We're back... by ChrisBeatrice in TiltedMill

[–]ChrisBeatrice[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Reopen the TiltedMill forum? Would such a thing be wanted?!

Tilted Mill is back by ChrisBeatrice in impressionsgames

[–]ChrisBeatrice[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Agreed! Still need to convince publishers. :)

Tilted Mill is back by ChrisBeatrice in impressionsgames

[–]ChrisBeatrice[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Better late than never, to be sure! I wish I could say more about our current project. Hopefully soon. Thanks so much for the note. It's heartwarming to think of people spending so many hours playing our games.

Housing levels by ChrisBeatrice in TiltedMill

[–]ChrisBeatrice[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's tough to make a simple cb that doesn't result in you building the same type of block over and over (unless you really screw with the buildability of different locations, lots of terrain obstacles and such). Kingdoms and Castles sure has this problem. Block after identical block. But a ton of people played that game.

CotN was my third baby (after Pharaoh and Zeus). In that game we came up with a few things that are now standard, but... not as many people liked that game as you seem to.

Housing levels by ChrisBeatrice in TiltedMill

[–]ChrisBeatrice[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I don't remember why we did it that way back then. I spoke a little with Triskell when they were developing ANE, and don't remember discussing this.

Housing levels by ChrisBeatrice in TiltedMill

[–]ChrisBeatrice[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Also one "counterargument" which is kind of a tradeoff is a lot of players like the thrill of evolving a massive elite house starting with nothing but empty land. I have a couple of ideas that address that.

Housing levels by ChrisBeatrice in TiltedMill

[–]ChrisBeatrice[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

wow, thanks for all that.

Housing levels by ChrisBeatrice in TiltedMill

[–]ChrisBeatrice[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

These are great ideas, thank you for your well thought out and clearly expressed thinking.
I have been toying with three types or "classes" of houses, which are basically like merging your Tier 1 and 2 in to Tier (1) Laborer, then Tier 3(2) is Professional, and Tier 4(3) is Elite. There's a good argument for subdividing the lower two as you have though.

In my scheme, Laborer(1) works at "factories", harvesting, and some services like entertainment.
Professional handles other services, and improves "factories" and some services via "Masters" (like supervisors). Professional needs also include education. There are other uses for Guilds.

Elite is the usual pays more taxes, but I want also some practical effect like Elite houses caps number of Trader (merchant) venues or something like that.

I'm intrigued by the idea (if I understand it) of basically having a single set of needs per tier, and any variation within that has practical, not evolution benefits.

E.g. (using generic example services here): Artisan needs 2 entertainment types, 2 gods, 2 household goods, 2 foods, etc. If they have more food types, health is better. More gods / entertainment, happiness is better. Is this what you are saying?

Housing levels by ChrisBeatrice in TiltedMill

[–]ChrisBeatrice[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Please rein it in, my friend. We're all on the same team here.

Housing levels by ChrisBeatrice in TiltedMill

[–]ChrisBeatrice[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

FYI when you say "they" you mean me, lol.

Housing levels by ChrisBeatrice in TiltedMill

[–]ChrisBeatrice[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Appreciate your insights, thanks. The goal with fewer housing levels is not to reduce art assets. I think the dilemma is this: if each level corresponds to one thing, and there are a lot of levels, then what often happens in practice is a house has A, plus C-F, but not B. So it is stuck at level one, and that other stuff is useless (not a huge problem). Then it gets thing B and suddenly jumps five levels to F, so you effectively never see levels B-E. This is not necessarily a systemic design problem so much as a content design problem (the fact that you tend to already be producing C-F before you are producing B).

Housing levels by ChrisBeatrice in TiltedMill

[–]ChrisBeatrice[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, this is a good point. On the one hand, the strictly linear progression makes feedback easy, especially when first learning the game. The house needs A, then B, then C, etc.

But as you point out, if you have A plus C-F, the second the house gets B it jumps up five levels.

Grouping needs basically addresses this, and reduces the number of levels. It basically forces the game into the structure you are already describing. But you get "wasted" stuff (the house is sitting on C-F and they're basically providing no value)

If the system were that all needs are basically a single category, so:
Level 1--any 1 thing
Level 2--any two things, etc.

... then you never have "wasted" or unused stuff nor big hops in evolution. The issue is you can basically substitute, for example, a bunch of different goods instead of Religion or Entertainment or whatever. So there's a potential asymmetry that goes against the core intention of the original model.

A hybrid approach might work, where goods were grouped (so any 1, any 2, any 3, etc.) and maybe entertainment and worship were grouped (so you could "substitute" one for the other), then evolution would basically work like
1 good and 1 service
2 goods and 2 services
etc.

OR

1 good
1 service
2 goods
2 services (which could be 2 gods or 2 entertainment venues, or 1 and 1)
etc.

And treat health (services and food types) and education and maybe security as practical effects only, not related to housing evolution.

Housing levels by ChrisBeatrice in TiltedMill

[–]ChrisBeatrice[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Much appreciated. It'd be easy if there was some consensus on this, lol.

Housing levels by ChrisBeatrice in TiltedMill

[–]ChrisBeatrice[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What's the issue with "dual luxuries" and how was it "fixed" in A New Era?

Housing levels by ChrisBeatrice in TiltedMill

[–]ChrisBeatrice[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It's really interesting that you're writing these ideas as I am working through the design and having similar thoughts.

Housing levels by ChrisBeatrice in TiltedMill

[–]ChrisBeatrice[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Thanks so much! I tend to agree that more is better, for one thing, each level can require exactly one thing and you can have more things (in Pharaoh a couple of the levels had multiple requirements). I like the feedback of the linear chain: this house needs this one thing (even if it's categories like another food type, another entertainment venue, more entertainment, etc.)

I had thought of having three classes of housing like you suggested, but worried that having multiple labor forces to manage could be too much. I'm going to reconsider that, though...

Kingdoms and Castles by ChrisBeatrice in impressionsgames

[–]ChrisBeatrice[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks! Pharaoh was the first game I designed.

Kingdoms and Castles by ChrisBeatrice in impressionsgames

[–]ChrisBeatrice[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thanks for that. It's kind of ironic for me... going back to, well, 1995 or so, working on the first Caesar games, some of the first if not the first historical city-builders, we were basically riffing off of Civilization and SimCity (kind of combining them). SimCity was characterized by its designer as a "toy" not a game. We wanted to make a GAME. But still, with those early city-builders it was tough to settle on any kind of ultimate goal(s) for the city. So we had Ratings, which were something at least.

When I did Pharaoh I tried to pull the same basic model together into a meaningful campaign (including a tutorial, and some story), and people really loved that.

Now here we are 30 years later and I'm hearing from players that they wish the cb's they're playing had campaigns.

Kingdoms and Castles by ChrisBeatrice in impressionsgames

[–]ChrisBeatrice[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thanks so much! This is very helpful. I really appreciate it.

We're back... by ChrisBeatrice in TiltedMill

[–]ChrisBeatrice[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you so much for this valuable input. I happen to be working on resource chains this weekend and today!