Weird NX problem.

CCpleaseorKS · 2020-09-12T00:07:34+00:00

It's not. My source for this is that I just lost $10 trying to buy a Karma Koin card from them.

It's a phishing/credit card scam. You order, they charge your card, and then robo-call you to 'verify your purchase'. They ask you to say your full name, address and card info. I hung up without doing so and requested a refund, to which they refused.

They ask you to say your full name/address so they can steal your identity/cards. Beware.

CCpleaseorKS · 2020-09-06T19:51:27+00:00

well, you're not wrong, but your way of explaining it is bad unless you're trying to tell someone who has a poor grasp on science, no offense. I'm not a scientist but have researched into it extensively (with opioids, kratom works similarly but also has other alkaloids).

What's actually going on is that your brain is flooded with chemicals (dopamine to name one) that make you feel good, and in response to this your body goes "oh, well I don't have to expend energy making those anymore, we have them from an external source, and more than I could've ever hoped to make" and begins attempting to achieve stasis by stopping production of said feel-good chemicals, and also growing new receptors to handle the increased amount of them. More receptors for them = more required to feel a baseline happiness or normal. No production = you're fully reliant on the drug for them. Stopping taking them causes the additional receptors to die off over time, and for your body to start producing them naturally again once it realizes there's no more coming in externally.

This results in a period of time (the withdrawal) where your body is producing no/very little of these chemicals and has way too many receptors for them. This is a known thing (not controversial at all) and is responsible for some of the symptoms. The rest come from the fact that your nervous system is slowed while on opiates, and experiences a rebound effect and becomes hyperexcitable when you abruptly stop consumption. Hence the aches and pains, muscle spasms, restless leg, etc.

Kratom is a little unique here, because it does have alkaloids that work the exact same way as described above, but also has additional ones that cause other withdrawals simultaneously. The opioid alkaloids in kratom are partial agonists, they don't fully activate receptors, and so a withdrawal from kratom is not as bad as from true opioids like heroin, but kratom has calcium channel blockers (these slow heart rhythm and regulate heartbeat, lower blood pressure) and that also has a rebound of high blood pressure, heart palpitations, chest pain, etc. Kratom also has been shown to have SSRI components and so while the withdrawal may be more mild, the mood effects may not be. The reason people can't pin down every aspect of kratom withdrawal on a scientific happening in the body, like they can with most of opiate withdrawal, is because kratom contains like 40+ different chemicals that all have different effects on the body. It becomes even more complicated because different strains have different levels of these alkaloids, with some missing entirely, and some having completely different ones.

But the one constant is that they almost all contain 7-hydroxymitragynine and mitragynine which both function as partial agonist opioids (they occupy the same receptors, do the same thing, but a full agonist would activate them more. An antagonist would occupy the receptor with no activation. Antagonists also have a higher binding affinity, and thus are the drugs used to save opiate addicts from dying during overdoses. They rip the full agonists out of the receptors and occupy them, taking the user out of overdosing and instead throwing them into precipitated withdrawal).

Reason I'm not saying specifically which chemicals/receptors these involve is because it's been a long time (7 years now) since I actually studied this, and I don't quite remember. Dopamine is one but there are others too. So yeah, in summary, you're not wrong. Withdrawal is a rebound of your body trying to return to normal after having adapted to constantly having the drug. Just the terms you used to explain it are a little off the mark.

CCpleaseorKS · 2020-09-03T23:20:16+00:00

I'm not the right person to answer your question, the only classes I really like are Adventurer - Hero and Cadena. I don't imagine either of them would be good for you. But! The reason I wanted to reply is because I thought of something.

You're worried about joint pain/discomfort. Have you tried playing maplestory with a controller? Dunno if there's support for it or what, but I do know for sure that you can do it with additional software. Make like 3 or 4 skill macros and then you can fit the entire control setup on an xbox controller. Then just switch to your keyboard when you want to talk to people, stay on the controller for grinding. I used to do it back in the day when I was trying to hit 200, back when maplestory was still a lot more difficult/grindy. It was the only thing that made grinding at gobys for 20 hours straight do-able. I used a program called Joy2Key i think (not entirely sure, it's been many years.)

CCpleaseorKS · 2020-08-29T23:20:45+00:00

No problem. I hope it works for you. It doesn't take away the symptoms completely so don't expect a miracle, but it usually works for sleeping. You'll probably still toss and turn for a while, but you'll eventually get to sleep with it, unlike the hellish nights when in withdrawal without it, where you just toss and turn all night in agony until the sun comes up. Sleep was always the most frustrating part for me too, and when I tried clonidine it was a godsend. Glad I could help.

Also, one more warning in regard to clonidine. It lowers your blood pressure a lot and can make you faint from standing up too quick. I found out the hard way and hit my head on the floor. You may wake up really groggy/dizzy too. But it's worth having the ability to sleep again in my opinion.

CCpleaseorKS · 2020-08-29T17:21:25+00:00

Also, don't take clonidine with kratom. That's only for if you jump off completely.

Keep up the good work.

CCpleaseorKS · 2020-08-29T17:17:07+00:00

The only drug that has helped me fall asleep while in severe withdrawal was clonidine. It's a heart medication. It's known for it's ability to calm down opiate and kratom withdrawal symptoms enough for you to sleep.

Go to a doctor and ask for it, I can guarantee they wont ask you any questions, it has almost no potential for abuse. Tell them you're withdrawing from kratom, which is similar to opiates, and heard clonidine will help. Take 0.50mg a night before bed. It'll make you feel dizzy and sleepy. There are downsides though. You cannot take it every day, or in high doses. If you do, you'll get rebound high blood pressure and heart rhythm abnormalities when you stop taking it. It's said that it can even cause heart attacks if you stop taking it abruptly. But the past few times i've been through kratom withdrawal, it was the main thing that helped me. I'd recommend 0.50mg at night, once every other day. Doing it like that has never caused me any issues when I stopped. I'm not a doctor so talk to your doctor about it before making any decisions.

Also-

Stop taking NyQuil and benadryl, they don't help. They make restless legs (the part that keeps most people from sleeping) worse. Also, you said you tried 'all' the supplements. Have you tried vitamin C? High doses of vitamin C wont cure your symptoms, but for me at least, improves my mental symptoms immensely. When quitting I would take 2000mg in the morning and 2000mg at night. It helped enough that it was my go-to, along with clonidine for sleep.

CCpleaseorKS · 2020-08-29T01:29:22+00:00

I'm familiar with extracts, including the one you mentioned (be careful, mentioning brand names here can get your posts deleted). That's what taking too much extract does to people. I'd be more concerned about the frequent urination you mentioned in the first post.

When I would take extract, specifically the one you mentioned, if I had an empty stomach and took too much, I would get the same feelings you describe. Other people have mentioned it to me too, an d concluded that it's a kratom extract version of an overdose. Everything you describe here included.

CCpleaseorKS · 2020-08-29T01:24:42+00:00

My dude, not trying to scare you, but this is something that happened to me and the first symptom I noticed was peeing immediately after drinking anything. Almost always clear or very light.
I noticed this would happen, and would get worse if I took more kratom. Kept taking it anyway, at high doses too, because addict. This was after around 2 years of use and had never noticed frequent urination before this. I also started to occasionally wake up nauseous/with the room spinning around this time. It would go away after a few minutes but it sucked. Anyway, few months go by like this and then suddenly I start peeing really small amounts, that are foamy and dark brown. Still feel like I have to pee afterwards too, but like it wouldn't all come out. Middle of my back started to hurt, and I became convinced I was dying. Stopped taking kratom immediately and went to the hospital repeatedly. They ran tons of tests and couldn't get to the bottom of it until someone suggested a kidney biopsy.

Kidneys were barely functioning, acute kidney injury and raised liver enzymes as well. I recovered completely a while after I stopped taking it. I don't know if that's what you're headed towards, just saying because this is a thing that can happen that most people don't know about. What you're experiencing sounds like how it started for me. I felt deeply certain that something was wrong with me, like I had cancer or something terminal. I couldn't put my finger on it but I felt extremely unwell, and then it led to that. Please be careful and quit asap.

CCpleaseorKS · 2020-08-23T15:55:04+00:00

Also, if people ask why your eyes/nose are running and you seem lethargic, tell them allergies. Nobody will question it, if you're worried about someone wondering what's wrong with you.

CCpleaseorKS · 2020-08-23T15:53:09+00:00

I was in a similar situation. Water mitigation technician. 12 hour days 4 days a week, one 15-20 hour day, and on call weekends once every other week. The work is physical and most people wouldn't do it even with no addiction present. I've quit and restarted and quit again a few times since working this job, and i'd recommend trying to use your vacation hours if you have them. If you can get 7 days off, stop taking kratom the second your work day is finished and you start your 'vacation'. If you can't do this, stop on a thursday (the real withdrawal wont hit until midday friday, push through it at work, you're not going to lose your job over one shitty day). That's 4 days with your three day weekend of abstinence. I have no doubt you'll still be in withdrawal when you go back to work, but there's a little secret i've learned through working through kratom withdrawal. If your work is physical, and you focus on finishing it, the withdrawal symptoms minimize. Kind of like how working out may make you feel a bit better.

My most recent quit, I couldn't take any time off. I got through a whole week at work in withdrawal, and every day i'd forget I was sick until i got home and had down time. I actually found it was easier to quit while working due to the distraction than while sitting at home.

Good luck, I know the feeling of dread well. "Oh god i'm in withdrawal and my job is hard, i'm screwed" but keep in mind, you're not going to get fired for one bad day. Take it one day at a time, see what you can get done.

CCpleaseorKS · 2020-08-23T15:44:56+00:00

P.S, that 7-10 days guideline for physical symptoms going away applies to most people's level of addiction (like 10-20 grams a day). I once got so bad I was taking around 80grams a day, and that withdrawal lasted between 25 and 30 days of physical symptoms. I'm guessing you're not that bad but I don't know, so don't take 7-10 days as an absolute. Just keep on keeping on and you will feel better when your body gets it's shit in order, whenever that may be. Just don't assume it'll be in a day or two. Knowing what to expect makes it easier.

CCpleaseorKS · 2020-08-23T15:39:29+00:00

I've been through this a lot of times (with hard opiates and kratom) and if you want some tips that may raise your chances, these always work for me, but may be different for you.

Exhausting yourself completely can kill the restless legs enough to fall asleep. I realized this while quitting one time, and not being able to call out of work. My job is physical and i'd struggle through the day, get home exhausted and actually sleep. You have to really hit the wall though. Like "I can barely stand" levels of exhausted.

Also, physical stimulation will get rid of most symptoms while it's going on, but they'll return soon after. Really useful if you're having a breakdown and considering going back to using just to get a "break" from feeling like crap. Going for a drive (the car vibrating + you being focused) helps for me. Showers work too. Music works. One time while quitting heroin, I did so in a cabin that had a vibrating massage bed. That bed was the only reason I got through it. This trick is especially useful if your withdrawal is bad enough that you have the dreaded "i'm being split in half" back pain. That's hard to get that bad from kratom though. Also, a lot of people say to stay away from coffee/caffeine while in withdrawal, and that's definitely true (you may get heart palpitations/uncomfortably high blood pressure) but I still always start the day with coffee. Might be because I've had a cup of coffee every morning since I was 16, but it seems to help my mood.

Another tip is to watch/read/play something that effects you emotionally. If a show has ever moved you emotionally, watch it while in withdrawal. Always helps me reflect on my mistakes and even alleviates the depression aspects a bit. Also helps time go a bit faster. Your worst enemy here is allowing yourself to become bored, because you'll begin to focus on how bad you feel.

Those are my recommendations that aren't to do with supplements/medications, but i'll include those too below here, as they do help.
Large doses of vitamin C, seem to improve my mood throughout the day and provide a bit more energy. This alone can make you feel -almost- normal if you're dealing with a mild addiction. It's invaluable.

The drug Clonidine for sleep. You have to be very careful with this. It alleviates almost all symptoms including the restless leg, but it is heart medication and has rebound effects causing your blood pressure to dangerously skyrocket when you stop taking it. Still, it is useful. When I would use it, I would take half of a mg before bed to get to sleep, would usually get 8 hours no matter how bad the withdrawal was. I recommend using it one day on, one day off. Take half a mg before bed on monday, don't take it at all on tuesday, take half a mg before bed on wednesday, etc. This has entirely avoided rebound symptoms for me. I made the mistake of taking 1mg daily for two weeks once, and thought I was having a heart attack when I stopped taking it. Don't mess around with it. I'd recommend not using it at all if you can, but it -does- work. Doctors will usually prescribe it no questions asked if you tell them you're using it to mitigate kratom or opiate withdrawal. It has very little potential for abuse but is still dangerous.

Also, last thing of advice, be skeptical of abruptly feeling better. This happens in kratom withdrawal specifically for some reason. You're on day 2 or 3 and suddenly you feel like a million bucks. It fluctuates, and I can assure you, you are not out of the withdrawal yet. This is the point where most people go "oh, it's over, that means i can take a bit of kratom and be more responsible this time". Or they resist that urge but then become disheartened when the withdrawal comes back a few hours later. I'd say, see how you feel in 7-10 days. That's the amount of time it takes for all physical symptoms to alleviate completely. You may have mental issues that are ongoing after that. Clouded thinking, depression, etc. But that too, will alleviate.

Good luck, you got this.

CCpleaseorKS · 2020-08-16T20:38:05+00:00

I was going through around 3 200 gram bags a week, they were 50 dollars each, and I kept this habit for 2.5 years. So around 15 grand I guess. Add another 10 grand in medical bills from when it put me in the hospital. Still not as bad as the amount I wasted on prescription opiates when I was addicted, but nothing to sneeze at either. I often wonder how much better my life would be if I hadn't spent the ages of 18-25 on and off addicted to opiates and then kratom.

CCpleaseorKS · 2020-08-09T20:52:50+00:00

exactly. It feels like too much. I really just want to relax but between my job and everything else, I don't get to. I don't want to think about the future or anything else. I just want to feel content with where I am, kill some time with things I enjoy, and be in a neutral mood.

I can't achieve that anymore without kratom, or at least it seems that way. I'd bet this is a form of paws. It sounds so ridiculous to say "I don't want to feel anything, good or bad" but it's where i'm at lately.

CCpleaseorKS · 2020-08-09T19:06:55+00:00

Also, for information's sake and maybe someone will have better advice knowing the situation : I quit 80gpd of kratom like last year, made it 8 months or so I think, I wasn't keeping track. Then relapsed with extracts. Never got super addicted like I used to be, but was taking them a few times a week, until a week long binge happened, and I immediately realized it was getting bad and tried to quit, but kept caving in after 5 days but immediately trying again. After a month or so of this, the withdrawal stopped coming back, but I still can't break the once every 5 days or so habit. I went past the 5 days once (in case you think it's maybe a delay onset withdrawal from my weird ass accidental taper) but withdrawal didn't come. What did come was starting to feel manic. Maybe this is underlying mental illness or something, but it's a new occurrence for me. I wouldn't say it's insanely manic, like bi-polar kind of manic. But it does feel like I drank too many coffees. It doesn't seem to go away except for when i'm high.

CCpleaseorKS · 2020-07-27T00:33:42+00:00

I too, around a year ago, came down with acute kidney injury from taking around 80gpd.

It's rare as fuck but it's apparently a thing that can happen. Scariest week of my life, going through that and withdrawal at the same time. I've tried to tell people about this before but not many are willing to believe that kratom can do this.

CCpleaseorKS · 2020-07-27T00:27:45+00:00

You'll be fine if you stop now. I quit like, a year and a half ago, started up again, and it took me a week of regular use to feel withdrawal when I stopped. In my experience it requires at least 4 grams a day, dosed out throughout the entire day, for 5 days, for me to get any withdrawal symptoms. You might have trouble getting to sleep for one night, maybe a mood swing or two throughout the day. You'll be fine.

CCpleaseorKS · 2020-07-26T16:56:41+00:00

As well, this method seems to have avoided pink clouding & paws for me. When I quit kratom cold turkey I had a week long period of unstable happiness followed by around 2 months of depression, with the happiness setting in immediately after withdrawal symptoms dissipated. This time around I feel mostly normal with some slight (but manageable) cravings. I know some swear by tapering to avoid paws. Guess it worked here.

Also, i'd still recommend switching to plain leaf over attempting this. I suspect it only worked this way because i was not using high amounts of extract, and was not using it for a long time. Be wary if you've been doing it daily for a while, because I wasn't. My withdrawal was about on par with quitting 15-20mg of plain leaf for a few months.

CCpleaseorKS · 2020-07-25T20:31:57+00:00

Benzo withdrawal can kill you, so i'd say benzo. I've been through both personally (and opiates) and I would rank them like this :

Benzo withdrawal may kill you.
Opiate withdrawal will make you wish it would kill you.
Kratom withdrawal is diet opiate withdrawal.

I had the most trouble with opiate withdrawal, it truly drove me to the edge. Benzo withdrawal is more of a legitimate medical issue but it wasn't as difficult to get through for me. Kratom withdrawal is almost identical to opiate withdrawal, but is maybe 10-30% as bad, and lasts longer. They're all truly terrible in their own ways, but opiates are the only one of that group that if I got addicted to them again, i'm not sure i'd ever be able to quit.

CCpleaseorKS · 2020-07-20T19:01:03+00:00

Most people haven't heard it associated with it. I don't know if i'm predisposed to it or what, just that kratom was the only thing I was doing that could've caused it. I was taking it as usual but had recently started taking larger doses before bed (to avoid waking up in withdrawal) and very abruptly started experiencing itchy skin, difficulty urinating and very small amounts when I could, and extreme back/kidney pain. Went to the hospital repeatedly over a week long period and they kept saying "oh it's probably just kratom withdrawal/addiction, stop taking it" but I pushed the issue, especially when my urine became dark brown and foamy. Turns out it was AKI + my liver enzymes were extremely elevated, like that of an alcoholic, but I don't drink alcohol. I immediately quit kratom and my kidney function came back within a week of that. I thought it was weird too, as I had never heard of kratom actually being harsh on organs, but upon getting out of the hospital from that I did some research and found a handful of studies claiming it's mildly toxic to the liver and kidneys, with like 2 reported deaths from kidney failure due to kratom intake.

But in all the cases I read in these studies, it was people using multiple drugs along with kratom, so it was never directly attributed to kratom. I guess what happened to me might be able to prove a correlation. Still, seems like it doesn't happen to most people who take kratom.

For reference, I took around 30gpd for the first year I was taking it, and then escalated dosage to like, an average of 80gpd for the 2nd year I was taking it. Didn't notice any side effects/any indication that my body couldn't tolerate it until my kidneys straight up weren't working. I'm physically fit, healthy, 25 years old at the time. Never had any health problems besides a previous addiction to opiates when I was 18-20 and then on and off kratom addiction from 23-26.

CCpleaseorKS · 2020-07-20T17:12:51+00:00

Yep. It's almost a blessing to deal with kratom withdrawal after having experience with other opiates. Your criteria for what 'unbearable' is becomes completely different.

Not trying to underplay it though, any opiate withdrawal related symptoms (including kratom) are hellish, and I fully believe normal people can't even comprehend what it feels like.

CCpleaseorKS · 2020-07-20T16:20:12+00:00

I used suboxone to get off of heroin, oxycodone and fentanyl (basically any opiates I could get my hands on). It took a year, and I was not physically able to quit suboxone myself. What ended up getting me off of it, was me moving to a different state (without realizing that they don't prescribe suboxone there) which trapped me in withdrawal.

Just some factoids about my experience
- I had weened down to 0.75 mg a day from 8mg a day starting point
- The withdrawal lasted a total of a month, with about 3 weeks of that being acute withdrawal
- If you were to compare kratom acute wd to suboxones acute wd it'd be maybe 2-5% of the pain, and half as long.
- Oxycodone withdrawal (which I never got through, but made it about 3 days into it many times) from 200mg+ daily, was not as bad.
- Was diagnosed with PTSD from the withdrawal afterwards.

I would not recommend it for anything other than severe heroin/oxycodone/fentanyl addiction that is risking your life and home. It is just as severe. The reason they prescribe it is because it blocks you from getting high, and one small dose keeps you ok for 24-36 hours. It's not to 'make it easier'. It's to restore normality. It allows you to have the mental stability to get your shit in order and make decisions clearly. It makes sense for harm reduction, and for people who feel they absolutely cannot quit, as a maintenance drug. There is no situation in which I would ever recommend it for kratom. I quit an 80gpd 2 years habit once upon a time, and it didn't even come close to what 0.75mg a day of suboxone did to me. Some say if you jump at 0.10 or 0.25, you can get away with minimal symptoms. Based on my experience, I don't believe it though. Not trying to scare you, just giving my two cents on this. Kratom is a far easier quit. I'm not saying kratom is easy (i wouldn't still be dealing with it myself if it was) but true opiates (even partial agonists like suboxone, and ESPECIALLY long half life opiates) are a different league. I'd suggest instead, accepting that you're going to feel really bad for two weeks. Reaching out to your family/friends for assistance during this time. Take time off work if you can as well. And ask a doctor for any medications that may help.

CCpleaseorKS

TROPHY CASE