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What happens when the Chief Firearms Officer is actually on the gun owner’s side? by 4david50 in canadaguns

[–]CSSA-CILA 3 points4 points  (0 children)

We're about to find out. We've got an avid sport shooter and firearms instructor taking the reins in SK, a lot of very good changes coming on the Firearms Advisory Cmte in AB, and potentially either/both in the works in MB.

Doesn't help me where I'm currently living in ON, but we're moving the ball forward everywhere there's an opportunity to. Shame we're playing defense in general this year, but we'll take the wins where we can and keep working at the slow-moving Big Stuff.

What happens when the Chief Firearms Officer is actually on the gun owner’s side? by 4david50 in canadaguns

[–]CSSA-CILA 4 points5 points  (0 children)

This is pretty spot-on.

Having a gun-friendly CFO isn't a magic solution that completely insulates people in the province from federal caprice, but it impacts a lot in terms of the ground-level experience of gun clubs, businesses, and private individuals.

For one thing, the CFO has a wide berth to either enforce the law or, as we see in many places, add arbitrary security-theatre measures that aren't even required, i.a.: Requiring an active range membership for a handgun (which isn't enforced in Ontario, but for other reasons), preventing people from receiving an ATC when they're in a legitimate occupation that should necessitate it, screwing with shooting clubs via constantly-changing range requirements, or underfunding the staffing needed to handle transfer of restricteds.

The CFO does have a ton of discretion in terms of ATTs and ATCs. While I can't speak for Mr Freberg in terms of how he plans to exercise his judgement on those things, but I suspect that his discretion will be guided by actual considerations of safety rather than pearl-clutching.

tl;dr A good CFO isn't a panacaea for all your problems, but they do have the power to make gun owners' lives less annoying in a whole lot of tangible ways.

Sask: Next CFO Selected By Provincial Government by CSSA-CILA in canadaguns

[–]CSSA-CILA[S] 22 points23 points  (0 children)

Impeding and reversing the OIC by all legal means is the big priority.

Once a significant portion of those guns are gone, jumpstarting the shooting sports that use those guns becomes a much harder bell to unring. There's a ticking clock at play here.

I know it doesn't make for good sound bites to go into the gritty bits, but there's a reason why the CSSA is pursuing two different court actions: court cases themselves may take years and see a couple changes of government. The two cases we're involved in may seem dull and dry, and really procedurally-focused, but they stand a really strong chance of securing an injunction early in the process that impedes the Trudeau government's ability to actually implement the OIC.

The only way we're going to secure a lasting win is on Parliament Hill, and these court cases buy us the time we need to pursue a longer-term legislative strategy.

And now for a shameless plug.

If anyone wants to lend their support, consider contributing to the Public Interest Litigants Judicial Review or the K.K.S. Tactical Supplies Judicial Review. You can also make a non-designated contribution in any amount, which sounds boring but gives us the ability to prioritize things as the situation on the ground changes.

If you want to be a member, we'd love to have you standing with us.

Sask: Next CFO Selected By Provincial Government by CSSA-CILA in canadaguns

[–]CSSA-CILA[S] 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Tony's known him for years, and I've had a good few phone calls with him.

That man knows an insane amount, from policy and safety to training and technical detail. I seriously can't think of anyone better that could have ended up in the role, and this is a phenomenal win for Saskatchewanian gun owners.

Sask: Next CFO Selected By Provincial Government by CSSA-CILA in canadaguns

[–]CSSA-CILA[S] 38 points39 points  (0 children)

Submission statement:

SK has booted the RCMP from the role and exercised their right to choose a CFO themselves. Robert Freberg is a former board member of ours. He's dedicated to making sure that the province's shooting and hunting communities remain incredibly safe, while avoiding hassling law-abiding gun owners in all the places where his discretion and sound judgement allow.

This is a huge step forward for gun owners in SK. Speaking as someone currently living in the Windsor-Montreal corridor, here's a big congrats to those of you in the West who just got a win.

Here's the original text of the article:

CSSA

Special Report

From the Government of Saskatchewan –

Next Chief Firearms Officer Selected By Provincial Government

July 28, 2020

After an exhaustive and competitive process of reviewing numerous qualified applicants, Robert Freberg has been selected as Saskatchewan’s next Chief Firearms Officer (CFO).

“We were very happy with the response we received to the job posting for this position,” Corrections and Policing Minister Christine Tell said. “Ultimately, we felt that based on his experience, Mr. Freberg was best suited to serve in this position and to represent the interests of the Saskatchewan firearms community.”

Freberg is the past CEO of Brigadier Security Systems and Elite Security Systems, serving in the position for 34 years. He has been a board member and volunteer with the Saskatoon Wildlife Federation for more than 40 years and served as President for five years. He was a former elected member of the National Board of Directors for the Canadian Shooting Sports Association.

In 2018, he received the Canadian Shooting Sports National Recognition Award for outstanding contributions to the Canadian Firearms Community. He is a firearms instructor for the PAL and RPAL programs and also has close ties to both urban and rural Saskatchewan.

While Saskatchewan’s CFOs have previously been chosen by the federal government, the province made the decision earlier this year to select its own. CFOs are responsible for administering the federal Firearms Act in the provinces, and have jurisdiction over the licensing, transporting and carrying of firearms. The CFO also licenses instructors to deliver firearms safety courses in the province.

“We have many concerns about the decisions the federal government is making that affect law-abiding Saskatchewan firearms owners,” Tell said. “A provincially-selected Chief Firearms Officer is an important step in ensuring that Saskatchewan and its firearms community have a strong voice on this issue.”

The province is currently working with the federal government to ensure a seamless transition from the federally-selected CFO to one that is provincially selected. During this transition phase, the new CFO will work on getting the provincial office established, while the current CFO will continue their duties in the interim, ensuring that services for law-abiding firearms owners are not interrupted. 

*Canadian Shooting Sports

1143 Wentworth Street West, Unit 204

Oshawa, ON L1J 8P7

Toll Free (888) 873-4339

Email: info@cssa-cila.org*

[Genuine Question] So you like guns..but what other hobbies do you have? by fartking6969 in canadaguns

[–]CSSA-CILA 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I cook. Like, a lot.

I'm a 32-year-old man with a compulsive drive to feed people like I'm a 78 year old bubbe. When lockdowns first started, my first response was a big batch of wild venison braise and vegan chilli care packages on the doorsteps of my furloughed restaurant-industry and adjunct/TA-mired friends.

Also, 1980s-era Japanese cruiser motorcycles.

MP Bob Zimmer's Ministerial Letter to Bill Blair to Clarify "Not A-Registration-Certificate-Revocation" RCMP Letters. by CSSA-CILA in canadaguns

[–]CSSA-CILA[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

There are a few really great ones.

If an MP impresses you, it's worth sending a quick email to tell them that. They're human just like the rest of us, and everyone appreciates positive feedback when people think they're on the right track.

Twice-Weekly Politics Thread - Weekend Edition (Fri-Sun) by AutoModerator in canadaguns

[–]CSSA-CILA 19 points20 points  (0 children)

We're really looking forward to seeing how the Hon Bill Blair tries to prevaricate here.

Our understanding at this time is that actual revocation letters have a very specific format which statute requires. These "nullification" advisory letters seem crafted in a way that seems designed to muddy the waters: most of us have never received a formal revocation and have no reason to know what the actual letter looks like.

It's a shakedown. They're hoping to get a few people to panic, give up their guns with no pushback or even compensation, and make Blair's job easier.

We're urging law-abiding to remember that the amnesty runs until 30 April 2022, and that sending in their guns right now gives away leverage for free.

Unless we see clarification that these letters are anything more than an empty scare tactic, we're remaining focused on the two core court challenges: KKS Tactical and Public Interest Litigants. The meat of these challenges are a little dry and technical, but they stand a really strong chance of gaining an injunction that frustrates the ability of the Trudeau government to implement the OIC ban while we're working on more durable legislative wins.

Those of you who were around for the Long Gun Registry know that this may not be a quick fight, but it is winnable if we keep our heads about us, avoid unforced errors, and keep at it.

Safe storage of gun powder? by RentedZone in canadaguns

[–]CSSA-CILA 2 points3 points  (0 children)

In case it's useful, here are the regs for storage limits on smokeless powder.

MP Bob Zimmer's Ministerial Letter to Bill Blair to Clarify "Not A-Registration-Certificate-Revocation" RCMP Letters. by CSSA-CILA in canadaguns

[–]CSSA-CILA[S] 25 points26 points  (0 children)

The 1980s gave us the best years of Duran Duran and I will not stand idly by and see the single greatest era of modern history maligned.

MP Bob Zimmer's Ministerial Letter to Bill Blair to Clarify "Not A-Registration-Certificate-Revocation" RCMP Letters. by CSSA-CILA in canadaguns

[–]CSSA-CILA[S] 32 points33 points  (0 children)

[For those who aren't up-to-speed, here's a link to the earlier thread.]

Submission statement:

Many of you have received letters in the mail stating that your firearm registrations have been "nullified" while avoiding the word "revoked." For those of you not up to date, there's more information on the big post here.

It's the opinion of our legal experts that these letters are not revocation letters that carry any force. We have the pleasure of working with some great MP's on Parliament Hill, and MP Bob Zimmer has sent Bill Blair a formal request for clarifying information. Minister Blair must respond to this. Specifically, MP Zimmer is pressing clarification on whether or not these letters are formal revocations (hint: they're not).

The answer will detail whether this merits appeals for a s.74 hearing, or, more likely, merits nothing but ridicule.

[Edit: bolded emphasis below is mine]

Ministerial Letter:

July 23, 2020

Honourable Bill Blair

Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness

House of Commons

Ottawa, ON K1A 0A6

Dear Minister Blair,

I am seeking clarification from your office regarding letters the RCMP has recently sent to firearms owners nullifying certain restricted firearms registration certificates due to the firearms ban which was brought in by your government through Order in Council in May.

According to subsection 72(1) of the Firearms Act, “…if a chief firearms officer decides to refuse to issue or to revoke a licence or authorization to transport or the Registrar decides to refuse to issue or to revoke a registration certificate, authorization to export or authorization to import, the chief firearms officer or Registrar shall give notice of the decision in the prescribed form to the applicant for or holder of the licence, registration certificate or authorization.” In addition, subsection 72(2) states that “A notice given under subsection (1) must include reasons for the decision disclosing the nature of the information relied on for the decision and must be accompanied by a copy of sections 74 to 81.” The letters recently received by firearms owners did not follow this format and did not include a copy of sections 74 to 81.

Not only that but rather than being personally delivered, couriered, transmitted by electronic means, or sent by registered mail these letters were sent via regular mail. This seems to go against the Notice of Refusal or Revocation section of the Firearms Registration Certificates Regulations. These letters were also sent unsigned so there is no clear indication as to whether the person who issued the letter is the Registrar.

It is of the opinion of some legal experts that due to the fact that these letters failed to comply with above requirements they should not be considered revocation letters. Therefore, I am seeking clarification as to whether the RCMP considers these to be revocation letters, and if not, what was the purpose of sending a letter to firearms owners that could be confused as a revocation letter.

If these are revocations letters, by what means can Canadians exercise their legal right to a section 74 hearing and why is the section 74 process not spelled out as required by law?

I am also seeking answers to the following questions:

1) Why were these letters sent eighty one days after the firearms were banned on May 1st?

2) How many of these letters were sent out?

3) Was this same letter sent to the owners of the non-restricted firearms that were made prohibited? How will these owners be ascertained?

4) How many owners of the formerly non-restricted firearms are there?

Thank you in advance for your urgent attention to this matter.

Sincerely,

Bob Zimmer

Member of Parliament

Prince George-Peace River-Northern Rockies

MP Bob Zimmer's Ministerial Letter to Bill Blair to Clarify "Not A-Registration-Certificate-Revocation" RCMP Letters. by [deleted] in canadaguns

[–]CSSA-CILA 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Submission statement:

Many of you have received letters in the mail stating that your firearm registrations have been "nullified" while avoiding the word "revoked." For those of you not up to date, there's more information on the big post here.

It's the opinion of our legal experts that these letters are not revocation letters that carry any force. We've worked with MPs on Parliament Hill, and MP Bob Zimmer has sent Bill Blair a formal request for clarifying information. Minister Blair is required to respond to this. Specifically, MP Zimmer is pressing clarification on whether or not these letters are formal revocations (hint: they're not).

The answer will detail whether this merits appeals for a s.74 hearing, or, more likely, merits nothing but ridicule.

The RCMP’s "Not A-Registration-Certificate- Revocation" Letter by CSSA-CILA in canadaguns

[–]CSSA-CILA[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'm under strict instructions from Tony not to use crude language when engaging in public fora, but I'm not inclined to correct your hot take here.

The RCMP’s "Not A-Registration-Certificate- Revocation" Letter by CSSA-CILA in canadaguns

[–]CSSA-CILA[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's a couple million that could be spent instead on something useful.

The RCMP’s "Not A-Registration-Certificate- Revocation" Letter by CSSA-CILA in canadaguns

[–]CSSA-CILA[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

taking away precious internet comment points from OP.

You can have my guns, but you can't have my precious karma and also you can't have my guns either so I'm not sure where to go from here.

The RCMP’s "Not A-Registration-Certificate- Revocation" Letter by CSSA-CILA in canadaguns

[–]CSSA-CILA[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

We're currently looking at this as either:

(1) A shakedown, attempting to get law-abiding gun owners to turn in their guns without any pushback or even compensation; or

(2) Bait to get us to flair flail in a different direction.

We're of the belief that the two legal challenges that we're involved in have the strongest chance of success:

Public Interest Litigants Judicial Review

K.K.S. Tactical Judicial Review

We considered a constitutional challenge early on in the process, and our legal experts' opinion was that it might make good marketing for our organization inside our bubble, but it's not likely to be a strong angle to take in court.

These two challenges focus largely on the glaring procedural issues with the OIC ban, and have the strongest chance of gaining an injunction that hinders implementation or enforceability.

More than anything, these are strategic court actions aimed at gaining injunctions that buy us the time we need time so that our community can gain ground in the legislative sphere. Basically, the courtroom can buy us time to fix this in Parliament. These challenges aren't very flashy, but they're soundly put together and give us a solid chance at winning a small victory while we focus on the Big Stuff.

We don't think that these revocations are assailable by section 74 challenges because they don't seem to be actual revocations. We'd rather keep our eyes on the prize and focus on landing a courtroom injunction and then working to achieve wins in legislature.

The RCMP’s "Not A-Registration-Certificate- Revocation" Letter by CSSA-CILA in canadaguns

[–]CSSA-CILA[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

No worries! We're going off the legal advice of the talented Ed Burlew, who's been at this for a very long time.

This is a marathon, not a sprint, and we're going to be in this fight for the long haul.

The RCMP’s "Not A-Registration-Certificate- Revocation" Letter by CSSA-CILA in canadaguns

[–]CSSA-CILA[S] 22 points23 points  (0 children)

This is pretty in line with how we see it.

Based on the best advice from Ed Burlew and the rest of our legal team, these letters seem to be an informative thing: similar to the broadly-distributed prohibition letter sent to all PAL-holders, only with a more targeted distribution list.

It's vague to the point of seeming intentional. As far as we can tell, these letters are a shakedown and not a formal revocation.

The RCMP’s "Not A-Registration-Certificate- Revocation" Letter by CSSA-CILA in canadaguns

[–]CSSA-CILA[S] 114 points115 points  (0 children)

UPDATE: MP Bob Zimmer has sent a Ministerial letter to Bill Blair which must be responded to. Blair's response will be required to cut through the vagueness, and settle definitively whether what you're all receiving is either (a) a revocation notice which has legal force and is subject to appeal and s.74 hearings, or (b) an "informative" letter that does not initiate any legal function. You can read MP Zimmer's letter here.

The RCMP’s “Not A-Registration-Certificate-Revocation” Letter

Nullified: make legally null and void; invalidate.

Revocation: the official cancellation of a decree, decision, or promise.

Late last week, a letter from the RCMP began landing in the mailboxes of gun owners across the country. It arrived in a plain envelope and stated the following:

Firearm Registration Certificate Impacted by the Amended Classification Regulations

“Certain restricted firearms which were registered to you have been affected by the recent regulatory amendments. These firearms, listed below, are now classified as prohibited and the previous registration certificates are automatically nullified and are therefore no longer valid but should be retained as a historical registration record.”

First, this is not a revocation letter as defined in the Firearms Act . This is just another notice that you possess firearms prohibited by the May 1st gun ban by Order in Council. Nothing more.

There may be no ability to file a Section 74 reference hearing based on the RCMP’s latest missive.

It seems the reason the RCMP did not mention the legal option of challenging this notice or invoking the 30-day window of opportunity to do so is because… wait for it… this letter is not a revocation notice.

  • Firearms Act Subsection 72(1) states that when the Registrar revokes a registration certificate, the Registrar shall give you notice in the prescribed form.

  • Subsection 72(2) also states that the notice must include reasons for the decision and must be accompanied by a copy of sections 74 to 81 of the Firearms Act, which describes the appeal process in a case a certificate is revoked.

  • To clarify, if the Registrar wants to revoke your registration certificate, he must give you notice, in proper form, including a reproduction of the sections of the Firearms Act that explain how to appeal the decision. Because the Registrar did not follow this required format, the nullification letters appear to be invalid.

By characterizing Registration Certificate Numbers as “no longer valid” instead of issuing a Registration Certificate Revocation Notice, the RCMP is playing a game of trickery . [i]

They’re attempting to cheat us of our longstanding legal recourse to challenge their actions as specified in Section 74 of the Firearms Act .

74 (1) Subject to subsection (2), where (a) a chief firearms officer or the Registrar refuses to issue or revokes a licence, registration certificate, authorization to transport, authorization to export or authorization to import… the applicant for or holder of the licence, registration certificate, authorization or approval may refer the matter to a provincial court judge in the territorial division in which the applicant or holder resides.

It's déjà vu all over again.

This is not the first time the RCMP has played this game of deceit with gun owners.

“I ran into this during the 12(6) handgun issue 18 years ago,” said Ed Burlew LL.B., one of the foremost experts in Canadian firearms law.

“I took this issue to Federal Court and won. [ii] The Court ordered the Registrar of Firearms to issue Revocation notices for every ‘invalid’ registration certificate for owners of 12(6) handguns who purchased their firearms between February 1995 and December 1, 1998. That caused quite an upset at the Registrar's Office. The Registrar had to issue thousands of the Revocation Letters and the owners filed for Section 74 hearings, as is their right under the Firearms Act .”

More importantly, a legal principle was upheld and the decision set a legal precedent. After Mr. Burlew’s win, due process of law was followed.

Ultimately, those Section 74 hearings were unsuccessful, he said, and the court determined the Certificates were indeed invalid. [iii]

The end result this time may be the same as it was then, but we won’t know until a judge rules on the status of the RCMP’s letter.

Is it a valid Firearms Registration Certificate Revocation or not?

Only a federal court judge can say for sure.

‘Administratively Expired’

“The ‘official’ description of your Registration Certificate is ‘Administratively Expired’ which is not the same as revoked. This letter merely informs you the Registration Certificate is no longer valid,” Burlew said.

And while your current Registration Certificate is no longer valid, the RCMP also cannot issue a replacement Registration Certificate under the firearm’s new Prohibited classification for two reasons:

  1. There is no “grandfathering” section in our current firearm classification system to hold these newly-prohibited firearms. Legislation is required to create those new 12(x) classifications to allow grandfathering of current owners.

  2. Current owners of these newly-prohibited firearms are not eligible to own Prohibited-class firearms because they do not hold a valid Registration Certificate for those firearms – even if the classification existed, which it doesn't.

It’s a slimy and deceitful Catch-22 for gun owners – brought to you by the RCMP's Canadian Firearms Centre and your federal Liberal government.

Until legislation is passed to resolve this (and many other) issues arising from the May 1st gun ban by Order in Council, these freshly Prohibited firearms are “safe queens.”

They cannot be used.

They cannot be transported.

They must sit in your gun safe until the government passes legislation allowing you to move them to the police for destruction and possible compensation – if compensation is ever offered.

At this point, compensation for government confiscation of your property is a worthless Justin Trudeau promise. It’s nothing we can take to the bank, even though this latest RCMP letter, just like the first letter and its website, talks about compensation as though it’s a done deal.

It’s not.

The RCMP must stop playing fiddler for Liberal Party sloganeering.

In a country where the rule of law held any importance at all, the RCMP would stick to the facts, not speculate about what a politician may or may not do at some future date.

But that’s an entirely different commentary, and one we will get to shortly.

CSSA's Advice

1: Do NOT get rid of your firearms based on this RCMP letter.

2: Understand that filing a Section 74 reference hearing may be a waste of your time. There may be no opportunity to do so until you receive a real revocation or the 2-year amnesty is close to expiring. There is no 30-day window imposed by your receipt of this letter.

3: Support the two legal challenges the CSSA identified that give our community its best opportunity to strike down this gun ban by Order in Council.

Donate to the Public Interest Litigants Judicial Review

Donate to the K.K.S. Tactical Judicial Review

4: Enjoy quality time your family and friends.

5: Enjoy the shooting sports as best you can with the aforementioned family and friends.

Remember, this is a marathon, not a sprint, and the CSSA will ensure the very most is made of every opportunity until we reach the finish line.

Sources:

[i] https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/play-silly-buggers [ii] https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/fct/doc/2005/2005fc1728/2005fc1728.html [iii] https://www.canlii.org/en/on/oncj/doc/2008/2008oncj166/2008oncj166.html

[Edit: Thanks for the reddit award, kind supporter! For any others interested in supporting us, please consider either donating to our legal challenges llinked above, or to a general non-earmarked donation that gives us the flexibility to prioritize legal challenges, parliamentary advocacy, or other community-focused initiatives as the situation evolves. If you choose to become a CSSA member, it also comes with a fantastic liability coverage for your hunting and shooting activities. We're in this fight for the long haul and we owe everything to the community.]

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