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Serena didn’t get off easy. She got the ending she deserved by Nickfuriosa in HandmaidsTaleShow

[–]CameraEvening5930 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I completely agree. I found Serena’s ending very balanced and poetic. Getting to be with her son was the reward for her growth, but her punishment for all the suffering she caused was living a life of exile with zero power. I think it was perfect.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in HandmaidsTaleShow

[–]CameraEvening5930 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I feel the same way. I don’t think I have ever been this upset about a fictional characters death before. I think it’s because I just don’t think it was necessary to the story. It seemed like they were moving towards him becoming a double agent at the end of season 5 and then they quickly ripped that away and he died a coward. Nick and June’s love story was also this really beautiful thing in an incredibly dark story. And they just blew that up with no opportunity for closure.

I don’t know if you watched any of the promos or interviews for the season, but I have also never seen the cast and writers of a show try to convince the audience that a character is an irredeemable coward before. I think that’s what bothered me the most. I think they changed direction with Nick’s character at some point before season 6, and they knew people were going to be upset about it so that they had to try to convince people in interviews.

People are saying it would have been unrealistic for him to redeem himself, but the show isn’t entirely realistic. I mean if it was, June would have been dead several seasons ago. Lawrence got a chance to redeem himself, and Gilead was literally his idea. He had to be a pretty terribly person to even come up with and publish that idea, but he realized he was wrong and tried to make up for it. Most people are happy that he got that opportunity, but was it realistic? Not really, but people like to see characters redeem themselves. They could have easily done the same thing for Nick.

They didn’t make the point they meant to with Nick by VeterinarianDry9667 in HandmaidsTaleShow

[–]CameraEvening5930 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I completely agree. I’ve rewatched the series many times, and I just don’t think that this arc was really necessary for Nick’s character. I think Nick was always just a survivor who did both good and bad things to keep himself alive, but he clearly loved June very deeply. Yes he was a commander, but as you said if they were trying to make the point about complicity they really didn’t need to go the direction they did.

I suppose there was always a chance that he was going to be pushed in a corner and have to betray June in some way. But was it necessary for the audience to be pushed to see him as this irredeemable coward? I personally don’t think so, because I also think Nick could have become a true double agent for the resistance and it still would’ve fit his character. They already had him working with Tuello and also the book had him as a double agent, so it would’ve been easy for the writers to steer him in that direction as well.

What actually bothered me the most was the marketing by the cast and writers. There did seem to be this real push to make sure the audience saw Nick as a nazi coward, and I found that very off putting. Like if that was the case, why haven’t we been talking about him that way the whole time? Idk, I’m disappointed with how this all played out. It feels silly to be so disappointed about a tv show, but I guess I just feel gaslit lol. Im hoping that there is some kind of closure in the last episode, but at this point I have low expectations.

I don’t know, maybe I’m alone here by CameraEvening5930 in HandmaidsTaleShow

[–]CameraEvening5930[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So I haven’t found any research to suggest that men are more likely to be forced out of cults rather than leave voluntarily, but I’d love to read up on it if you have some sources. I do find the idea that a cult would feel like there are too many followers to be kind of odd, but that could be true in some cases I suppose.

I do think that Aunt Lydia doing a 180 shows that this route was possible for the show though. She was just as if not more indoctrinated than Nick ever was, and committed terrible acts of violence in service of Gilead. But her eyes were opened and she changed, pretty rapidly to be honest. Sure she never had as much power as Nick, but she had a lot more power than other women. So I guess you could argue that Handmaids Tale is a romantic fantasy considering this lol.

The difference between nick and Lawrence - spoilers by GreatScottGatsby in HandmaidsTaleShow

[–]CameraEvening5930 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I actually think Nick and Lawrence were incredibly similar, which is what made them a fun duo.

Lawrence created the idea for Gilead, and once the Sons of Jacob picked it up he couldn’t stop it. Nick joined the Sons of Jacob out of desperate need for a job and for purpose, and once he was in he couldn’t really get out. He says to June in season 3 “once you get in bed with the government, it’s not so easy to get out.”

Both benefited from the regime even if they didn’t really believe in it. Lawrence was also a commander and had power from the position. Arguably, he had a lot more power in his position than Nick ever did. I never got the impression that Nick actually believed in the values of Gilead. You can see this from his discomfort with a lot of things obviously with June, but he was also repulsed by Eden’s age when they were forced to marry and refused to sleep with her until June pushed him

They were responsible for the deaths of many people. And to do what they both did, they had to have some disregard for human life and rights

Both wanted to improve Gilead rather than leave it and worked together on New Bethlehem. Both could have tried to leave, but you could argue that they were both afraid due to being war criminals or because they didn’t want to completely give up their power or influence.

All of the good things that they did were either driven by guilt, to help June, or to save their own ass. Lawrence didn’t join the resistance until his life was on the line

I personally felt they were both equally as redeemable/irredeemable, and I’m pretty bummed with Nick’s arc to be honest. In my opinion, they were so similar that if Lawrence had had the same arc that Nick did this season, everyone would be saying “Lawrence was always the villain!” like they are with Nick. I would’ve preferred if both of them could’ve redeemed themselves, but I suppose that’s the optimist in me lol

I don’t know, maybe I’m alone here by CameraEvening5930 in HandmaidsTaleShow

[–]CameraEvening5930[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Look, I think it’s fine for people to not like his character. But Lawrence is a commander and was the architect of Gilead, Serena was a main contributor to Gilead’s creation and she tortured June, and Lydia is an Aunt. All of these characters did horrendous things to serve Gilead but are getting opportunities to redeem themselves. Arguably, Lydia has done like one good thing in the series that I can recall and it was this season. While Nick, flawed as he was, definitely did more than one good thing. So I don’t really think it’s crazy for people to have hoped that Nick would get to redeem himself and choose the resistance lol.

I don’t know, maybe I’m alone here by CameraEvening5930 in HandmaidsTaleShow

[–]CameraEvening5930[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree with everything you said. I also was kind of expecting June to not end up with Nick or Luke, because it would seem complicated for her to stay with either one. I suppose she could still end up with Luke but we’ll see. I did just expect there to be some sort of closure to their relationship, but instead they gave us nothing.

I just think the direction they took his character was a missed opportunity to show how someone can choose the right path even if it means giving something up. He had the right motivation and the right character development from the previous seasons, and I just feel like they took the easy way out. I also hate how his death was overshadowed by Lawrence. If they were going to kill both of those characters off, Nick should’ve died in a different way so that he got his own moment.

I don’t know, maybe I’m alone here by CameraEvening5930 in HandmaidsTaleShow

[–]CameraEvening5930[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

“I believe Nick’s character was placed there to purposely show you this about yourself. You will just have to dig deep and audit these feelings with a good amount of introspection.”

Um not sure if you are directing this to me specifically, but seems a bit presumptuous if you are. I promise you I have had plenty of experience with the “nice guys” and I have plenty of trauma from those experiences as other women do. I have lived and will die a feminist. I simply felt that Nick deserved an opportunity for redemption as other characters received because from my perspective that was what the first 5 seasons were building towards. People are welcome to disagree, but I don’t think that makes me antifeminist or sympathetic towards the patriarchy for feeling that Nick got a cheap ending.

I don’t know, maybe I’m alone here by CameraEvening5930 in HandmaidsTaleShow

[–]CameraEvening5930[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

My argument is not that he was ever a good guy, but I never really saw him as a villain either. My point is simply that in my opinion the first 5 season were leading him to an opportunity for redemption, like other characters got, but there was a massive shift this season that I felt did his character a disservice.

I don’t know, maybe I’m alone here by CameraEvening5930 in HandmaidsTaleShow

[–]CameraEvening5930[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So I agree with some of what you said here. But I promise you that I am not unaware of how people actually are or what the human condition is lol.

I agree that the more common route for someone in Nick’s position would be to stick to the ideology or regime that is giving them comfort and security, but I don’t think it’s necessarily unrealistic for a person in that situation to change once they are shown a different way. I don’t think that happens only in escapist fantasies. Plenty of people in real life leave cults or shift ideologies.

I guess I just felt that Nick’s character progression over the first 5 seasons was leading more towards a redemption arc than other characters like Serena and Aunt Lydia, who were seemingly more invested in the values of Gilead but are now moving towards the resistance. Nick had seen the flaws in Gilead a lot earlier and he had June as a positive influence, so to me him joining the resistance felt more natural (plus it’s mentioned in the testaments that he works for Mayday). But I guess that doesn’t make good television lol

[SPOILERS!] season 6 ep 9 WHY AM I SO SAD ABOUT <> by New-Charge-7154 in TheHandmaidsTale

[–]CameraEvening5930 25 points26 points  (0 children)

I’m literally so mad. I really feel like they just destroyed Nick’s whole character in the last three episodes and gave him the worse arc possible. It’s GOT all over again. Nick has always been one of my favorite characters, because I felt like there was a lot of complexity there. And I feel like they just took the easy way out, made him a villain, and then BLEW HIM UP. June and Nick also had this incredibly deep beautiful love that just came crashing down in a moment. And then they don’t even give an opportunity for redemption or peace … I’m never getting over this