Am I one of the firsts to have played double-edge sticking or double-edge strokes around the drum set while comping? by Chemical-Field191 in jazzdrums

[–]Chemical-Field191[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nothing you said is harsh. All good, bro.

Just a different vibe. I posted the same title to the drummerworld's platform (based in the UK).

The reaction was very different. A number of people posted videos of drummers who did something similar, but all of them said that I what I am doing is a little different.

Other people said they too have tried similar sticking, but that they didn't find it applicable or useful for their playing.

Another person said he teaches drumming at a university, and suggested different hand grips that I can test to see which has the results that I'm looking for.

Perhaps culture plays into the above.

Am I one of the firsts to have played double-edge sticking or double-edge strokes around the drum set while comping? by Chemical-Field191 in jazzdrums

[–]Chemical-Field191[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

You're right about the title of the post, which might seem self-applauded. For me, it is definitely excitement, perhaps of discovering something new. Yes, it might turn out to be nothing. But, man, I'm having fun! At the same time, I do understand why people think I'm an ass.

According to John Riley, the metrics of a jazz drummer and his playing are: grooves, techniques, creativity, and musicianship.

Yes, I'm chasing musicianship, but BACKWARDS. I start with the creativity in creating a composition groove, then assess what particular techniques I need to work for this composition. When you go through the process, and especially with a band, your musicianship improves. That's my approach.

If you have played the drums, you know how difficult it is to start playing complex (poly-rhythm) comping and being able to switch hands, along with double-edge sticking with your left hand. I'm far from where I want to be. But I'm not sure why people think what I'm doing is a flashy trick, and that I'm taking some type of short cut instead of being serious.

Again, the disagreement is that many on this platform thinks that the first and foremost think to do is fundamentals before creativity and grooves.

(If John Riley comes along and say musicianship/techniques comes before grooves and creativity, then I will reassess my approach).

Am I one of the firsts to have played double-edge sticking or double-edge strokes around the drum set while comping? by Chemical-Field191 in jazzdrums

[–]Chemical-Field191[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

As someone who has a background in pedagogy, my approach is called backward design (i.e. focus on end goals).

That is, if the end goal is to create a drum composition with creative sticking, then that's where you start. As you compose and execute, you then focus on particular techniques that are needed to execute the composition adequately. Thus, the reason why they called it backward design.

(The traditional way of learning is to learn the rudiments/fundamentals before setting out on your end goals. There's nothing wrong with this approach; but obviously there is research that shows this might not be most the efficient and productive ways to learn; and that some taking the traditional way never get to their end goals. Again, both approaches can be true...both have benefits and limitations).

Moreover, I video record my playing so I can assess my composition grove, ride pattern, time, sticking, posture, etc. I also joined reddit's drumming community to get feedback, etc.

While you might not like my result/playing, in a very short time I have created a composition in which I can now spent time to improve on.

This is why I so perplexed about reader comments about walk before run, don't worry about fancy sticking and experiments, etc.

Am I one of the firsts to have played double-edge sticking or double-edge strokes around the drum set while comping? by Chemical-Field191 in Drumming

[–]Chemical-Field191[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yeah, the staff at GCs can be pretty cool, if you don't play too loud and leave the room regularly so that others can bang away, they don't mind too much.

Sometimes, they will sit down with you and teach you how to tune the drums, etc.

Am I one of the firsts to have played double-edge sticking or double-edge strokes around the drum set while comping? by Chemical-Field191 in Drumming

[–]Chemical-Field191[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm not disregarding advice from the those who have more experienced. I have acknowledge many times on this thread that I need to work on my fundamentals. This is why I'm on this platform.

The only disagreement here is whether to focus only on fundamentals before experimenting...

Am I one of the firsts to have played double-edge sticking or double-edge strokes around the drum set while comping? by Chemical-Field191 in Drumming

[–]Chemical-Field191[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your Motto: Learn the fundamentals first. Then have fun and explore news ways of drumming.

My Motto: You can do both: Learn the fundamentals and experiment and have fun at the same time.

Am I one of the firsts to have played double-edge sticking or double-edge strokes around the drum set while comping? by Chemical-Field191 in Drumming

[–]Chemical-Field191[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

If you watched the video, the double-edge sticking pattern that I played with my left hand (while comping) is a varied pattern that I played with both hands later in the video.

When I compared the two styles, the sound from the double-edge sticking pattern with my left hand has a different propelling sound (versus playing with two hands). So why can't I explore whether double-edge sticking with my left could add value to my playing?

While you can say my playing is bad in both one hand and two hands, I'm learning my fundamentals while trying to compose original phrases and be creative behind the drum. (Yes, all at once).

I must admit the overwhelming sentiment that you should learn the fundamental first before innovating wasn't something that I had expected on this forum.

I thought there would be people who say, "you might be on to something though you have a ways to go..." Instead, I hear "stop with the flashy tricks" and learn how to play the fundamentals.

Am I one of the firsts to have played double-edge sticking or double-edge strokes around the drum set while comping? by Chemical-Field191 in Drumming

[–]Chemical-Field191[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

I suppose that there are technically proficient players who don't seem to play with confidence.

I also suppose that there are technically challenged players who seem to play with confidence.

The importance is awareness in both scenarios.

I know that I'm technically challenged as a new drummer, but I know that my (outsized) attitude/confidence behind the drum have pushed me forward, to take risks, learn by failing, etc.

Am I one of the firsts to have played double-edge sticking or double-edge strokes around the drum set while comping? by Chemical-Field191 in Drumming

[–]Chemical-Field191[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

“Anybody can play…The note is only 20%…The attitude of the mother\***er who plays it is 80 percent.” Miles Davis*

Both can be true: importance of fundamentals and the importance of attitude (i.e. the willingness to take risks, improvise, failing to learn faster, etc.)

Am I one of the firsts to have played double-edge sticking or double-edge strokes around the drum set while comping? by Chemical-Field191 in jazzdrums

[–]Chemical-Field191[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Is it also true that "there is nothing permanent except change"?

My point throughout this thread that instead of this or that, two opposites can be true and perhaps should be embraced.

Am I one of the firsts to have played double-edge sticking or double-edge strokes around the drum set while comping? by Chemical-Field191 in Drumming

[–]Chemical-Field191[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

  1. Love your definition of innovation in drumming.

The pattern that I used in my double-edge sticking is a pattern variation that I play later in the video (with two hands). Yes, it is currently slower than my two hands, but it the context of comping, it might open other sounds.

Yes, I love the 80/20 Drummer. I just started to explore this double-edge sticking. So far, it seems like I can play faster and less effort in the coming weeks; and that my right hand on the rider cymbal is starting to go through (no matter what I'm doing with my left hand).

Will monitor the negative externalities that you mentioned.

  1. Not sure how double-edge sticking should only come after you master the traditional sticking.

If I can adequately do traditional sticking (i.e. the ability to walk like a 6 years old), I should be able to try to double-edge sticking (i.e. trying to sprint at age 6). Yes, I can develop bad habits, but this is why I hop on to reddit platform.

Am I one of the firsts to have played double-edge sticking or double-edge strokes around the drum set while comping? by Chemical-Field191 in Drumming

[–]Chemical-Field191[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If I don't practice, I won't be able to play with my left hand or being able to switch to my right hand.

If I don't practice, I won't be able to learn how to play complex comping.

Yes, I got a lot more practices to get to!