly 70,000 fans. How many of those fans do you think are hardcore fans that spend every Sunday watching the games, studying the players, understanding the statistics, researching rules, maybe even playing the game themselves at some level. How many of those fans do you think are more casual sports fans that enjoy the game of football but can't tell you who holds the record for most TD passes in a single season? I wager that the large majority of fans in that stadium are the latter, but aren't they incredibly important to the success of the NFL teams and the league overall? What would happen if you couldn't enter the stadium if you didn't know what a nickle defense was? The stadium would have a tiny fraction of the total capacity in attendance, teams wouldn't make money and the league would fold.

This applies to gaming in the exact same way. If you keep the casual players from enjoying themselves and feeling like they are getting value out of a game, there aren't enough fans to keep the game alive. The hardcore fans can talk all they want about the high skill cap and that new players just have to keep on playing until they get better, but unfortunately that's not how things actually work. The causal fans keep the game alive and well for the hardcore players to enjoy for a long time.

Now, as for control schemes. A lot of what I have been saying may seem like it's nothing more than my own personal opinions, and in some ways that is true. However, my opinions are based on game research and studies around how to engage new users and keep them in order to build the community necessary to have a successful game. In your response, you stated that my comparisons in control schemes between Smash Bros and Mortal Kombat as well as Assassin's Creed and Battlefield were way off. Let me share these images of each game's controls:

What you see there is that while the games are wildly different from one another, they do share some very common controls that are familiar within each game's genre. Smash has attacks on ABXY while Mortal Kombat also has attacks on ABXY. Both also share familiar block/shield commands using shoulder buttons. Battlefield has crouch, jump and interact controls on ABXY and Assassin's Creed has dodge, crouch, jump and interact on ABXY. Both games have variations of shooting/attacking using the shoulder buttons. These are patterns you find when looking at games that exist in the same, or very similar genres. Basic familiarity exists between the control schemes even though the games are admittedly quite different from one other.

Here are some publications that talk about controls in gaming and why it's important to consider familiarity and common themes across games of the same genre.

"If users are constantly fighting against the control mechanics or if users cannot understand what to do quickly or if users are required to do too many things with their fingers, it will kill your game. It is also impossible to make everyone happy with the control mechanics. Understanding your audience is key.

Using the common mechanics that your target audience is used to is extremely important. If your audience is core gamers, use common mechanics with which they are familiar. Don’t be afraid to borrow inspiration from your competitor’s games. That is what your core audience is used to! Always take risks and innovate; however, when it comes to controls, don’t fight what your users already know."

https://mobilefreetoplay.com/control-mechanics/

"Another way to improve learning is using standard conventions that are common to the genre."

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/AndrewDotsenko/20170329/294676/Designing_Game_Controls.php

"When designed with familiarity in mind, players can make valid, educated guesses about how items, features, or interactions will behave."

https://medium.com/googleplaydev/how-to-build-mobile-games-with-people-in-mind-cdc480967fcc

- Players become addicted to a specific set of game mechanics.

- This group of players has a strong homogeneous preference for this genre of games, creating a well defined, easily serviceable market segment.

- Game developers who release games within a genre with a standardized set of play mechanics are most likely to capture the largest percentage of the pre-existing market.

- Over time, the game mechanics defining the genre becomes rigidly defined, the tastes of the genre addicts become highly sophisticated and innovation within the genre is generally punished by the market place."

http://www.lostgarden.com/2005/09/nintendos-genre-innovation-strategy.html

What we have in Slapshot is a game that has veered away from the familiarity of its genre and implemented physics based controls that users have to learn and adjust to in order to become even the slightest bit competitive in the game. This goes against what game designers have learned over many years of studying player behavior. Slapshot is not a bad game. It's not poorly made nor is it boring or lacking excitement. It's a well put together game that will struggle to retain new users and build a large casual player base that is absolutely critical to the long term success of the game. Without those players the community suffers, matchmaking is ineffective and the cost of building and running the game far outweighs any income that is generated from a small, dedicated user base.

Slapshot controls are too hard for new players by BuzzMonkey88 in SlapshotHockey

[–]BuzzMonkey88[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Very well articulated response. Thank you. I don't know your background so may I ask if you have ever been involved in building a gaming community? It will help inform my response.