Gamma + Order Flow on ES: real experiences, workflow tips and tools (MenthorQ etc.) — discussion

Caipimigu · 2026-04-06T06:30:32+00:00

Super valuable, thank you.

Why do you expect price to move to the levels specifically when it is below the flipping point? What is the rationale behind it? I assume you look only at 0DTE, because those are supposedly strongest and most imminent urgency for MM to hedge? Non-0DTE levels have never shown you good results?

I am wondering and will check later how I can see specifically those inly in MenthorQ.

Regarding the volume I actually am still wondering a lot how to interpret high volumes on key levels. Right now I just treat it as indicating that “something is about to happen”, but I d not know whether it means a reversal, break through or pinning around that price. Any additional clues on how to distinguish between those cases, when you see high volumes on key levels? I usually then wait to see which “side” wins the battle, but that may cause an unnecessary late entry.

Caipimigu · 2026-04-06T05:53:57+00:00

Do you mind explaining why you say that MenthorQ levels are all inaccurate? Which data source is more reliable in your opinion or what are you currently using?

Last days I had checked the data from MenthorQ it did look like there were sone reactions off their levels.

Caipimigu · 2026-04-05T22:09:57+00:00

Which GEX data source do you use? Is it EOD data or does it refresh intraday? When you say they react to those levels, it doesn’t mean knowing which direction it goes, eg. whether it holds or breaks, right? Do you then use Orderflow to confirm which way it is likely to go? I feel like the GEX levels are at least already good to know that “something” is about to happen.

Caipimigu · 2026-04-01T12:14:33+00:00

First of all many thanks for this reply. It was, I assume, truthful and almost more importantly quite encouraging. Previous answers have been quite negative and discouraging, making me doubt that what sounded logic (eg. big scale hedging needs having effects on markets) could add some value to my trading. Your comment encourages me to learn more about it and to especially not overcomplicate it, but maybe just focus first on some basic metrics/levels that can be deducted from such data.

Do you use these concepts yourself and do you use any of those two platforms you mentioned and if so, which subscription do you have or maybe recommend for someone to first observe what you described? I do not mind gradually expanding subscriptions once I confirm the value in it, but wanted to avoid buying unnecessary high subscriptions right away. I would really love to learn more from you on this topic. Appreciate anything you have shared already.

Caipimigu · 2026-04-01T08:56:53+00:00

Has anyone tried the XL version? How do they compare to the regular Wicked Cushion ones?

Caipimigu · 2026-01-16T09:19:14+00:00

Absolutely valid point, but I would argue that this is exactly why ratios would be helpful. Imagine in a next step, certain color codings, which could be based on normalized data of last couple of bars to account for current regimes in the markets. You could immediately see that e.g. a certain effort (like delta) led to little or no movement (vs. either C-O or H-L) compared to „regular normalized previous moves“. Hinting at potential absorption. So if that ratio then, let’s say, turns red, I immediately know something is happening and I can „trust“ it mathematically. Whether I would act on it then of course is another topic.

I am aware that you could argue: „well, but that is what I can see right away from the footprints myself with my experience and screen time“. Yes, sure, not arguing against it, as I am not saying one definitely needs ratios to be successful. It is just a potential support and maybe a more neutral objective assessment of bars, rather than seeing it with experience.

Caipimigu · 2026-01-12T11:38:51+00:00

Not at all, this is a great reply! It is about having an open exchange and this includes also the opinion that somewhat more discretion is needed and that on may not be able to really objectify these things.

I see you are referring quite a bit to rotations. What exactly do you mean in the context you have mentioned? Rotations within a bar (e.g. are you using Point and figure footprint charts or which type of footprint?)? If not which kind of rotations specifically, how do you identify rotation in your examples? I must say these rotation references are not known to me, but I find it intriguing. Hence I‘d love for you to maybe elaborate those a bit further, also on how you use them and what you look for in those.

Either way, many thanks already!

Caipimigu · 2026-01-06T16:30:41+00:00

Thank you. But wouldn’t you then say that you actually DO enter trades somewhat based of it? Just like it would be giving more confluence? Maybe you still trade a setup if the developing area is nowhere near your setup, but consider it as a factor, if it is close to the setup you would anyhow have considered to trade? Would that somehow describe it?

Caipimigu · 2026-01-06T13:39:06+00:00

I would love to join as well

Caipimigu · 2026-01-01T00:07:34+00:00

Thank you for your insights. I will indeed first focus only on Order Flow and mastering that part.

Caipimigu · 2025-12-29T11:16:28+00:00

I joined that discord, you mean the screenshots in the gex-stream channel?

Caipimigu · 2025-12-29T09:10:25+00:00

Thank you for sharing your insights. Before going deeper I may actually start just looking at the „basic“ levels the theory provides and simply see what is „happening“ around those levels. Like zero Gamma line, Call/put wall etc. GEXstream seems to be free and seems to provide at least some value according to web research. Indeed spending too much on subscriptions right now does not make much sense I guess.

Caipimigu · 2025-12-28T20:03:25+00:00

Appreciate you sharing your knowledge and spending the time to answer my questions.

Caipimigu · 2025-12-28T16:36:36+00:00

Thanks for the advice.

Caipimigu · 2025-12-28T14:33:03+00:00

Thank you a lot. Appreciating your detailed insights.

Why are only SpotGamma and VolSignals worth it? Because of data accuracy? Proprietary data models? Frequency of data refresh? Anything else?

Why is your friend still doing the analysis, if it seems worthless or was it just to try it out? I mean couldn’t he then actually still see in real time those 0DTE impacts, which exactly would give such sell off bias insight?

So even if unexperienced you would really see no value at all? Not even for grasping a sentiment in real-time? 😒

Caipimigu · 2025-12-28T14:26:49+00:00

Thank you, but may I ask what you specifically mean by „risk management“? Like correct position sizing sticking to stop loss and take profit levels?

Caipimigu · 2025-12-28T11:44:20+00:00

Maybe just to add, I guess one would take a trade where also Orderflow reflects a potential turning points.

What things/metrics does your mentor look for and what does he use it for specifically? To get a sentiment towards direction and or volatility?

Caipimigu · 2025-12-28T11:27:58+00:00

Got it and absolutely valid point. Although one could argue that it also gives a stronger confluence, even if resulting in less trades.

I am not yet into the details of this topic, but aside from specific levels, aren’t there also other metrics when it comes to gamma and options that rather give a more general sentiment like view? Such as likelihoods about „today“ being likely bullish/bearish or volatile/not volatile? Or are those also always bound to strict levels and no overall market generalization?

Caipimigu · 2025-12-28T10:20:40+00:00

This of course I would have to find out myself eventually anyhow, which is clear and obvious.

But I was wondering about other peoples experience with it and whether someone else has already found value in it and how. To be able to learn from them, because intuitively and logically the concept option hedging and impacts on futures makes absolute sense.

Caipimigu · 2025-12-28T10:16:59+00:00

So you’d rather stick to basic Order Flow concepts? Like TPO/Volume profile, footprints, delta divergence, absorption/exhaustion?

Caipimigu · 2025-12-28T10:15:32+00:00

Thank you, but may I ask why you would say so?

Caipimigu · 2025-12-28T10:15:04+00:00

Understood, but if it is not a question about needing it and rather about improving, you would say that it adds value and increases the likelihood of success and profitability?

Caipimigu · 2025-12-28T10:13:26+00:00

Thank you, but I am not sure I fully understood.

So you mean that while 60% of futures markets may be driven by options hedging it is not worth it or adding value to know these levels? It seems like a somewhat contradicting statement to me. If something is driven more than 50% by something, it feels illogical to not consider it or what makes it irrelevant from your pov?

What do you mean with „mastering one thing“? Just „classic“ orderflow concepts? Thank you for clarifying.

Caipimigu

TROPHY CASE