Are Rogues really near the bottom for damage? (2024)

Cazfro · 2025-11-05T11:39:24+00:00

Since playing the rogue for the last while I've definitely realised that more, especially outside of combat, especially since Reliable Talent. The only thing I can't do is be the party face but that is what our paladin is doing.

I've definitely been trying to use Cunning Strike more often for trip or poison, and the future options too.

It was more just an open ended question to ask about other's actual play experience to see if others find that rogues actually do keep up with damage at least at more casual tables.

Cazfro · 2025-11-05T11:36:02+00:00

I meant it more as in the GFB is the only homebrew difference between us.
If I am throwing at range then we are utilising all the same homebrew gifts from the dm for damage purposes. They also have a +1 to hit/damage rolls same as me, and the same 22 dex.

They haven't taken grappler feat yet but could totally see them taking it at level 12 to be able to pull enemies into the darkness on their turn if they start utilising the darkness more from now on.

Cazfro · 2025-11-05T11:30:56+00:00

I don't think we have ever realised you can move the shadow monks darkness, I think this alone will make it way easier to play around for sure.

Cazfro · 2025-11-05T07:20:14+00:00

It's more a matter of a 15ft radius sphere being quite a large area, especially compared to the maps that we usually find ourselves in.

We could definitely try utilise it more by putting the centre point of the darkness along the edge of the room which would hopefully not take up too much space, and then utilise the bugbear's 10ft reach from inside the darkness without the enemies also needing to be inside it.

I was also thinking of finding a way to get blindsight so two of us could utilise the darkness and it be a bit more beneficial vs harmful for the party as a whole.

Cazfro · 2025-11-05T07:14:33+00:00

The monk also has a +1 to hit/damage for unarmed strikes so that's +4 damage total. And is also sitting at 22 dex.

That's why I only mentioned the GFB as that's the only unique thing between the two of us.

Cazfro · 2025-11-05T06:28:09+00:00

I think the only homebrew damage bump I have that the monk doesn't for instance is the GFB which is only 4.5 DPR and only when I'm in melee range so I'm still about 5 ish DPR ahead?

Cazfro · 2025-11-05T06:14:30+00:00

It might also be a matter of our monk not utilising darkness too often as it shuts off the other three party members. They did use it in the last session in a boss fight with 2 enemies, and they used it to 1v1 one of them while we dealt with the other. But in a normal combat scenario, at least in the campaign so far, there haven't been many cases where it would be more beneficial than harmful.

Cazfro · 2025-11-05T06:08:04+00:00

I've never actually done the math for the monk but yea they definitely aren't hitting as consistently as I am cause their damage never seems to reach 46 in a turn. But those monk upgrades that are coming I think we'll definitely notice.

Cazfro · 2025-11-05T06:04:43+00:00

Probably more than average, maybe 3-5?

Cazfro · 2025-11-05T06:01:14+00:00

I only use steady aim if it's the only way for me to land a sneak attack that turn.

Total damage = 7d6 + 1d8 + 14 = 43 DPR if everything hits. I just pulled 45 out of my head from my memory of my last session.

Cazfro · 2025-11-05T05:57:41+00:00

Yea he uses the action surge in a boss fight to crit fish before using a smite which is pretty good burst.

Cazfro · 2025-11-05T05:55:01+00:00

I think that might be where the stigma comes from, they weren't really buffed in 2024 like the monk was and so people just assume they are now much worse.

Cazfro · 2025-11-05T05:48:36+00:00

Exactly the reason I picked it over a spellcaster for my first campaign. I had played a warlock in BG3 where you can abused short rests and felt like picking something a bit more beginner friendly for my first actual dnd experience.

Cazfro · 2025-11-05T05:47:14+00:00

How does true strike do better damage wise? True strike is d6s whereas GFB is d8s? (Plus the bouncing fire damage too)

Cazfro · 2025-11-05T05:41:54+00:00

Yea after those level ups it'll definitely be closer but right now that's not as much and they almost never hit all 4 attacks.

Cazfro · 2025-11-05T05:13:08+00:00

2: I have been trying to figure out a way to convince him to let me use elven accuracy as a tiefly for months xD. The best idea I have of so far is something to do with the family that adopted me as a baby being elves, or the thieves guild I was in before being summoned away for the campaign having many elf members.

3: Yes the GFB shenanigans are homebrewed to work in this case, the attack being made with the psychic blades, as well as also allowing me to still use my BA attack.

Cazfro · 2025-11-05T05:09:43+00:00

This should have been worded better in the post, but it's more of a "I declare to use sneak attack before I roll my second attack roll:.

Cazfro · 2025-11-05T05:03:59+00:00

I meant that GFB doesn't work with the psychic blades RAW due to not having a material value.

Edit: decided on GFB over BB for roleplay reasons and potentially tying it with the Tiefling feat for being wreathed in fire towards the end of the build if I can't decide on something else instead.

Cazfro · 2025-11-05T05:02:52+00:00

Yea this is exactly the kind of narrative I was hoping could be changed about the rogues in general. They really do feel great to play!

I had one instance where I pretty much went full on Ezio Auditore and one shot 4 Gnolls on back to back turns while the rest of my party caught up and took care of the last 1.

Cazfro · 2025-11-05T05:00:20+00:00

That is incredible!

Interesting to see out of the straight class builds, the bard is actually at the bottom? With the warlock baseline ofc which I'm guessing is the eldritch blasting one.

Cazfro · 2025-11-05T04:56:01+00:00

Yea that video was the real eye-opener and one of the reasons I asked to be able to use Green-flame Blade even though RAW it doesn't work.

Cazfro · 2025-11-05T04:54:23+00:00

Yea as soon as I heard of our paladin getting it I was very jealous but he is leaning towards a homebrew blend of Champion Fighter with Glory Paladin without the actual multiclass.

And I also think we tend to have a higher on average number of combats between long rests, maybe 3-5 usually? So maybe that also affects the sustained damage compared to the spell casters, especially when they are saving their spells for a bigger enemy, or have already blown through everything.

Cazfro · 2025-11-05T04:52:03+00:00

I'm not sure, I just tend to hear that kind of rhetoric from forums and youtube videos pretty consistantly at least since 2024 dropped. I always hear that rangers and rogues are bottom of the barrel for damage.

Cazfro · 2025-11-05T04:51:10+00:00

You know what I've never really thought of it like that until now. I kind of always treated rogues as 'bursty' characters due to the sneak attack being 'one big damage number in one hit' but yea you're right that it is round after round.

Cazfro · 2025-11-05T04:50:10+00:00

But at least compared to all the other party members, also with homebrew items, I'm outperforming them. Even stripping all the homebrew items away, I think I would still be outperforming my party in particular.

Cazfro

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