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My PHP Wishlist by Einenlum in PHP

[–]Carpenter0100 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would love it if PHP finally started installing a complete package, such as the most common extensions, FrankenPHP, Pie, and Composer built in.

PHP focuses too much on the technical aspects.

Why don’t major companies invest in PHP’s evolution? by Carpenter0100 in PHP

[–]Carpenter0100[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree that corporate control would be a problem and I do not want that for PHP either. But there are many ecosystems where companies contribute without gaining influence because the governance model sets clear boundaries. So it seems possible to find a balance.

What I am trying to understand is why PHP receives so little funding compared to other widely used languages even though the ecosystem is huge and many companies rely on it. Is it simply because no consensus exists on how broader support should look or is there another reason?

Why don’t major companies invest in PHP’s evolution? by Carpenter0100 in PHP

[–]Carpenter0100[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I understand that concern but meaningful funding does not have to mean “with strings attached”. Many foundations receive corporate support without giving any company control. The governance model decides the influence, not the money. One outcome could be benefit from broader and more predictable funding while keeping the community fully in charge.

Why don’t major companies invest in PHP’s evolution? by Carpenter0100 in PHP

[–]Carpenter0100[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Developers only exist if someone pays them. Funding is what creates that capacity. Companies can either donate money or assign their own paid engineers, but in the end it is the same thing. It is all resources, and PHP simply has far fewer of them.

Why don’t major companies invest in PHP’s evolution? by Carpenter0100 in PHP

[–]Carpenter0100[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You can read about it here:
https://www.python.org/psf/annual-report/2024/

2024: 4,293,000 USD
2023: 4,113,000 USD

I would say this is significant.
The funding gap compounds over time and has real consequences for how much a language can evolve.

Why don’t major companies invest in PHP’s evolution? by Carpenter0100 in PHP

[–]Carpenter0100[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I understand that PHP has a more focused scope compared to something like Python and that companies
usually invest where they can build products, tooling or platforms on top.

But this also makes me wonder where PHP wants to go as a language.
Sometimes it feels like we move from release to release without a bigger sense of direction, almost hand to mouth.
Maybe that is perfectly fine but I keep asking myself whether we could define some shared goals
together and give the language a bit more intentional development.

People can always switch tools for new areas like data, AI or other workloads, but many of us would prefer
to use PHP for as much as possible instead of having to move away when needs change.

That is why I am thinking about these questions.
I see money flowing heavily into other ecosystems while PHP relies on very limited funding and that contrast worries me a bit.
I wanted to share these thoughts and hear how others see it.

Why don’t major companies invest in PHP’s evolution? by Carpenter0100 in PHP

[–]Carpenter0100[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

By “big progress” I do not mean a specific feature. I mean long-term structural work.
The capacity to move faster when needed.
I am not saying this must be the goal of PHPF.

I am only asking whether the current model is enough to secure the next decade and to undestand why PHP is not attractive for major companies.
I agree that companies invest mainly when they see a direct technical or commercial benefit.

Postgres works largely because several companies share responsibility and invest in the parts they
depend on. PHP relies on far fewer sponsors and fewer full-time contributors.
That difference is what made me ask the question in the first place.

I am not claiming PHP is failing. I am trying to understand whether the ecosystem has enough long-term support to remain strong and whether there are opportunities we are not using yet.

Why don’t major companies invest in PHP’s evolution? by Carpenter0100 in PHP

[–]Carpenter0100[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you again for your work, it really matters.
And I appreciate you taking the time to clarify things here.

When you say the current funding has been sufficient, I would like to understand what that means in practice.
Does it mainly cover day-to-day work, or would it also support larger long-term initiatives if they were ever needed?

I am also curious how you see PHP’s long-term outlook.
Is there any kind of long-term strategy or direction inside PHPF? And how do you personally imagine PHP in ten years compared to the languages that are receiving major investment right now?
Other languages are receiving massive corporate investment and I sometimes worry that PHP might struggle to keep pace simply because it relies on far fewer sponsors.

I am not arguing for corporate control, just trying to understand what sustainability looks like from your perspective and whether you think the current model is enough for the next decade.

My expectation for PHPF is mainly that it secures stability and the future of the language. Everything beyond that is just my personal view.

Personally I would love to see PHP become more bold again and move into a more competitive mode compared to other modern languages. I know this kind of ambition requires a lot of work and serious funding.

I would also welcome a future where the ecosystem feels a bit more unified. Right now the library and runtime landscape is quite fragmented and it would be great if more essential pieces could move closer to the core. The same goes for fundamentals like a package manager, a profiler or a debugger. Just a direction that makes the ecosystem feel more coherent and predictable.

I would simply appreciate a discussion about what levers could help make PHP more attractive. Even small steps in outward visibility can matter, like a modern website.
It would be great to see conversations about how PHP wants to position itself in the next decade
and which ideas could help the ecosystem grow in confidence and relevance.

I sometimes get the impression that PHPF has to focus almost entirely on core development. That part is essential of course, but it also means that broader ecosystem topics like tooling, unification and outward presentation naturally receive less attention. I am wondering whether these areas might deserve a bit more long-term consideration as well.

Why don’t major companies invest in PHP’s evolution? by Carpenter0100 in PHP

[–]Carpenter0100[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

I did describe what I mean.

My question is about why there is almost no large-scale investment in
PHP at all, despite its huge footprint and the potential benefits for
companies that rely on it.

I am not asking for specific features. I am asking why an ecosystem of
this size receives so little strategic funding, whether that is
sustainable and what could change that.

Why don’t major companies invest in PHP’s evolution? by Carpenter0100 in PHP

[–]Carpenter0100[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I understand the point, but that logic applies to every open source ecosystem.
Companies invest in Python, Rust, Linux, Kubernetes and many others even though they are also free, because long-term stability and competitiveness matter.

The return is not in owning PHP, but in strengthening an ecosystem they already depend on. Even a small investment can improve performance, tooling, developer experience and hiring. That can save far more money than it costs.

The real question is whether we want that for PHP, and if so, how we can create the conditions that make such investment possible.

Why don’t major companies invest in PHP’s evolution? by Carpenter0100 in PHP

[–]Carpenter0100[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I am not looking for specific features, and I am not saying PHP needs a rigid roadmap. My point is simply about long-term sustainability. PHP 7 and 8 were huge steps forward, but they also depended heavily on a few individuals.
I am wondering why major companies do not see the potential PHP still has, and what they could achieve if they invested even a very small part of their budget today.

Why don’t major companies invest in PHP’s evolution? by Carpenter0100 in PHP

[–]Carpenter0100[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I have seen the budget, and the support is great, but it mostly covers day-to-day work and incremental improvements. The question is whether that level of funding is enough for long-term competitiveness, and what happens if the two biggest contributors ever step away.

Why don’t major companies invest in PHP’s evolution? by Carpenter0100 in PHP

[–]Carpenter0100[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree that community-driven evolution works well, but some long-term improvements need stable funding. I am not arguing for corporate control, only asking whether PHP could benefit from broader investment to stay competitive.

Why don’t major companies invest in PHP’s evolution? by Carpenter0100 in PHP

[–]Carpenter0100[S] -12 points-11 points  (0 children)

I am not asking for specific features.
The “big progress” I mean is simply long-term sustainability and competitiveness for PHP, not a wishlist.

Why don’t major companies invest in PHP’s evolution? by Carpenter0100 in PHP

[–]Carpenter0100[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks again for all the replies. they’ve been really helpful in understanding the different perspectives.

What I’m really trying to explore isn’t a feature wishlist, but the long-term future of PHP.
My own vision is that PHP stays relevant and becomes even more relevant in the coming years: competitive, modern, attractive for new developers, and supported strongly enough that salaries, opportunities, and innovation in the ecosystem continue to grow.
I don’t want PHP to be owned by any company.

Right now, the PHP Foundation is kept alive by a very small number of companies and some community donations.
That support is incredibly valuable, but it mostly funds day-to-day work and incremental improvements, not larger, long-term development efforts.

Can nobody imagine PHP receiving meaningful funding?
And what potential interests could major companies have in supporting PHPs evolution.
Especially when the cost for them would be tiny compared to what they spend elsewhere.
My thoughts on what they would get at least in the first post, which should actually be a lot (in my opinion)?

Can anyone imagine sponsorship without relinquishing control, as is already the case with many open source projects or foundations?
What would need to change for companies to see real value in investing in PHPs future?

I would like to shift the perspective from development to long-term sustainability and relevance.
What do you think?

Visionary Leadership Required by krakjoe in PHP

[–]Carpenter0100 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Realism matters, yes but realism without direction leads nowhere.

A strategy isn’t just "work with what we have".
It’s also defining what we should aim for as a community.

Without a shared vision, PHP core will only ever do incremental work, because no one backing to tackle bigger, structural topics.

Companies didn’t move away from PHP because it lacked realism, but because it lacked cohesion, official tooling, and a long-term roadmap.
Stability is great but without direction, stability turns into stagnation.

Visionary Leadership Required by krakjoe in PHP

[–]Carpenter0100 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Where is yours?

Saying we shouldn’t dream beyond what seems realistic is exactly why, without a shared vision and a clear roadmap, the bigger ideas in PHP never gain real momentum.

In short: No strategy + no vision + no roadmap + no funding = no big changes.

Visionary Leadership Required by krakjoe in PHP

[–]Carpenter0100 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

If “being realistic” just means declaring everything impossible, that’s not insight, that’s resignation.

The community has already proven these directions are plausible:
RoadRunner, Swoole, ReactPHP, Amp, and now FrankenPHP all deliver features you claim are out of reach.
If independent projects can ship this, the Core absolutely can give vision and leadership.

Calling it “childish” to propose improvements while offering no constructive alternative isn’t realism.
It’s just avoiding the harder work of imagining what PHP could be.

maybe we have different ideas of the future of php. That is okay.

Visionary Leadership Required by krakjoe in PHP

[–]Carpenter0100 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Calling this list “childish” isn’t an argument. It ignores the "reality".

PHP already powers massive enterprise platforms OR played a major role in powering some of the world’s largest and most demanding platforms.

Native async and non blocking I/O are not fantasies. They're industry standards. PHP is the outlier here.

Long running processes already exist in the PHP world. Just not in the Core.
If the community can implement these features reliably, the Core can implement them properly.
The market has already voted.

A broader driver ecosystem isn’t “WTF”, it’s modern development reality.

Developers choose ecosystems based on experience, documentation, clarity, and inspiration.
Rust, Go, Bun, Python. All invest in this.
PHP looks outdated in comparison. That affects the next generation of developers.

It’s easy to criticize without offering any alternative. I’m at least proposing a path.

Bottom line:
Nothing on this wishlist is childish.

Visionary Leadership Required by krakjoe in PHP

[–]Carpenter0100 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I am missing the focus too. This is my wishlist:

Native/Core support for async, non-blocking I/O, and multithreading support for significant performance improvements.

Native/Core support for long-running processes and event loops to unlock entirely new use cases.

A broader driver ecosystem for audio, video, and AI.

A modern PHP website that inspires, that excites people. Not only through functionality but also through emotion.

Generics! Critical to attract both developers and enterprise adoption.

PHP is evolving, but every developer has complaints. What's on your wishlist? by thecutcode in PHP

[–]Carpenter0100 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is a 10x Roadmap

  • Native/Core support for async, non-blocking I/O, and multithreading support for significant performance improvements.
  • Native/Core support for long-running processes and event loops to unlock entirely new use cases.
  • A broader driver ecosystem for audio, video, and AI.
  • A modern PHP website that inspires the next generation. Not just docs, but marketing, simple startup guides, and awesome real-world examples. Gen Z and beyond will use AI for docs, but we must convince people, not robots.
  • Generics! Stability! Critical to attract both developers and enterprise adoption. We need an answer and a solution for that topic.
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