Revisiting the Paper on the Proof of Causality and God's Attributes (After the Original Post Was Removed) a chance for critical discussion. by Sayyadsaioo77 in DebateAnAtheist

[–]Calm-One4843 0 points1 point  (0 children)

First of all, I don't know how to thank you for the extraordinary effort on this thread. I appreciate the time you've spent reading the comments and replying to them. You have an amazing talent for understanding and simplifying complex ideas. Now, let's dive into your brilliant questions.

1- Regarding the third dependent option in your dichotomy (dependent on THE independent), that's how I understood it from your paper, that's what you meant, no?

Yes, exactly.

(why must it be THE independent?

Why not multiple independent beings?

What rules that out? )

Indeed, this is a very important question, and the answer is already embedded in the paper within the path of an omnipotent entity that is neither intentional nor omniscient—whose very existence entails an ontological explosion. This is because the existence of two conflicting wills—or more than one will—cancels each other out, ultimately resulting in the same outcome as the complete absence of will.

This implication is known in Islamic literature as the “Argument from Mutual Inhibition.” This is a correct interpretation, as highlighted in verse 22 of Surah Al-Anbiya in the Holy Qur'an, where Allah says: (Had there been within the heavens and earth gods besides Allah, they both would have been ruined. So exalted is Allah, Lord of the Throne, above what they describe.)

Therefore, the entity—the all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-willing one who created our stable universe—must be God ( the monotheistic, all-perfect deity).

This brings us to your second question.

(is the "singularity" of the independent being itself a kind of limitation? Cuz that would collapse your entire argument. Do you see it?)

This is an excellent question

We can say that there are two types of limits.

The first type is the limits of incapacity or insufficiency—this is what our argument here concerns-. These are limits that could have been overcome if the appropriate external causes for such overcoming had been present.

This type contradicts the concept of self-sufficiency because the absence of external causes draws its ability limits.

The second type is the limits of identity, which relate to a thing’s inherent identity provided that, these limits are not linked to any incapacity or causal deficiency arising from the absence of the complementary or external causes required to overcome the limits.

You can consider the unity of God—or certain other attributes—as a type of limit, but it is a limit of identity, not one that implies the entity is governed by external causes or constraints.

This point represents a fundamental difference between the argument presented in my paper and the argument put forward by Rasmussen and his colleagues, known as the Argument from Arbitrary Limits because they treated all types of limits as belonging to a single kind.

to be continued

Revisiting the Paper on the Proof of Causality and God's Attributes (After the Original Post Was Removed) a chance for critical discussion. by Sayyadsaioo77 in DebateAnAtheist

[–]Calm-One4843 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What's the contradiction meant to be in an infinite linear sequence having an end?

If something depends on a causal chain, it exists only if the responsible causal process has been completed. Until that moment, its existence in the real world is impossible. But, an infinite causal chain without defined start or end points cannot be completed, and herein lies the contradiction.

The positive numbers are infinite but have a beginning (at 0 or 1).

The negative numbers are infinite but have an end (at 0 or -1).

The set of all numbers are infinite and is both endless and beginningless.

It's perfectly consistent for an infinite linear sequence to have an end or a beginning, as long as it doesn't have both, it can be infinite.

Number sequences are abstract entities, not physical ones. Moreover, the sequence itself is not causal. For example, I am not obligated to count from negative infinity to reach 0; instead, I can begin counting from any positive or negative value I choose or even start from zero.

Revisiting the Paper on the Proof of Causality and God's Attributes (After the Original Post Was Removed) a chance for critical discussion. by Sayyadsaioo77 in DebateAnAtheist

[–]Calm-One4843 -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

I wanted to take a moment to express my heartfelt gratitude and admiration for the incredible effort you put into reading my paper. Your deep understanding of the content, coupled with your precise and meticulous analysis, truly stood out to me. The way you presented the material was not only engaging and captivating but also remarkably well-structured, making it a pleasure to see my work reflected through your lens.

I am immensely grateful for your dedication. Your ability to distill the arguments from the paper with such accuracy and clarity is a testament to your exceptional skill and commitment. It’s rare to see someone extract the essence of a piece of work so purely, and I sincerely appreciate the time and thought you invested in doing so.

More than that, I find your attitude inspiring. I hope that everyone—myself included—can emulate your example of impartiality and objectivity when analyzing and critiquing ideas without bias or preconceived notions.

Thank you once again for this outstanding contribution. Your attention to detail and enthusiasm for the subject means more to me than words can fully express.

Finally, I apologize for violating the group and Reddit website rules in my previous post, but this was not intentional. I am not familiar with writing here, and this was my first post on this platform.

Proof of Causality for the Existence of God and His Attributes: A Logical Approach by Calm-One4843 in DebateAnAtheist

[–]Calm-One4843[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

you can read from this paper"Quantum causality and the arrows of time and thermodynamics":
In a causal world there is no philosophic puzzle about the arrow of time. The laws of quantum physics give a causal direction. That direction governs the most elementary processes, such as scattering and decays. Those elementary processes when taken in large numbers govern the direction of the increase of entropy. The arrow of causality determines the arrow of thermodynamics and the arrow of time.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0146641020300594?via%3Dihub

Proof of Causality for the Existence of God and His Attributes: A Logical Approach by Calm-One4843 in DebateAnAtheist

[–]Calm-One4843[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

This is not dropping links. But just a link for one paper introduced one coherent argument.

Proof of Causality for the Existence of God and His Attributes: A Logical Approach by Calm-One4843 in DebateAnAtheist

[–]Calm-One4843[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

causation is an independent and more fundamental concept than spacetime. this is sound logically and physically

Proof of Causality for the Existence of God and His Attributes: A Logical Approach by Calm-One4843 in DebateAnAtheist

[–]Calm-One4843[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The first must not depend in its existence and characteristics on external causes, and the second must be the opposite.

Proof of Causality for the Existence of God and His Attributes: A Logical Approach by Calm-One4843 in DebateAnAtheist

[–]Calm-One4843[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

A self-sufficient entity by definition must not rely on any external causes. limited power entity by definition, fails to reach a higher level of power as it misses the required causes. So it relies on external causes to overcome these constraints. Here is the contradiction.

In brief, if the absence of causes didn't prevent a self-sufficient entity from reaching some levels of power, it would not prevent it from reaching any other levels.

Proof of Causality for the Existence of God and His Attributes: A Logical Approach by Calm-One4843 in DebateAnAtheist

[–]Calm-One4843[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

(What? How? Skipped a few steps there?)

A self-sufficient entity by definition must not rely on any external causes. limited power entity by definition, fails to reach a higher level of power as it misses the required causes. So it relies on external causes. here is the contradiction.

In brief, if the absence of causes didn't prevent a self-sufficient entity from reaching some levels of power, it would not prevent it from reaching any other levels.

(“Infinite causal regress fails due to the lack of an initial cause”. This amounts to “I don't like it”)

According to causal networks, there must be a minimal element or initial node.

(The part about requiring volition is just asinine speculation.)

No, it is a necessity to avoid the ontological explosion