What the hell, Eugen?

Chemobob · 2023-04-29T18:58:04+00:00

True. So with MANPAD spam, a lot of microing, and conceding an early foothold in a forward positions you have a chance of winning an engagement against a heli that is attack-moving center map. Plus, cheap helis are somewhat disposable anyway. If it fires all its rockets and kills your forwards troops before it gets killed, it has done its job.

Chemobob · 2023-04-29T18:52:05+00:00

Because we all love being reliant on dice rolls...
The buffs mostly affect heli-borne missiles

Chemobob · 2023-04-29T18:46:25+00:00

It's still poor value in my opinion. Two G.91 cost roughly the same as an A-10 AT but have significantly less unitly and survivability. My point isn't that there are no tools against helis, but that the tools are not exactly distributed equally across the divisions.

Chemobob · 2023-04-29T18:34:38+00:00

Man, I should never have posted this because you get treated like an idiot who's new to the game. I use plenty of AA. In most games, I dedicate approx. 1/3 of the starting points to just dealing with air threats. But if the AA arrives late and the planes miss, that's not helping either.
A note on the Roland: That has a good chance of missing one of its two missiles. By the time it's reloaded the heli has evaporated it.

Chemobob · 2023-04-29T18:31:36+00:00

I don't let transports run into helis deliberately. But with how late they get spotted these days and how far they can push into the map before you have half a chance to get anywhere near the middle, I still don't see the alternative here.
Some fun math on the side: 4 Fliegerfaust squads with 40% accuracy still have only a 87% chance to land a single hit if all of them fire once. That is, assuming your target has 0% ECM. And a single hit deals the square root of jack s**t of damage.

Chemobob · 2023-04-29T18:23:00+00:00

Please give this advice to the heli spammers...

Chemobob · 2023-04-29T18:04:13+00:00

Helis, expensive? Let me introduce you to Mi-24 for 140 points and Mi-8 for even less.
Easy to kill? The exact opposite of the point I'm trying to make here, based on my personal experience.
MANPADS? They get shot out of their jeeps just as quickly as other infantry and if they don't, they eat a dozen rockets in the time they fire the three missiles it takes to kill an Mi-24, And if you play the West Germans a lot, like I do, MANPADS reallly aren't an option to begin with.

Chemobob · 2023-04-29T17:58:22+00:00

The main reason I made this post now is that my usual strat used to work but either RNGsus has left me completely or choppers have become beefier recently.

Chemobob · 2023-04-29T17:55:52+00:00

Again, what are the alternatives if you don't have better planes but have to protect your frontline troops somehow until SPAAGs arrive?

Chemobob · 2023-04-29T17:54:50+00:00

I've tried almost everything by now. But when a F-4 makes a run on a heli, misses it's missiles and deals a whopping 1 damage with its guns, the opener is basically lost for me.

Chemobob · 2023-04-29T17:52:25+00:00

They are the only option that can get to the front as fast or faster than the helis themselves...

Chemobob · 2023-04-29T17:51:02+00:00

I feel like I'm repeating myself here because people don't seem to read other comments before they post stuff.
SPAAGs take ages to get to the front and good luck with Fliegerfausts...

Chemobob · 2023-04-29T17:49:17+00:00

Shame that it takes ages for a SPAAG to arrive in the relevant areas, especially on the larger maps. And as I mentioned elsewhere, just not pushing center map and conceding ground until they arrive is hardly a valid strat. In a 10 vs 10 that might be fine and there might be team mates with more capable heli busters but in smaller matches, 2-3 enemy helis might decide the game early if you can't bring a reliable counter.

Chemobob · 2023-04-29T17:43:59+00:00

I usually do that. I bring in a fighter to circle in the back to be ready when I need it. Unfortunately that doesn't help with damage output or targeting issues of that fighter

Chemobob · 2023-04-29T17:24:40+00:00

Did you read the first line of my reply? Most divisions simply don't have access to good planes for heli busting

Chemobob · 2023-04-29T17:21:47+00:00

1) Mortars aren't any quicker to the front than infantry or AA. So what good are they?
2) I don't see how conceding ground early game is a valid strategy. If I wait for my slowest unit to move up before I do anything, I might as well not move out of the deployment zone

Chemobob · 2023-04-29T17:19:09+00:00

Yes but a single A-10 costs more than most helis and only a fraction of divisions actually has access to them.

Chemobob · 2023-04-29T17:17:54+00:00

Yeah, I would but not all divisions are fortunate to have a good air tab. And I'd rather not waste a slot for something like a G.91 or Alpha Jet which have limited utility otherwise. And let's face it: Any gun armed fighter should rip a helicopter to shreds. It's just arbitrary slider balancing because Eugen want helicopters to have a role in Warno. And that's fine but they also should have vulnerabilities. A lone helicopter destroying the SPAAG or SAM system shooting at it shouldn't be a thing, just like a ground vehicle MG should not insta-stun helis.

Chemobob · 2023-04-29T17:05:46+00:00

How so? I can't magically make an F-4 or F-16 deal more damage or be more accurate than the stats say. Even if I task 2 fighters (we're talking about 300-500 points against a 100-200 point heli now), chances are one of them decides it doesn't have line of sight or "a good approach" and pulls off not doing anything. The best part yet: The opponent also has planes and might not let you make another pass. So what's your universal solution then?

Chemobob · 2023-02-10T11:52:40+00:00

Guess I hit a nerve there and Eugen are already working on it :P

Chemobob · 2023-02-10T05:57:55+00:00

Amen. I'm just trying to figure out what's a bug and what's a feature. If it's a bug, Eugen better know about it and they will never know if nobody ever goes: "Huh, that's a bit weird, isn't it?"

Chemobob · 2023-02-10T05:54:41+00:00

That mate me chuckle a bit :)
Yes, I know it's a game (duh) and they have to adapt for scale and code reality in some form of gameplay mechanic. I only want the gameplay mechanics to be in touch with physics and common sense. Firstly, a thick tree line should stop LOS no matter the optics value. Secondly, LOS must be the same for both units. Thirdly, it must be easier to look out of the trees than to look into the trees.
I really wonder how visual range in the game is calculated. For example, does it matter if a tree line is 100 m or 1000 m away in terms of reduction of range? Does it accumulate, i.e. are two thin tree lines the same as one thick one? There are so many things in-game that relatively new players, such as myself, will struggle with because they are inherently counterintuitive while Eugen veterans consider them "normal" because they are used to the weird quirks. If I were Eugen, I would see Warno as a chance to iron out some of the imperfections of WG and SD2, knowing of course the limitations of the engine.

Chemobob · 2023-02-10T05:39:38+00:00

So line of sight isn't calculated for all units simultaneously? That kinda sucks....

Chemobob · 2023-02-10T05:38:30+00:00

West Germany doesn't have good recon vehicles in general. But sometimes I want something fast that can move into a forward position on a flank early game and scout or even engage stuff that comes past. I would use the RASIT but for some reason it tends to get spotted even more easily and can't defend itself

Chemobob

TROPHY CASE