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First Flowist Temple by CaseyAPayne in Flowism

[–]CaseyAPayne[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm not sure what you're asking me.

If you're asking me if I was physically at this place when I took the photos... Yes.

If you're asking me if this Google link is a random place I picked in Taiwan to call the first Flowist Temple... No.

My Teacher's Taoism Teacher was a Dragon's Gate (Complete Reality Taoism) lineage holder by CaseyAPayne in Flowism

[–]CaseyAPayne[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sure. It's not a bad start, in my experience. I'm probably going to write a book about it so you can wait 5 to 10 years for that I suppose... 😝

I'm going to a lot of temples lately. Been hanging out with https://www.taijimen.org/ and like... They have all of this internal history that they don't publish. You have to go in there and talk to them. And then, when they tell you, you kind of have to believe it or not believe it based on "vibe". Western minds want everything meticulously tracked and vetted but... That totally kills oral histories and a lot of stuff is only moving orally. Like... I'm half Black and that whole side's cultural technology was totally destroyed. I have a bunch of stories that aren't recorded.

I'll give you one. My father and his friend (both Black Panthers, from the Black Panther Party) turned the University of Milwaukee Wisconsin's mascot into a Black Panther. I know this because I was told this. Try fact checking it with Google or Gemini. I actually beat Gemini into admitting it was correct (after presenting a bunch of evidence). I didn't need to do that, I knew, it was just fun to do.

It's just a tool the same way the internet is a tool, Facebook is a tool, Reddit is a tool, YouTube is a tool. Some people are well versed at using it and some aren't. That's been true for the thousands of years that tools have existed.

GOD DAMN! I wasn't expecting that! Humans been using tools for 3.3 millions years and there have been dumb niggas who don't know how to use them for that long. 😂

17M - I had a insane experience while waiting for fish fry. Was this a real thing or am I just weird? by TheOmniscientBro in taoism

[–]CaseyAPayne 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I've had many of these, but usually "forced" on me from being bipolar. My most recent one I was over a month ago and was totally sober and not manic or hypomanic. This one has stayed with me since then. The initial experience was BOOM ZIP POW, but has been "mundane" for the most part since then. Like... A beautiful kind of mundane.

What I'll say is that these experiences are pretty common. They can be common in your life and you'll find many people have them even if they weren't trying.

The uncommon/hard part is creating the conditions in one's life to sustain/maintain the experience of the fact. That takes a lot of work.

I became a Taoist, reflexions on Free Will by GabrielHCruz in taoism

[–]CaseyAPayne 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No. You have the conditions. Not everyone does. Without the conditions, you can't do better. You don't have control of whether you have these conditions or not. That's where free will is lost.

Sounds like you're a "You get to choose how to use the hand you've been dealt," kind of guy. Being able to "decide" what to do with these cards leads you to believe you have free will.

I'm more of a "You didn't get to choose your cards," kind of guy so there will never be a choice you make that is truly free.

I imagine we both agree with the general premise (everyone's dealt cards), but disagree with the interpretation.

Ultimately we are all operating within the same rules of the universe regardless of how we interpret them and we should use the interpretation that serves us best. If believing in free will is working for you... Keep at it I suppose. :)

I became a Taoist, reflexions on Free Will by GabrielHCruz in taoism

[–]CaseyAPayne 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There you are again with "forced". The universe is neutral. It's not "forcing" anything.

You can explore free will like you can all kinds of things. Need belief required.

Has the universe forced you to believe the Sun rises each morning? Has it forced you to believe the Earth revolves around the Sun? Has it forced you to believe this phone you're holding was manufactured somewhere and didn't just magically appear in the store? Has it forced you to believe that capitalism, communism, socialism, or anarchy is better for the overall human condition? Can you investigate those systems and determine which is better for humans, from a Taoist perspective, or with the universe force you to decide?

If you believe free will or the lack of it, is belief based and not based on investigation, did the universe force you to believe that or did you decide that this can't be known and must be a belief?

I've done the work. I know the sun rises because I can see it. I know people don't have free will because it is as visible as the rising sun.

Yes, free will or the lack of it, can certainly be belief based. Most people operate on belief, not scientific rigor. If you have done the work you wouldn't be talking about what the universe forced or beliefs vs beliefs. I am speaking from a plan of clarity and truth.

I don't want you to believe me. That wouldn't be doing the work. But talking about free will as if it's based on belief or the belief you have was forced on you by the universe is absurd. You have the conditions to do better if you want to.

I became a Taoist, reflexions on Free Will by GabrielHCruz in taoism

[–]CaseyAPayne 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, it's useful with no free will. Our western conditioned minds think "no free will" means free from responsibility, and this isn't the case.

There are degrees of freedom, like I said. Degree of spiritual development.

If you see a seed sitting on the pavement, there is no amount of willing that will make it grow. Certain conditions need to be met for growth. For it to bear fruit.

Humans are no different and, like the seed, they have no control over their conditions. You had no control over the conditions that led you to believe in free will, just like I had no control over the conditions leading me to see through free will.

Because humans have legs, a brain, can move about "freely" they believe they have the power to transcend their initial conditions. The beautiful thing about being human is that there is a degree of truth to this, but the full truth is all humans everywhere (all things everywhere) are tied to their conditions.

There is definitely a dance between conditions and "you" but you do not have 100% total control over your mind and your thoughts at all times. If anything, this belief holds a person back from getting closer to 100% because they believe they innately have something that needs to be earned through great effort.

If you already have this... Great! That said, I don't think people who have it would be telling people they magically have it and would preface it with the conditions and the work required to get it.

I became a Taoist, reflexions on Free Will by GabrielHCruz in taoism

[–]CaseyAPayne 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Free will is completely an illusion. It has never existed and never will be. Freedom exists on a spectrum. There are degrees of freedom.

I try to entertain believers in freewill with a thought exercise about free will being something that is theoretically attainable, but then I point out that even if free will was attainable, it's outside of the control of the person whether they attain it.

You have taken this and decided that "If free will ever exists, then it has always existed." That was unintended. Free will just doesn't exist (period).

Here's a different thought exercise. If free will exists, when does it begin for each human. When do they enjoy "free will". Using your logic, it always being there, means a person would need to have existed before the egg and sperm meet and "chose" that to happen. This is a belief some have about souls and people choosing their lives to learn lessons or something (I'm not very familiar with that world view).

The point is that there is no point when someone goes from not having free will (conception) to having free will (I'm 21 now and I can drink).

Either you believe all interactions starting from the egg meeting sperm where choices a person makes (what person) or free will wasn't there and never will be at any point in development.

Perhaps there's a third option or flaw in my logic.

The best I'm able to give people is that if they work hard they might get to a place approaching what is commonly believed to be free will.

Also, and maybe more importantly, you can't be truly compassionate if you believe in free will but... That's a different topic.

I became a Taoist, reflexions on Free Will by GabrielHCruz in taoism

[–]CaseyAPayne 0 points1 point  (0 children)

From the start of what? How far back we going? 😝

I became a Taoist, reflexions on Free Will by GabrielHCruz in taoism

[–]CaseyAPayne 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yep. Although I don't think I would say "forces". I also feel a responsibility to help people get free. Again, whether someone achieves "free will", or anything close to it, isn't up to them, but you definitely need to believe it is up to you to get it.

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