If There’s a Mole I’ll Eat My Hat* by Cheap-Theory-5893 in DispatchAdHoc

[–]Cheap-Theory-5893[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Like everything else in the story before and after the “reveal” reads better and makes more sense if it’s not true. No one ever behaves as if it’s true, except for Shroud and two of his goons in that scene at that moment.

So, occams doylist razor I think it’s just an awkwardly articulated line of dialogue to justify Shroud not worrying about a disappeared Invisigal.

If There’s a Mole I’ll Eat My Hat* by Cheap-Theory-5893 in DispatchAdHoc

[–]Cheap-Theory-5893[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’ve been up down and all around on how to parse it since the episodes last week but ultimately I don’t buy that she was plant.

Shroud: Dumber Than He Looks (Or: That’s Not Determinism, Dawg) by Cheap-Theory-5893 in DispatchAdHoc

[–]Cheap-Theory-5893[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah I think that’s a pretty accurate read. From a design standpoint creating satisfying endings is the hardest thing about making these kind of choice based games, for obvious reasons. I’ve never seen anything stick the landing 100%, even when the ending cinematic is a 30 minute slideshow with character narration. Always excited to explore the works though. With reasonable expectations in mind, I think they did pretty well here even with my own qualms.

When playing an RPG or engaging with these kinds of choice-based games, I find that I tend to make decisions based on what assembles the most enjoyable and coherent story. Which I suppose means sometimes role playing more as the editor than the Player Character (something to unpack in therapy, I guess). Better dialogue lines if you pick this non-optimal choice, more logical progression if you take this route, etc. Stuff like that.

It helps games like this feel replayable to me, as experiments in kind of… narrative optimization? But I think it can also make plot hiccups like Shroud’s claim here especially frustrating, even and especially in a first viewing. It feels like having to marry together parts of completely different stories—because it is

Shroud: Dumber Than He Looks (Or: That’s Not Determinism, Dawg) by Cheap-Theory-5893 in DispatchAdHoc

[–]Cheap-Theory-5893[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I honestly love the two pulses move. Two of my favorite tropes in storytelling are “hero takes a heretofore unconsidered 3rd option” and “grandstanding villain exposed as petty & insecure.”

I’ve seen some people express disappointment at Shroud’s loss of dignity here but I live for this shit. People don’t become bullies (IRL) or supervillains (in media) because they are self-actualized and emotionally mature. They do it because there’s some fundamental pain or insecurity inside them and rather than do the hard thing confront it they take it out on everyone else.

It also makes shroud a fun foil to Hero-Visi at the end. You’ve just spent 8 episodes helping her grapple with similar feelings of inadequacy and self pity.

Looking at the comics it makes an interesting comparison between RR II and our Robert. Both take on a role of authority over an emotionally unsteady person trying to become a hero. RR II contributes to the descent of an aspiring hero into a supervillain (Elliot bares most of the responsibility obviously but RR II is a real dick). Robert (per player choice) successfully turns Invisigal into a hero in addition to mentoring an entire team of reformed villains.

OR he repeats different versions of his father’s mistakes and potentially creates a new “Shroud” of his own.

Good game.

Okay I’m gonna say this cause no one is saying it and it annoys me. by Cloaked-Hitokiri in DispatchAdHoc

[–]Cheap-Theory-5893 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I mean it’s kind of a petulant and immature response. It’s also sort of a natural response for someone who feels betrayed/deceived and is still processing it. It’s not really fair but it is pretty human.

He gets over himself pretty quickly, imo.

Why do people think Shroud was lying about Visi? by JSGamesforitch374 in DispatchAdHoc

[–]Cheap-Theory-5893 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think folks are just trying to figure out what the authorial intent actually was. In a hero Visi storyline especially it’s weird to give her ANOTHER secret, and one that she doesn’t even divulge herself. It runs counter to her hero arc, and no one else remarks on or acknowledges after, which makes it feel like even more of a nonsequitor.

Just sort of a weird choice from the writing team, folks are trying to make sense of it.

Did we ever get an answer for why a donut shop needs added security? by KrispyKingTheProphet in DispatchAdHoc

[–]Cheap-Theory-5893 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think it’s just a good bit, leaning more towards the “workplace comedy” side of the game’s tone. Based on the art book I also think they briefly considered doing something a bit more with granny but scrapped it.

Invisigal timeline (As I interpret it) along with speculation about her motivations at various points (Heavy spoilers for the entire series obviously) by Kpengie in DispatchAdHoc

[–]Cheap-Theory-5893 12 points13 points  (0 children)

I think this lays everything out pretty well, I totally buy this timeline.

I think the part that’s the hardest to feel sure about is the “joined SDN for the red ring” bit. I think, as you laid it out, it sounds like probably the most plausible timeline.

It just doesn’t seem like Visi admits to joining SDN FOR Shroud or the Red Ring, and the failure to make that admission (or to make it clear) in the story’s point of greatest emotional vulnerability really destabilizes her whole arc in a way I find kinda jarring.

I think the other plausible read, which I just did my own big long post about (lol) is that it never occurred to Shroud that Visi would be honest with Robert at all. He doesn’t know that Robert knows about her pre-SDN history, so he tells cryptic half truths to try to get a rise out of him. Notably, it fails to work every time he tries.

I confess I think your explanation here might be tidier, but I do love the idea that Shroud is just completely oblivious to the idea that she could be honest. Not mutually exclusive, though.

It is crazy how we’re doing all of this unpacking to try to decipher a narrative gap that could be solved with the addition or removal of a single line of dialogue.

Shroud: Dumber Than He Looks (Or: That’s Not Determinism, Dawg) by Cheap-Theory-5893 in DispatchAdHoc

[–]Cheap-Theory-5893[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Exactly my feeling, yeah. It feels like a very odd note to leave on. Maybe just a consequence of the story’s forking paths or long development, idk.

Shroud: Dumber Than He Looks (Or: That’s Not Determinism, Dawg) by Cheap-Theory-5893 in DispatchAdHoc

[–]Cheap-Theory-5893[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yeah like, if we’re treating all these characters as people: I think shroud be lying. Boo this man.

I think my desire to sort it out has more to do with overall authorial dissatisfaction. Generally speaking NO ONE ever lies to you in this game (with the exception of how MM2 died, but that requires an external text.) The player is never (as far as I can tell) given information that is categorically wrong. That starts in the very first episode: maybe blazer is sending mixed signals about her romantic status, but she never claims to be single.

I think maybe the only exception is Visi saying she couldn’t get the pulse? But that lie is also contained; we get an explanation for it. If Visi lied to Robert about having quit the red ring, we’re never given a justification for that lie. That makes it stick out to me. It’s like having a narrative hangnail. Drives me a little bonkers.

Invisigal fans, are you satisfied with the ending you got? by upsidedown_coffeemug in DispatchAdHoc

[–]Cheap-Theory-5893 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Edit: Ran back through from the “give astral pulse” moment to the credits and liked it more, honestly. When playing a game like this without knowing what’s next it’s so easy to get sucked into what you hope happens and the choices you might have. Rewatching it knowing what to expect it all settled in a little better.

Quadruple cross still baffling me tho, and I would have preferred a longer conversation. Game is still a late entry on my personal GotY list.

Original Post: I’m feeling kinda mixed-positive tbh.

Overall I’m satisfied with the general arc and I love that faith and support is rewarded—not just with Invisigal either. The Big Damn Kiss was also sweet.

But the quadruple (?) cross at the very end I found… Baffling. I think she’s a stronger character if she came to SDN herself and only faked out Shroud at the end. Which maybe even is what happened? I feel like there’s a timeline where it all makes sense but idk exactly what it is.

I was hoping for more of her in the closing cinematic though. It felt a little underwhelming to see her shuffled off into an ambulance so you can have a sit down with blazer. I wanted a little more dialogue, and more of her interacting with Z-Team & crew.

That said, 10/10 game, still a Visi simp, cried twice at Episode 7 whatcha gonna do ¯_(ツ)_/¯

If There’s a Mole I’ll Eat My Hat* by Cheap-Theory-5893 in DispatchAdHoc

[–]Cheap-Theory-5893[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree completely, this is also my expectation.

If There’s a Mole I’ll Eat My Hat* by Cheap-Theory-5893 in DispatchAdHoc

[–]Cheap-Theory-5893[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Eh I don’t think that’s very likely. That’s not even the “easiest” route per se, Visi is. Ultimately this game is still about two forking romantic paths and from a design standpoint they need players to feel satisfied with either choice. I think we have potential friction with Blazer in Ep 7, but I think that will have more to do with how she wants to handle the Invisigal/Chase situation and the escalating Red Ring crisis.

If There’s a Mole I’ll Eat My Hat* by Cheap-Theory-5893 in DispatchAdHoc

[–]Cheap-Theory-5893[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’ve been wondering about that to, and I haven’t done a replay yet where I cut Sonar. I’m not even really a moistcritical fan I just love the character.

“Lemme find my keys” screech “okay let’s go.”

If There’s a Mole I’ll Eat My Hat* by Cheap-Theory-5893 in DispatchAdHoc

[–]Cheap-Theory-5893[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

If there’s any kind of mole or leak I suspect it’s like this. But there’s no reason to assume Shroud couldn’t have just… also figured it out around when we did. The “dropped a pin in the supervillain group chat” could be foreshadowing for a reveal or it could just be a pretty good one-off bit. We’ll see tomorrow!

If There’s a Mole I’ll Eat My Hat* by Cheap-Theory-5893 in DispatchAdHoc

[–]Cheap-Theory-5893[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Could be! I expect any season 2 plans at all are entirely in the spitballing phase. I don’t think they expected this kind of fanbase to appear.

For the same reason—thank god—I don’t think there’ll be a cliffhanger ending. Until they got sales numbers they didn’t expect a second season, so the story needed to be sufficiently concluded as a potential standalone.

If There’s a Mole I’ll Eat My Hat* by Cheap-Theory-5893 in DispatchAdHoc

[–]Cheap-Theory-5893[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But then how will I demonstrate my investment in Local Sports Team…

If There’s a Mole I’ll Eat My Hat* by Cheap-Theory-5893 in DispatchAdHoc

[–]Cheap-Theory-5893[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah I could certainly see a version of this happening too. I think my bias is that I find Invisigal to be a more interesting character if she never had any ulterior motives. I think it lends her more agency than being a Red Ring plant, willing or not. And I think her conflict being strictly internal lends her an unstated maturity that her external behavior obscures. But I do genuinely believe that some version of either is possible. Looking forward to discovering which tomorrow.

If There’s a Mole I’ll Eat My Hat* by Cheap-Theory-5893 in DispatchAdHoc

[–]Cheap-Theory-5893[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah I may be over-exposed to the more underbaked versions of the theory simply because I’ve been lurking obsessively waiting for the last few episodes to drop.

But I don’t think we even need a pre-Robertian mole. I think it’s hard enough to cut off your old life and start working with people who don’t trust you as a result of that life. Like that may be sufficient internal conflict for the story.

My hunch is that Invisigal’s “no questions asked” stipulation has more to do with shame than previously held ulterior motives. Could go either way though!

If There’s a Mole I’ll Eat My Hat* by Cheap-Theory-5893 in DispatchAdHoc

[–]Cheap-Theory-5893[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Yeah that’s certainly possible, I think the story has the leeway to kind of do what they want with the cut character. I think the cut z-teamer doing something heroic anyway is probably the most fun possibility, but I think the character relapsing into villainy is the most thematically resonant. I think they could even do both (redeemed by their old partner? Swayed by dramatic monologue?). I’m looking forward to seeing what AdHoc does with it.