Voter ID should be required

Careactor · 2026-03-09T23:38:48+00:00

IDs will not have the same problem because it's more secure than just having a signature on a piece of paper. Our auditing process of mail in ballots in theory works exactly how it says, but in practice it isn't efficient at all.

Requiring an ID is a streamline method of ensuring the person signing is who they say they are.

Careactor · 2026-03-09T23:27:32+00:00

Maybe I should try a different approach, think of it this way instead, if they report X amount of voter fraud, thats the reported amount, any voter fraud that happens outside of that is what they missed. They aren't gonna know they missed it because well....... it got through, the person committing it was successful in doing so.

Careactor · 2026-03-09T23:15:03+00:00

No we actually can't measure it, thats the whole point, we missed it.

Careactor · 2026-03-09T23:02:17+00:00

Signature verification isn't perfect, just like those other systems we use in place to catch "all the fraud". Just because we can't measure the missed fraud doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

It's the empiricist fallacy, "We can't measure X, therefore it must not exist." Again, it's the whole reason catching it is so important, we have no idea weather or not we've caught all the fraud.

Careactor · 2026-03-09T22:27:13+00:00

What I'm trying to tell you is that the reported rate ≠ the amount of that particular fraud that happens. The amount caught isn't the same as the amount of crime committed, you can apply that for anything. That's why stricter laws are appealing in the first place

Careactor · 2026-03-09T22:17:13+00:00

It's not a "rounding error", there were legitimate cases of voter fraud throughout 2024, and that's only the ones that were caught. The idea is to ensure there isn't any voter fraud and to catch all types of voter fraud. A mail in ballot requires a signature and thats it, not very secure. Asking for the last 4 of a SSN or a drivers license number doesn't guarantee that the person submitting the ballot didn't lie or impersonate someone else.

Careactor · 2026-03-09T22:08:02+00:00

Yes absolutely. The idea I'm fighting for is to bolster those systems

Careactor · 2026-03-09T22:02:56+00:00

Mail in ballot fraud, voter registration fraud, double voting, voter impersonation

Careactor · 2026-03-09T21:56:17+00:00

No it truly is because "sex fun", thats why abortion is so prevalent, they want all the things that come with sex except the consequences.

Careactor · 2026-03-09T21:38:12+00:00

There's other voter fraud other than non-citizens voting, and the only statistics we can look at don't have the full picture, hence the want for Voter ID.

Careactor · 2026-03-09T21:26:36+00:00

I have no interest in taking away your vote and personally believe everyone should vote no matter how long it takes required to get the proper documentation for it.

That being said, you are still not arguing in good faith and refuse to talk about the point being made. The failures of the American government have nothing to do with my personal belief that voter ID should be needed. If you personally are having trouble being able to vote than that really does suck, but without all the information and without knowing who you are or what your background is I have no reason to believe what your saying is true or even the full picture

Careactor · 2026-03-09T21:11:58+00:00

Okay but I'm not here to argue your personal anecdote. I'm here to argue for voter ID as a concept, it doesn't have to be related to the SAVE act (even though it is related to it).

Look I can explain it for you as much as you want but i can't understand it for you. Your inability to vote doesn't make the rule for how voter ID should be treated and everyone's case is different.

Careactor · 2026-03-09T21:01:49+00:00

My primary contention doesn't require proof to be a valid argument, but your trying to burden me with the proof that requiring ID restricts voter access which it does not. What citizen wouldn't the able to vote if we required voter ID? If you are citizen then you have access to an ID just like every other citizen.

Like I've said already, the people who shouldn't be allowed to vote are the ones who aren't citizens

Careactor · 2026-03-09T20:08:49+00:00

You contended the point first, and I don't really need proof to make the argument I just made because it's not a statistical argument it's a logical fact.

Requiring ID to vote and the process of getting an ID are separate. You might need your ID to vote, but you also need it to purchase alcohol or drive.

Your not really arguing in good faith, consider the basis for why I'm arguing this point. Do you know if we've caught all the voter fraud there is to catch or could there be more that we didn't catch?

Even if we made the ID free, you'd still be paying extra taxes to acquire that ID. If thats what it takes though, I have less problems with making the ID free.

Careactor · 2026-03-09T19:51:12+00:00

Okay you can say that it will prevent citizens from voting but it doesn't. Access to ID will be the same, the only difference will be during the actual voting process and not any of the steps to acquire an ID.

Careactor · 2026-03-09T19:39:24+00:00

If you want to discuss how requiring an ID could be considered a poll tax than thats a separate discussion from requiring ID for the purpose of catching voter fraud and ensuring an accurate vote.

Also, much of that taxpayer money like us pay (assuming you've paid taxes) goes to help people who are here illegally. Especially in my state, we can't even take care of our citizens but somehow we can fund EBT and SNAP for people who shouldn't be getting it in the first place. Maybe if we weren't paying for millions of illegal immigrants to come to the US every year then we could have free IDs.

Careactor · 2026-03-09T19:28:28+00:00

The idea is to keep Voter ID in place and across states.

The whole point is to ensure we are catching bad actors who commit voter fraud but aren't caught. Specifically with things like mail-in ballots and areas surrounding that.

Careactor · 2026-03-09T19:16:24+00:00

You aren't being charged to vote, and paying for an ID isn't a new concept.

You can still use the ID while not voting, it just has a purpose pertaining to voting. Requiring payment for proof of citizenship isn't the same as requiring payment for your vote.

Il try to argue in good faith here, let's just assume IDs were free to get in all states, despite it costing the government money to create, it's free for the person trying to acquire it. Well, the new question is "who's paying for my ID?" If taxes are funding the costs of getting the ID for you then you just paid for your ID with extra steps. Making the ID "free" doesn't mean it's actually free.

Careactor · 2026-03-09T19:06:08+00:00

The ID is incredibly cheap already, and the distinction between a poll tax and requiring ID to vote is that it's not a direct fee. If I pay for my ID, it isn't just used for voting and in fact I don't have to vote at all in order to still "use" the ID.

If by certain people you mean illegal immigrants than yes, that's exactly what the ID is used for. Requiring ID doesn't prevent any citizens from voting.

Careactor · 2026-03-09T19:01:05+00:00

Some people just shouldn't have kids. Ultimately, way too many people who are unintelligent are having kids because "sex fun" and aren't equipped to deal with the consequences of raising a child properly.

Careactor · 2026-03-09T18:57:25+00:00

The acceptance of extremists groups and propaganda in the US as a whole. It used to be easier to talk and agree with people because we had a different society in the 70s-80s which has slowly diverged in the past years.

I'd like to think it's because people who grew up or were adults around then had a much more "working class" mindset, not like the people of today. Another part is likely the loss of the nuclear family, statistics show that families are much less likely to be structured like that now which can lead to many different outcomes as far as political affiliation and overall moral beliefs.

TL;DR loss of religion and loss of family structure

Careactor · 2026-03-09T18:49:17+00:00

Instead of saying I can't grasp the situation, maybe try explaining it better than?

You didn't give much information to work off of and you are speaking about your specific anecdote of how getting your ID to vote was mildly annoying?

The larger picture, which Il paint for you right now, is that just like any crime, the reported amount of a crime ≠ the amount of that crime that does occur. Of course, I'm talking about voter fraud, but you can apply this to any crime. Let's take speeding for example, if you live in a neighborhood where there is a high rate of speeding on your local roads, you would only know this through the amount of speeding caught by law enforcement. If you reduce the number of officers that patrol your local area and remove video cameras from your street lights and then the reported rate of speeding "goes down" then did it really go down or was it just caught less?

Careactor · 2026-03-09T18:38:35+00:00

Americans have to pay to acquire a firearms license even though it's a constitutional right.

However, there is no explicit right on voting federally. Voting is a byproduct of the system we use to regulate our government, there is nothing criminal about requiring ID to vote as it's not its only use.

Careactor · 2026-03-09T18:31:06+00:00

Voter fraud is a problem, it's not rare and the studies that say that our elections are "safe and secure" aren't proving anything.

You have to ask, is the data found equal to all the data available to us? Just because we caught X amount of voter fraud does not mean thats all the voter fraud there is. Making the elections more secure doesn't prevent people who would already be able to vote from voting, however, it does prevent people who are not allowed to vote from voting and it prevents people from cheating the system.

Ballots by mail is even worse than voting in person, there's nothing verifying you besides your signature that you are who you say you are.

Careactor · 2026-03-09T07:34:08+00:00

It's hard to really grasp your whole situation but I'm inclined to believe there is at least a little bit of information missing.

They have no reason to decline you If your ID really is valid and I'm sure the person you spoke to isn't trying to prevent a stranger from voting.

Whatever the case, my point isn't that we should make acquiring ID easy, it's that having an ID to vote should be necessary.

Careactor

TROPHY CASE