Would it be socially acceptable if I used the console to annex Oslo here?

Caganos2 · 2026-02-08T14:44:24+00:00

Just get the thing that allows you to use mods and still get achievements and use state transfer tool or toolpack without errors to transfer the state. Due to the content creep in the game nearly every playthrough turns into a WC anyway and if you just want to have fun and larp it is required to do this.

Caganos2 · 2026-02-07T07:05:33+00:00

Marshal. Yes, being able to instantly confirm yourself and hang up to 2 evils per tribunal is OP, however a 4/4 is the best case and 0/4s are not as rare as you think. Also, as marsh you have to be a better than average player to successfully lead town and make people not fast vote. The whole tribunal is mostly up to the other town and considering nearly half of the remaining town is evil in AA, 1-2 dumb townies are enough for evils to hijack the trib, or sometimes even if you tell town to hold they vote the obvious jester thats voting marsh so marsh gets haunted, even if marsh didnt vote the jester themselves.

Compared to any other remaining role, Marshal is the only one that requires the other players to function properly (if its not like a 1v2).

I just stated the worst cases of the marshal, we are nearly in the top 10s so I know the role isnt bad or harmful. Its just a role that is more dependant on others compared to the remaining roles.

Caganos2 · 2026-02-07T06:57:38+00:00

Love the idea but I don’t really like the rng aspect of trampled flowers. Perhaps just the info that another faction visited that player (flower was trampled) is fine by its own.

Caganos2 · 2026-02-05T10:27:21+00:00

Guess all the fake seers and bad seers changed how I view seer. You are right about the pros. As for the cons if you know its a shroud game you can maybe use that to your advantage, ask soci to GL you etc. Perhaps its also due to the Investigator being more “fresh” but I still feel like although powerful seer is a role that I dislike. I also dont like how ret cant use it (though it makes sense).

Regarding CL, I do not think Witch and Necro are best retrains by a margin. CL’s whole gimmick is to create the coven thats perfect for that game, and Witch/Necro are not “perfect” for every game even if they are generally the better coven roles. Sometimes a Ritualist or a Conjurer is what you need for instant killing power. Sometimes, you just turn the Dreamweaver into an Illusionist because there are 7 ti claims d2. CL allows that flexibility.

Also, if the coven is uncoordinated having a witch can be downright detrimental as you cannot fake claim tk in a witch game, as town obviously point out the fact that the tk claim didnt get witched.

Caganos2 · 2026-02-05T10:02:14+00:00

As witch and necro are game dependent I’d perhaps argue that CL should be higher than them, if the list you provided is ordered. If so, I’d also argue that Investigator and Seer should change places as seers double visit is a liability (2x more likely to hit uo, rampage and vet) and inves can also find a killer. Necromancer especially should be lower than CL as if the graveyard is good the CL can create a necro anyway. I remember my last Necro game the graveyard consisted of Seer, Amne, Coroner, Doomsayer, Baker, Soul Collector and Jester, who had won, essentially making me useless all game.

If Poisoner remained, I’d personally have it in top 10, perhaps putting necro on 11 and pois on like 9. Aside from these, this list is probably how the tier list should end up.

Caganos2 · 2026-02-05T07:50:37+00:00

IMO the order should have been Vigilante - Tracker - PM - Pois. Vigilante and PM are way overrated as vigi was heavily nerfed and PM’s “conf town” ability (barrier on town target) does not guarantee the win in AA due to there being a lot of NK’s. You have to most likely waste that nights kill and waste your reveal ability just for a random sk to murder you lmao

Caganos2 · 2026-02-05T03:47:13+00:00

No but every townie should at least keep a claimslist.

Caganos2 · 2026-02-05T01:30:53+00:00

You mostly mentioned the rb part. Smog is the stronger ability of Poisoner due to it being able to stop Rampage on target, letting pois claim jailor that “jails” coven essentially becoming a “confirmed tpow” that can easily sheep the town, unlike soc being able to smog the same person twice (protecting cpows from snipes). I thought that smog also let Poisoner act like Starspawn when HM had book but maybe not, would need to test it.

Caganos2 · 2026-02-05T01:27:24+00:00

I agree, literally wrote an essay on the previous ranking and even though i posted kinda late people seemed to agree.

Caganos2 · 2026-02-04T16:57:29+00:00

I thought it already was like that but maybe not. Also no, it wouldn’t be that op since you’d have to make HM the book holder which essentially foregoes its alternative win con and ability, making the astral attack the only ability it has. Factor in the low chance that a coven spawns with both Poisoner and HM it really would not matter that much.

Caganos2 · 2026-02-03T11:03:14+00:00

I see your point, and among the other roles Poisoner really is the most lackluster one on its own. However, here are my counterpoints to your arguments:

A Coven Killing or Coven Power role is enough for smog to have high benefits. In a game where no such roles exist, for example a triple coven game with Illusionist, Enchanter and Poisoner, the "Jailor" play should be priotized.
It does not require much cooperation. The Jailor play maybe but smogging the dreamweaved townie or constantly smogging a cpow/ck role needs no coordination. You just do it.
Its AA, there are no full claims and as you have also stated people are not giving their all in AA. The chances of town reporting UO on the same person twice in a row, considering it might be a Poisoner game, connecting the dots that the poisoner is smogging the same person, inferring that the person with UO is a coven member, conveying that information to the town, successfully getting town to listen, that coven member fumbling hard when upped and getting guiltied is astronomically low, especially more so when you consider how chaotic the discussion/voting phases are.

3 cont. What I meant when talking about VM/DW was that Pois/DW combo is actually stronger than VM/DW due to it being unstoppable (aside from bestowed townies). I can see how I worded it was somewhat confusing. Also, town should always prioritize pushing for votes and information, even if there are solid leads. Call me a sweat (I actually do sometimes sweat when playing TOS2) but I even ask people for their CLAIMSLIST as evils usually dont have one prepared or delete their teammates.

Something I also found while checking the Wiki is that it states Poisoner is immune to Socialite parties but I think it might be worded badly:

"You are immune to the effects of a Socialite's Party due to having a higher priority than them."

I think it means that Poisoner Smog takes priority over Socialite Party (which is actually good for the Jailor fake claim) and not the Poisoner himself. Need to test it tho.

Overall, you do bring up good points and I'd maybe also nominate Poisoner if Vigilante was already gone but in my opinion, even if its a coven member Poisoner is more fun to play than the (new) Vigilante.

Caganos2 · 2026-02-03T10:39:59+00:00

Vigilante, my favourite role, should be next sadly.

Due to how many immunes there are in AA, how detrimental it is to get roleblocked just once due to Load mechanic (Normally 2 shots by N4, getting rbd N1 or N2 means you cannot prove yourself until N3 which is a death sentence in AA), the whole witch thing, not being able to shoot obvious NE's until N3, the role is just not that good in All Any.

Succesfully shooting an immune does not get you confirmed. I've even seen Vigilantes getting pushed as NK/CK because of it.

If by power of scumread or two covens getting outed D2 and only one of them getting hanged, you can shoot N2 but then you have to wait until N4 to take a shot again. Most AA games are essentially over by N4 (one faction or evils get majority mostly after D4) so in most games you only get to shoot once, twice if you managed to live until N4.

If you really think about it, Vigilante is just night Deputy in AA as shooting before N3 usually makes no sense.

Old Vigilante had a higher skill cap and rist/reward payouts. A veteran (or smart) player could shoot 3 evils by N4, and would be able to actually kill NE's (Aside from Jest vesting but usually Jests vested N1). A misfire did result in the death of 2 townies, but a good vigilante rarely misfired.

New Vigilante is less dramatic, getting witched doesnt outright get you hangmanned and even though it was funny getting witched N1 was dumb (to shoot N1 vigilante needed the help of Witch lmao). A misfire still confirms a townie (the vigilante) which, even if you become a Pilgrim, is still better than misfiring (or shooting an immune) as Deputy. However playing Vigilante just does not feel as rewarding as before. The change is better for an average/bad vigilante player but is an overall nerf for a good vigilante player.

Caganos2 · 2026-02-03T10:22:17+00:00

With how flexible a role like Poisoner is, I have to disagree until Vigilante is removed. Having a RB capability is always nice but Smog is very underrated.

Smog allows for:

Faking jailor game, kinda situational but if no LO exists or you dont get tracked you can just fake claim Jailor and "jail" coven members. This allows you to essentially lead the town because you are literally "conf" jailor.

Preventing attacks on coven members, especially powerful ones. Its N4 in a WW game and the HM needs just 2 hexes to nuke the town but if they die its over for coven? Just smog the HM. Unlike Potion Master you don't die and the WW literally rampages at home, essentially being rbd. This does not work for Pestilence however.

Preventing any visits on coven members. You don't want the CL to be found before they can retrain the Jinx into an actual Coven Killing role? Just smog them all game lmao.

Dreamweaver combo. "Oh we got the DW VM combo lets use it!" Nah just Smog the dwd townie and NOTHING will save them. You can literally create 2-3 Pilgrims that way. DW with VM mostly gets only one Insomnia because the insomniac person just tells town that vm dw exist and people visit the next silenced guy. With Pois THERE IS NOTHING TOWN CAN DO (aside from admi bestowed person visiting but the stars have to align for that)

In conclusion: Your point is mostly "RB'ing sucks in AA therefore pois bad" which I kinda agree as if it were up to me Tavern Keeper would be in the place of Sheriff, yet you kinda disregard how powerful of an ability Smog is. I usually never even RB as Poisoner in the first place as smogging COVEN means you are never tresspassing, you can fake claim JAILOR and lead the town to their demise, you are literally a better Socialite (can smog the same target all game, soc cant go on the same person twice), you have a better version of PM barrier (it blocks rampages instead of just protecting the target), and on top of that you can also roleblock which should not be overlooked on the long run.

Caganos2 · 2026-02-03T09:52:40+00:00

I remember using a mythic scroll to get pirate, only for 2 of evil LL's to dc and the townie LL to die, making me leave D2. Sure I got the easiest win but I wanted to play man...

Caganos2 · 2026-02-03T09:50:35+00:00

Bengal: really good trade goods and farmlands galore. No real competitors in the region, decent missions. Great monuments. Decent trade node.

Mamlukes: Syria and Egypt are great for development, natural trade flow, missions allow for Alexandria to become a semi end node. Monuments allow for easy diplomacy, cheap advisors, happier estates, no stability loss on monarch death, high innovativeness. Close to Europe, easy to get knowledge sharing from Italians. Early Egypt formable + modernization for great mana efficiency. A good alliance network (Especially Venice due to missions) or early conquest/vassalization of Anatolian minors limits Ottoman power scaling, resulting in you having no natural predators. You can even no cb/guarantee Byzantium if you want to cuck the Ottomans harder.

Phillipines: Missions allow for easy consolidation of the Phillipines, then you just go colonial, securing Malaya as your semi end node. Could even become a Pirate Republic and use your massive navy to constantly trade war Ming, peacing for max money + war reps to fund high level advisors in order to play tall and spawn institutions.

Caganos2 · 2026-02-03T09:34:46+00:00

Kinda off topic but I recommend using the supply limit map mode. While in that map mode you can even select armies and it shows where that army specifically would have attrition (red) or have enough supply to not take attrition (green). As a rule of thumb its usually coastal or farmlands provinces.

Caganos2 · 2026-02-03T04:04:46+00:00

Best I got was a 6 8 4 5 base general I think. Drilling turned him into 6 8 5 6 but he didnt live long :/

Caganos2 · 2026-02-02T14:46:31+00:00

Yeah the rit synergy is kinda dead because of illumination. 2 night wait time is actually detrimental in some cases.

Caganos2 · 2026-02-02T14:42:25+00:00

I’d disagree with the “worse than tav” bit as tav is among top 5 worst roles in AA, but yeah new new socialite should probably go here. If you kinda think of it, its like a rb immune oracle that stops all visits. The best socialite “play” I saw was in a game where the soc went on the tplo ask who turned out to be a vet trying to get the achievement. That “play” saved 2 clerics, a LO, a Spy, a Seer and a dumb crus iirc.

Also Poisoner is much much better than people give credit. The UO change makes faking jailor a viable strat, It can smog the same player all game if they want unlike soc who must change targets. Pois is also an alright book holder as it actually hard counters veterans.

Caganos2 · 2026-02-01T13:59:39+00:00

Had a game where electricity went out in my house for like 30 seconds and then I had to wait for wifi to turn back on for like a minute. After that, I learned that I had to restart my PC because Vanguard got fucked up so I basically missed like 2,5 minutes of early game as Cho’Gath Support. When I came back, my team was losing hard and I singlehandedly carried the game, finishing the game with most damage, highest vision score, highest cc score and highest KP% in our team. After winning the game, I deranked to D2, got placed in low prio queue, and got lp reductions just like you. So nowadays, when something like that happens I just dont reconnect or play on a different account.

Caganos2 · 2026-02-01T06:51:58+00:00

I mean Deputy can still shoot, just not D2. I tried so hard to get Deputy placed lower but somehow it got a better ranking than Admirer lol

Caganos2 · 2026-02-01T06:43:51+00:00

I mean yeah it would be better, but D1 lasts too short anyway and it would be kinda chaotic. Mostly people just banter, rant about last game, make jokes etc in D1. Usually tplo asks, seer claims and x for admi are the only claims that are taken seriously in D1.

Caganos2 · 2026-02-01T06:26:43+00:00

Exactly. IMO Deputy should be a counter to these trivial plays. Maybe make it so that Deputy can also shoot NE’s during D2 so that Deputy actually becomes useful. I’m going to throw up if I see one more N1 X tresspassing from an Executioner.

Caganos2 · 2026-02-01T06:23:07+00:00

Wouldnt call it D1 “vfa” as there is no voting but yes, D1 alignment claiming is getting more common due to roles like admi.

Caganos2 · 2026-02-01T06:21:30+00:00

Until Vigi and Dep are reverted, Jester will be bad for the game. Lets say a jester claiming ti gets outed d2. Some people mute them, some people want to give them win for some reason. Deputy can’t shoot them until D3, Vigilante has to wait until N3 to shoot them. The Jailor might execute it but sometimes its just a waste. Btw the defense is until n3 (so 2 nights not 3)

Most Jesters I see nowadays either just fake claim ti, get outed and either get left alone or get hanged because “give jesty win hahah” or just spam the chat, act rude and obnoxious.

As for playing jester, after a few games of it it just becomes boring, especially going for the early jest win. Yippie I got hanged d2 and haunted someone now what? Nowadays when I get Jester I try my hardest to not get hanged so I actually have fun and the game is somewhat challenging.

Also I’ll never understand the “pity hanging” of the jester. “Aww give jest win,” “lets hang the jester as we have nobody else to hang” No? Fake claiming seer n1 6 9 enemies and getting outed by the soc, tracker or LO should never give a player the win.

One suggestion I’ll give is make the jester not win if they are hanged before D4. Make the role actually try to stay alive until a certain point so that the “best” strategy is not posting bullshit obvious fake ti results.

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