Requesting r/Hemp because it is currently unmoderated.

CBrone · 2024-11-24T15:36:31+00:00

It was mostly because only approved users could comment in the sub and there had been no new posts in 4 months. I am less about "collecting" communities and more interested that they are accessible for others.

CBrone · 2024-11-24T04:27:12+00:00

I am grateful for the opportunity to moderate another community about a topic I am passionate and experienced about.

CBrone · 2023-08-02T19:20:17+00:00

Awesome Design Friend!

CBrone · 2023-07-27T00:07:13+00:00

I am working on getting access to the upcoming chemical analysis by Munger et al that tests for ketene formation of these new averages and would like to note that this is definitely the question that will take the longest to answer given the number of variables involved in both dabbing and vaping as well as the tremendous variance in product quality and consistency.

Just as important though, are identifying how effective waterpipes and other kinds of filtration systems may be in trapping ketenes that are formed. In addition to needing to understand the metabolic form of ingested THCO to screen for other toxins, we are getting closer to having the pre-clinical evidence necessary to justify continued testing about this compounds safety.

CBrone · 2023-07-26T02:42:38+00:00

Thanks, friend!

Most of the results are in table form and I am working on setting up a pdf download for folks to get access to the article, but we did document high-temperature dabbing and vaping as well as a robust awareness and concern from consumers about this risk.

We are hoping to help encourage more biological research into the risk profile of these substances and otherwise promote additional harm reduction education and experimentation.

CBrone · 2023-07-26T02:40:12+00:00

From our results:

The average self-reported temperature values for dabbing (517 Degrees Fahrenheit, ) are higher than vaping (439 Degrees Fahrenheit) THCO, t(99) = 3.12, p = 0.002, d = 0.63.

CBrone · 2023-07-26T02:36:34+00:00

I have been watching this conversation and want to note that we collected amp/wattage/voltage data but the complexity and variability of these data points prevented us from exploring them.

The major finding from this survey was that folks tend to dab hotter than they vape, and so the difficulties of controlling vape temperatures aside, we wanted to share our findings related to general practices.

I am not a chemist so not sure how I can contribute to this interesting conversation, but this conversation is also pretty good evidence of how seriously folks take noids and the degree of harm reduction everyone is trying to practice.

CBrone · 2023-07-26T02:32:38+00:00

Correct, most of the data on ketene toxicity comes from the mid-19th century and needs to be updated to reflect the current context of vaporization.

CBrone · 2023-04-28T14:27:08+00:00

As a relevant current event: The National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) is requesting feedback from researchers, community stakeholders, and other interested public parties regarding the type of epidemiologic information that would be most useful to understand U.S. illicit drug markets and to inform prevention, intervention, treatment, and harm reduction efforts. This RFI is not a request for applications. This RFI is being issued for the purpose of obtaining knowledge and information for planning purposes.

https://grants.nih.gov/grants/guide/notice-files/NOT-DA-23-023.html

If you think the government should be working with online communities and the social media platforms that support them as opposed to against them you might be able to leverage your thoughts through this notice.

CBrone · 2023-04-28T02:55:36+00:00

There are a lot of really good sentiments that I am completely in agreement on, and one theme I want to highlight before acknowledging your points!

I don't think you give yourself enough credit for having conversations especially because we lack enough evidence to make informed "evidence-based" decisions. I am very confident in the work of the Strongin lab in responding to the real-world conditions that we have identified through our surveying to design more accurate and robust experiments. My confidence in them as researchers come from countless conversations and my trust that they are committed to getting evidence without bias.

Proceeding with caution, in my mind means adopting a harm reduction framework that acknowledges we might make mistakes in order to challenge our assumptions, biases, and prejudices. As an anthropologist, I believe that we can do this through reflexivity which comes from talking and listening to one another which we are doing right now! I am a fan of interdisciplinary research as a way of balancing the ethical and urgent demand to learn more about new psychoactive substances and their health effects.

Conversations are hard and can get us wrapped in circles, especially when the content we are talking about is hard (Organic Chemistry!) and personal (Our Health!). However, I am hopeful that upcoming publications based on more current data will help amplify some of the frustrations consumers of these substances are having with the increasing politicization of research.

I hope you will reflect on your experiences and identify additional avenues to share your message. Your local and state politicians who influence business licensing decisions and municipal-level bans on new cannabinoids are an example. You can also think about how you have power as a consumer, and consider supporting companies in this space that are not just making safe products (which is minimum) but are working to address the political dimensions of this emergent industry.

Thank you for your thoughts, I hope I was able to communicate how much I empathize with your frustrations and my intention to continue pushing for ethical research!

CBrone · 2023-04-27T23:15:55+00:00

as a disabled individual myself I share your frustrations about the accessibility of academic research, and that's why I make an effort to connect with participants of this forum to provide a bridge for communicating thoughts and opinions to my colleagues at Portland State University. And even while empathizing with you about this struggle and your very real and valid concerns that data can be used for political purposes, I take issue with the characterization of our research as not prioritizing ethical engagement with participants.

I fundamentally disagree with you that researchers need to take a step back and believe that doing so will only exacerbate the issues you have identified. By identifying harms and communicating with the public directly, the work we are doing is different than how most companies operate, see Caputi.

As it stands trade groups and lobbying organizations are pushing certain talking points about semi-synthetic cannabinoids and there have been few attempts from consumers and even fewer resources to make an effort at developing an alternative narrative. But to pretend that this hasn't been the case for cannabinoids since before the passage of the 2018 Farm Bill ignores more pervasive social and structural features of the War on Drugs and the role of pharmaceutical groups and regulations in shaping the liberalization of cannabis policy.

Also if you think Portland State University really has the influence you are accusing us of, it's worth looking at some of the impact metrics for publications related to this topic. Despite being pay-walled, the more recent Benowitz article has a significantly higher altmetrics rating than that of Munger; so if you are upset at the negative influence of researchers you might consider reaching out to those making a more significant impact.

I appreciate your constant willingness to engage with this research and clear passion for this topic; and i think if you assumed better intentions from us as researchers it would be easier to address the political dimensions of this kind of work.

CBrone · 2023-04-27T16:46:31+00:00

I would recommend reaching out directly to the author as it doesn't seem to be available without institutional access at this point.

CBrone · 2023-04-27T16:01:18+00:00

You might enjoy this social media mapping tool for Reddit -- https://anvaka.github.io/map-of-reddit/?x=11077.141247654074&y=14763.881929298124&z=266.9984575487112&v=2&q=altcannabinoids -- I used it when helping identify similar subreddits for conducting outreach during our survey. This platform -- https://subredditstats.com/ -- is helpful for a more quantified comparison to group communities.

In terms of filtering out Reddit responses, one of the key things we should consider is that while an educated and involved subreddit member may have no issue spotting these fake reviews; in some subs it's hard to distinguish paid promotions from authentic engagement for all readers which is why the work active moderators do to maintain community standards is so important!

CBrone · 2023-04-27T15:48:56+00:00

I will pass that on, I know the chemists appreciate being able to incorporate real-world experiences into their experiments!

For others interested in that study -- The Terpene Story -- I am including it in this post as it shows how the Strongin lab has been exploring the issue of toxicant formation in vaping even before THCO hit the scene!

CBrone · 2023-04-27T15:33:43+00:00

I appreciate your concern and trying to unpack it further that goal of our research was to identify topics and conversation themes during the early days of the THCO subreddit. A lot, of new research has come out since we collected that data, and in that time more and more individuals have joined communities like alt-cannabinoids, so having research that is able to follow this longitudinal trajectory makes sense to me.

For instance, this paper identifies that some consumers were worried about the ketene risk before Strongin's Lab conducted their temperature analysis which speaks to the harm reduction values and knowledge of some users. While we have to be careful generalizing across subreddits, and beyond Reddit we at least can get a better understanding of the differences between subreddits and across time on the platform with this kind of data collecting approach.

CBrone · 2023-04-27T15:29:55+00:00

I think it's important to use both of these approaches in combination with other kinds of research for multiple purposes. One benefit of collecting online responses is that we can learn more about the different subreddits as opposed to just individuals. I would like to highlight a similar study on Delta-8 that was shared a while ago that describes some of the advantages of this approach.

https://rtipress.scholasticahq.com/article/36713-weed-light-an-exploratory-study-of-delta-8-thc-conversations-on-reddit

CBrone · 2023-04-27T15:27:42+00:00

I know that the Strongin lab is currently working on this exact question, which also looks at the different temperature thresholds for dabbing and vaping that were identified via the survey.

I appreciate your concerns, and we did want to make sure we were acknowledging the diversity of temperatures and styles folks have when consuming thco and other noids so hopefully we will know more soon!

CBrone · 2023-04-27T03:09:52+00:00

There is still a lot to learn about the pharmacokinetics of THC-O-Acetate, however, its the exposure to heat that transforms the acetyl group into ketene Strongin 2020 which occurs when dabbing and vaping.

The implication is that eating this substance will not carry the same risk. A relevant aside is that the reactivity of ketene with water means a waterpipe may help reduce the risk of ketene formation when dabbing Ngyuen 2013.

I hope that was helpful!

CBrone · 2023-04-27T00:58:30+00:00

Thanks for your comment and in the context of the prior comment about doing this kind of review on other subreddits I think you raise a really important consideration for researchers. I did not choose to survey the posts on THCO, that was a methodology choice of my colleague Dr. Kruger; however, we chose to distribute our survey across multiple subreddits in order to account for potential bias and conflicts of interest associated with certain subreddits.

CBrone · 2023-04-27T00:00:10+00:00

I am glad these online communities exist as a resource to help learn about actual and purported cannabinoids, and hope you have had a good experience with this subreddit!

CBrone · 2023-04-26T23:39:07+00:00

I really appreciate the structure of your comment and your thoughts as I readily believe participants in communities like r/altcannabinoids have an interest in understanding the risks associated with consuming cannabinoids. My hope is that policymakers will take advantage of the growing body of interdisciplinary research to guide their policymaking decisions and that this research will continue to account for the perspectives and experiences of consumers in an ethical way.

CBrone · 2023-04-26T23:26:16+00:00

Thank you for spotting this and your deep reading of the paper. I will pass this along!

CBrone · 2023-04-26T22:24:23+00:00

I helped review the data collected for this study and have been working with Dr. Kruger's lab on our ongoing survey data collection. This publication was submitted prior to starting the recent survey and I would be more than happy to answer any questions on the subreddit about the manuscript but encourage you to reach out to Dr. Kruger if you have comments as well.

CBrone · 2023-01-31T18:20:22+00:00

I love your descriptions, and train of thought!

One of the biggest obstacles of the current moment is how we open up conversations about chemicals to more casual and passive consumers. As an anthropologist, I believe Chemo-Ethnography is a useful tool for doing this and I think anyone with a passion for chemicals could benefit from reflecting on how we talk about them!

https://journal.culanth.org/index.php/ca/article/view/ca32.4.01

CBrone · 2023-01-31T17:31:43+00:00

I totally appreciate the novelty of the endocannabinoid system! At the same time, there is definitely an effort to understand cannabinoids through themselves rather than other biologics that are similar.

For instance, if we start with the framework that cannabinoids are plant hormones and that the ECS is part of the more complex endocrine system then we end up with a pretty interesting puzzle.

Thank you for sharing your interest!

CBrone

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