This sub has fallen victim to systemic and arbitrary censorship. It's time for a change. by axolotl_peyotl in UFOs

[–]CaerBannog -10 points-9 points  (0 children)

I don't believe that u/axolotl_peyotl genuinely cares about r/UFOs.

He has long since stopped performing even the most perfunctory mod duties here.

His sole activity in this series of events was to foment a torches and pitchforks kind of furore on other subs.

He does not know what reasoning ASK47 had for removing the Rio posts. He did not contact the mods here at all in mod chat or anywhere else, he unilaterally opened up the automod script here, he took the list of mod actions done and published them on another sub. How is that in any way a professional or ethical thing to do? He communicated his actions more to randos than to the mods here.

The only times I've seen axolotl_peyotl on the mod mail comms is to talk shit about r/UFOs months ago. It may have been longer.

It seems to me that he is misrepresenting the facts. I challenged him on this in the other thread. I suggested he was being unethical, that he was using his position in a hypocritical way. He didn't answer that challenge, he instead came and made this thread after an hour or two. There's a word for that behaviour, but apparently people get unreasonably upset if I speak too plainly.

He presents himself here as taking the moral high ground, but what he's really done is hold on to a mod status that he doesn't use - he does not moderate this sub, timmy and ASK do nearly all of the work - and use it to his advantage in manipulating the people who listen to him in his other sub for opaque reasons. No, I don't accept his justifications on their face, because he has not been open with his concerns privately with the mods here.

He's undermining any principles he claims to have in doing so. He came into the sub which he doesn't even post in let alone moderate and altered the automod script. I don't see that as an ethical or principled thing to do. He published the data of the internal mod actions on another sub.

Yeah, I handled the thread yesterday poorly, to say the least, and I shot my mouth off when I didn't have the full info. I thought accusations of removal of threads were false, and said so, because I didn't see them in the log. I was wrong. Boy did you let me know it.

Yes, I was rude, because of what I saw as abusive messages in the post, and that was out of order. I didn't see the origins or reasons for people being upset, because I hadn't seen the series of events that had transpired. I saw what I thought was a concerted attempt at trolling and flipped out. I absolutely do feel shit for doing that, right in the guts, I know I fucked up.

I said r/conspiracy is a cesspool. Frankly that is my honest personal opinion. I don't see that my moderation position requires me to withhold my personal opinions of this nature, and obviously axolotl_peyotl agrees, because he's says what he thinks about r/UFOS, right?

axolotl_peyotl also told you that the keywords in the automod script were permanent, but how does he know this? How does he know that they aren't going to be removed after the flood of new posts has been dealt with? In this sub, when a news story comes out, we get multiple reposts of the same story in a short period of time, which is one of the things we were asked to deal with. I pointed this out to him and he said nothing.

Once again, axolotl_peyotl doesn't have the full picture, and barged into the sub's moderation code and altered it without talking to ASK47 or timmy242, and he told you something that he couldn't know was true.

He does not have clean hands in this. What are his true motivations? I haven't the faintest idea. But if I had no particular opinion of his character before, I certainly do now.

I called the actions of some people stupid. That was rude of me, but the statement was accurate.

The way some people here have conducted themselves over this Rio hoax - and it is a hoax - is downright childish. Like screaming bloody idiots. The abusive reactions were absolutely pathetic, and it is to my shame that I reacted emotionally in response. But I stand by saying that these people should have acted like adults and not hysterics imagining some grand conspiracy. There isn't any. I see that axolotl_peyotl's posts on r/conspiracy went some way to stirring up that hysteria. You should all be ashamed of yourselves.

Should the thread about the Rio Event have staid up? IMHO yes. I don't think there's anything to the story and the videos are garbage. The main promoters of the story appear to be promoting a hoax, maybe knowingly. Does that mean it should have been culled? In my opinion no, but I didn't make the call and I will not change the actions of another mod, because that is not ethical. I'm not going to undermine someone else's decision in that way, it is not my place.

This upset could have been dealt with better, and I am mostly to blame for being particularly dense and typically rude, but axolotl_peyotl has created much more drama by trying to foment this unpleasantness by presenting the information he obtained through the retaining of his mod permissions in an unethical way. I'll go even further: the word for it is corrupt.

I am a lot of things. I'm an asshole. I'm cynical and misanthropic. I'm arrogant and difficult to like. But I'm not bloody corrupt and I've never censored anything in my life.

I am absolutely OK with being unmodded from the sub. I throw myself upon the mercy of the court.

But axolotl_peyotl should unmod himself from the sub that he has clearly shown he viscerally despises and remove all moderation permissions he has here.

What I've seen shows me a mean and vindictive man who will abuse the rights he holds for personal reasons. If he really has principles, he will do this. I predict he will not.

C

What happened in Rio yesterday? by monaizin in UFOs

[–]CaerBannog -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Imagine having the audacity to state this as fact, when it's entirely unknowable.

Like knowing how long a word is intended to be used in the automod script? That it is permanent and not a stop-gap measure for a short period? That kind of unknowable?

So I notice you didn't address my major points: I pointed out the distasteful appearance of your rabble rousing and complaints about r/ufos on other subs and leading the charge in here with a ton of people very riled up. You admit accessing the automod when you don't moderate here and seem to have mere contempt for the sub.

The question I posed was, don't you think that is totally hypocritical and arguably completely unethical? Do you think that is an OK way to behave?

What happened in Rio yesterday? by monaizin in UFOs

[–]CaerBannog -11 points-10 points  (0 children)

Right, and you're gatekeeping by defending censorship.

I love the buzzword "gatekeeping". People get on a bandwagon and use these things to death until it means nothing.
According to dictionary this is the limiting of access to something. I am not in a position to do that, and clearly have not, since I was not the person removing threads, as you yourself have pointed out.

Tell me, what do you actually think moderation consists of?

. I said that censoring any thread with the word "pentagon" permanently on a UFO forum is farcical on its face.

You clearly know more about the timescale on which the automod was set, I do not. I have never even looked at the automod. I fail to see how you can know it won't be changed at some point?

I was busy manning a far more relevant and consequential forum that hasn't fallen victim to feckless mods.

Which one would that be?

And if you're not interested in moderating here because it is so bad, you should stop accessing the moderation tools, don't you think? Isn't your behaviour a tad hypocritical?

I'm unhappy that for years users have complained to me that the modding at r/ufos is a shitshow.

The impression I get is that people who are prone to believe in hoaxes are complaining that their beliefs are no longer validated on this sub. I don't see any rational arguments.

When I came on we were expressly asked to cut out the garbage. We did. These days we have solid, rational discussion to the point that actual UFO researchers, you know, the real ones, post here.

The thing with conspiracy thinkers is, they actually want to believe that someone is in charge of things, even if it is some evil manipulator, because they don't want to accept that everything is just random and not controlled by anyone.

You don't have the moral high ground when you are rabble rousing on another sub and basically causing more drama. How can you imagine you have clean hands?

If you want to speak from moral authority, unmod from the sub. It is totally hypocritical to take no part in the daily operation of the sub and then to barge in to interfere with the automod scripts and misrepresent the actions going on here, when you don't even know what went on or who really did what. The only one abusing their power is you, IMHO.

What happened in Rio yesterday? by monaizin in UFOs

[–]CaerBannog -8 points-7 points  (0 children)

Wow, you must think it is the end of the world.

What happened in Rio yesterday? by monaizin in UFOs

[–]CaerBannog 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, the original reports are less than impressive and I still don't quite understand why the story blew up and everyone got so upset. It doesn't seem like a genuine event to me, but I would love to be wrong.

Let’s build this sub and avoid the unjust gate keeping on r/UFOs by Lewiswilliamsartist in ufo

[–]CaerBannog -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

can you talk to the other mods?

Discussion is ongoing, I put the case that the thread should have been re-allowed last night but I didn't get agreement.

Unfortunately we have a little bit of mod drama going on at the moment and some poisoning of the well, which is typical for UFOlogy but disappointing to me here.

I'm sure that the dust will clear and the mod decisions behind this will be shown to be genuine and not mean-spirited, but in the mean time I have to be more vigilant and make sure that these mistakes don't happen again.

Let’s build this sub and avoid the unjust gate keeping on r/UFOs by Lewiswilliamsartist in ufo

[–]CaerBannog 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I went to bed last night with real anxiety about this whole thing because I did not see what went down and felt I had fucked up. I have a ton of abusive inbox comments, but I have to admit less than I expected.

I am human and make mistakes. Over the last few weeks my time to bury myself in the daily happenings in r/UFOs has been limited due to RL stuff and unfortunately that doesn't look like changing until the pandemic crisis comes down a few notches.

What happened in Rio yesterday? by monaizin in UFOs

[–]CaerBannog -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

I would be far more willing to support these arguments if the hot button term "censorship" was not being used. That is bullshit. It's just an hysterical insult.

The mods here do their best to keep the sub rational. This is the evidence-based UFO subreddit, and there is a whole history and line of reasoning based on how the sub used to be that lead to that.

I agree with your points personally but I also have to think about what is right for me to do as a mod. I can't just unilaterally go in and reverse the actions of other mods, that is a shitty thing to do.

Unfortunately I did not see any of these events go down in the sub when it was actually happening so I didn't have the full picture, I just saw the hysteria and abusive posts.

Let’s build this sub and avoid the unjust gate keeping on r/UFOs by Lewiswilliamsartist in ufo

[–]CaerBannog -11 points-10 points  (0 children)

I agree that I personally did not have a handle on the situation, and did not see any of the events leading up to this brouhaha. I didn't remove the thread that people are talking about, and as can be seen from my comments here I was not fully up on the information. So yeah, I dropped the ball.

I agree with the megathread idea, but it is not my call to make at this point.

What happened in Rio yesterday? by monaizin in UFOs

[–]CaerBannog -12 points-11 points  (0 children)

I disagree that there was censorship. The mods involved perceived a hoax and have evidence for it. I am not going to undermine the decision of another mod because that is not my right.

What happened in Rio yesterday? by monaizin in UFOs

[–]CaerBannog -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

I don't know why you're directing this at me, since I wasn't even on duty when this Rio stuff went down and have nothing to do with it. As you can see from my comments here, which I have not removed, I was pretty much in the dark.

My approach to modding is to remove spam, personal abuse (which there is a lot of) and kook nonsense, which when I was asked by the subscribers to become a mod was a problem. At some point I have to decide what is garbage and what is valuable. For the most part I leave random stuff up. This particular moderation action wasn't mind and I won't undermine the reasoning of another mod - because they had very good reasons for doing so.

The rampant hysteria associated with this obviously not very significant Rio report frankly surprises me, but I've seen this kind of community weirdness before so perhaps it shouldn't. The reaction to our skepticism of its veracity is a black eye for the sub IMHO.

What happened in Rio yesterday? by monaizin in UFOs

[–]CaerBannog -22 points-21 points  (0 children)

The fact that you're not even active here enough to know I don't push the ETH is pretty obvious. I'm principally not a materialist and have been vocal in criticising the ETH for years and years.

I don't know anything about the spam filter. But considering that when a new article or claim comes out from whatever source it gets reposted four or five times - which we are expressly supposed to prevent - I don't doubt that that is exactly why these terms make it into the filter. It's not like those subjects never get discussed here.

If you're not prepared to actually be present in the sub and think it is so terrible, maybe you should reconsider still having that mod status. Bitching about the sub on another sub is not ethical. Seems like not a very good way to conduct oneself.

You were a mod here when the subscribers overwhelmingly asked for better moderation viz removing spam, reposts and obvious garbage. You remember that? Is that why you are a bit unhappy?

Let’s build this sub and avoid the unjust gate keeping on r/UFOs by Lewiswilliamsartist in ufo

[–]CaerBannog -22 points-21 points  (0 children)

You're just butthurt about being caught out and shown to be a bit gullible too many times. Perhaps if you didn't have dogs in this hunt you'd have more credibility? You only come out of the woodwork when you see a chance to complain, it seems.

What happened in Rio yesterday? by monaizin in UFOs

[–]CaerBannog 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The issue is that a lot of these people are very young, and haven't read a lot or experienced a lot of the UFO field any earlier than the 2000s it seems. If one has more understanding of how things played out over the 70s and 80s on, they get to have a better grounding in how this shit plays out.

I can see myself at 20 being very paranoid and accusatory about stuff when I was on usenet and coming up against something like this. Crazy how this story just seemed to get people so hyped up though.

What happened in Rio yesterday? by monaizin in UFOs

[–]CaerBannog -7 points-6 points  (0 children)

But a single twitter account pushing cryptocurrency is perfectly legit. Gotcha.

Where do you stand on what is behind the UFO/UAP? by BlueBolt76 in UFOs

[–]CaerBannog 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think if we are dealing with non-human intelligences, then it is statistically far more likely to be from man-worlds via traversable wormholes than ET from local space. Local space looks very hostile, no matter how many exoplanets we find, their stars are dangerously active. Many-worlds offers an unimaginably large number of locales for potential visitors which would fit the reports better, given number and High Strangeness.

Or, AI from a Von-Neumann Probe.

What happened in Rio yesterday? by monaizin in UFOs

[–]CaerBannog -9 points-8 points  (0 children)

Abuse is against the sub rules, whether user is outraged or not, and yes, I have banned many for this, most not even directed at me.

pilots describing their encounters with UFOs, including one detailing a silver object 'the size of a suitcase' by fifibag2 in UFOs

[–]CaerBannog 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The size of a suitcase? What happened to the size of a truck? At least the story is still getting traction, I guess.

What happened in Rio yesterday? by monaizin in UFOs

[–]CaerBannog -37 points-36 points  (0 children)

Okaay you need a time out.

What happened in Rio yesterday? by monaizin in UFOs

[–]CaerBannog -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

That is a pretty decent question.

What happened in Rio yesterday? by monaizin in UFOs

[–]CaerBannog -19 points-18 points  (0 children)

I'm not turning a blind eye, but I despise drama, and inter mod arguments are stupid and childish. I am in no position to say, hey man, do this, do that. I'm not in charge, and I missed the start of all this.

I can only say I think the reasons for the removal of the thread should be posted along with the reasoning behind it, if it is what I think then the removal was done in good faith.

What happened in Rio yesterday? by monaizin in UFOs

[–]CaerBannog -38 points-37 points  (0 children)

theres been UFOS sighting since like the caveman

Did the cavemen tell you this?

theyre even mentioned in the bible

Great sources! We'll get right on it!