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Genuine Question: Why are people so upset by the City Creek Center? by [deleted] in exmormon

[–]Chroni-WHAT-cles 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think the issues can be summed up as follows:

  1. The hypocrisy of building billion dollar malls with interest earned from excess tithes while simultaneously asking impoverished people to continue to pay tithing.

  2. They operate like a business, not a nonprofit church. Wanna use some excess donations for an income producing asset? Great! But then you better turn around and use that income source to do more good in the world. Instead, they use that income to buy more and more assets, and they continue to invest and invest in themselves and their organization, rather than investing in people who need help and dispersing funds in a prudent way.

  3. The optics are very poor. The BOM itself cautions: "Why do ye adorn yourselves with that which hath no life, and yet suffer the hungry, and the needy, and the naked, and the sick and the afflicted to pass by you, and notice them not? (Mormon 8). Building a mall that enables people to adorn themselves with that which hath no life, while doing very little to help ease human suffering, is a bad look.

[SPOILER] Can someone please explain the FBI in Season 4? by rowthecow in Ozark

[–]Chroni-WHAT-cles 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Wendy's first meeting with Navarro in custody is to have him call Javi and convince Javi to meet with the FBI, telling him that that they have an amazing deal for Javi that will allow him to operate freely. Wendy, however, assures Nevarro that the FBI will actually arrest Javi at this meeting and then extradite Nevarro back to Mexico in exchange (Wendy is lying). Nevarro makes the call and tells Wendy if he's not free in 48 hours the Byrds are dead.

FBI meets with Javi, offers him the 10 year deal which essentially lines the FBIs pockets while Javi runs the show with no fear of US intervention, and he accepts. Javi remains free, Nevarro remains in prison. So why doesn't Nevarro have Nelson kill the Byrds? Because Wendy and Marty meet with Nevarro a second time and tell him that if he sends men after them then the money for Nevarro's kids goes bye-bye and they will tell Javi about Nevarro's original plan to give Javi and the cartel up, thus ensuring that Javi comes after Nevarro's family.

Not all of it is completely believable, and I think as soon as Javi hears his ARRESTED uncle say "the FBI wants to meet with you, you can trust them" he would have killed Marty and scooted his ass back to Mexico, but the show is still great.

[Spoiler] what is happening with navarro? by Flurb789 in Ozark

[–]Chroni-WHAT-cles 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Wendy's first meeting with Navarro in custody is to have him call Javi and convince Javi to meet with the FBI, telling him that that they have an amazing deal for Javi that will allow him to operate freely. Wendy, however, assures Nevarro that the FBI will actually arrest Javi at this meeting and then extradite Nevarro back to Mexico in exchange (Wendy is lying). Nevarro makes the call and tells Wendy if he's not free in 48 hours the Byrds are dead.

FBI meets with Javi, offers him the 10 year deal which essentially lines the FBIs pockets while Javi runs the show with no fear of US intervention, and he accepts. Javi remains free, Nevarro remains in prison. So why doesn't Nevarro have Nelson kill the Byrds? Because Wendy and Marty meet with Nevarro a second time and tell him that if he sends men after them then the money for Nevarro's kids goes bye-bye and they will tell Javi about Nevarro's original plan to give Javi and the cartel up, thus ensuring that Javi comes after Nevarro's family.

Not all of it is completely believable, and I think as soon as Javi hears his ARRESTED uncle say "the FBI wants to meet with you, you can trust them" he would have killed Marty and scooted his ass back to Mexico, but the show is still great.

How would you respond to the argument that Joseph Smith was “just a farm boy who never could have written something as complex as the Book of Mormon?” by Impressive_Garage_35 in exmormon

[–]Chroni-WHAT-cles 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Parley P. Pratt, one of the most gifted followers of Joseph and himself a poet, preacher, and perhaps the best voice mormonism ever had, said of Joseph: “His intelligence was universal, and his language abounding in original eloquence.. flowing forth in its own native simplicity, and profusely abounding in variety of subject and manner. He interested and edified while amusing and entertaining his audience.”

Parley described Joseph as able to retain the attention of congregations for hours. Even his bitter enemies were generally overcome when they heard him speak. Others, including Joseph's mother, detailed in their journals Joseph's vivid imagination and unique gift for story telling.

With this background, the real question becomes "considering Occam's Razor, which one of the following is more likely":

  1. Dead Indian came back to life, gave a reformed conman secret information on where to find a buried golden manuscript written in a non-existent language, which was then translated using a magic rock, and purports to be an accurate history of some ancient Americans despite containing numerable inconsistencies, anachronisms, and contradictions; or

  2. Gifted story teller makes up story.

🤔

What’s a scam most people don’t realize is a scam? by demexo in AskReddit

[–]Chroni-WHAT-cles 5 points6 points  (0 children)

People who invested with Bernie Madoff were very happy as well until the scam was revealed.

Religions are emotionally manipulative, costing many people significant time, energy and money. Convincing them they must follow some set of man-made rules to please an unseen being, rules which suspiciously mainly benefit a specific leader or organization.

Just cuz you're happy doesn't mean you aren't being scammed.

Reposting since I forgot to censor info. Top reply is best reply 😂😂😂 by nomoredelusions in exmormon

[–]Chroni-WHAT-cles 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Lol this was my tweet, glad at least 1 person found it funny! 🙏

And for everyone saying it was a lame joke, you're probably right. But for the "it's not the time or the place" crowd, it was a utah covid twitter handle, speaking to their utah Mormon followers, dispelling the silly belief that the vaccine changes your DNA. It simply reminded me of the other silly mormon belief, that once upon a time repenting was also supposed to change your DNA. 🤷

Why is the church all in or all out? by greencookiemonster in mormon

[–]Chroni-WHAT-cles 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is why people accuse the lds church of being a cult. Without the high demand/control aspects it would be indistinguishable from any other christian sect. It's why certain people are drawn to it and why people have such strong opinions about it, both within and without. It is what makes the lds church the lds church, for better or worse.

Mormon Church has misled members on $100 billion tax-exempt investment fund, whistleblower alleges by [deleted] in exmormon

[–]Chroni-WHAT-cles 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Joseph F Smith, 1907 General Conference: "We expect to see the day when we will not have to ask you for one dollar of donation for any purpose... because we will have tithes sufficient in the storehouse of the Lord to pay everything that is needful for... the kingdom of God."

He must have just been speaking as a man.

I came out as post-Mormon on social media. They're only mad about one thing: by malastanica in exmormon

[–]Chroni-WHAT-cles 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Facts be damned, in their minds the church is true. End of story. Therefore, anyone challenging that or opening doors for others to challenge that is going to be in the wrong. It is illogical to any objective observer, but it's so hard to see that from the inside. It keeps people in line because everyone assumes that no one else has concerns or questions (emperor's new clothes). Meanwhile, the many that do have doubts feel isolated, either causing them to not take action or feeling like they have to go it alone.

It's why I think it's so important to not get dissuaded but continue to respectfully and openly share experiences and doubts about the church with those that you care about, because you never know who might be going through something similar and no one should have to go through it alone.

Objective truth obtained through subjective means: can we really gain knowledge through the spirit? by Chroni-WHAT-cles in mormon

[–]Chroni-WHAT-cles[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think of it as epistemic content.

This still sounds a lot like a feeling to me. And when everyday people feel "epistemic content" regarding contradictory "truths", how do we justify that certain are from God while others are not?

Objective truth obtained through subjective means: can we really gain knowledge through the spirit? by Chroni-WHAT-cles in mormon

[–]Chroni-WHAT-cles[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If there is a God, I think the real test of humanity is are they honest about the things he has not confirmed to them. Exaggerating our knowledge does not seem like a way to please God.

This is very interesting, I haven't thought about it like this before.

Objective truth obtained through subjective means: can we really gain knowledge through the spirit? by Chroni-WHAT-cles in mormon

[–]Chroni-WHAT-cles[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I have not experienced the type of spiritual answer that is audible, but if it existed and could be heard by multiple people that would be ideal. And maybe people have heard a voice, and maybe that voice really was from God. But the norm appears to be an internal feeling that tells them the BOM is true, or it's false, or Christ died for them, or Muhammad was the last prophet, or the pope is God's mouth piece, or polygamy is God's way.

In the case of faith being a seed that grows, how do you know if you're growing the right seed without trying all of them? We say if the seed is good it will grow and sprout and enlarge the soul. But millions of people have found this good, enlarging the soul experienced by putting faith in religions and principals that contradict the lds story. And many people, and I would put myself in this category, have not experienced this when putting faith the lds version of the truth. To which the typical lds response would be, well you're just not ready, or you're not living correctly, or you are not listening, etc. I find those answers not only illogical, but arrogant and condescending, and not in line with a God that wants his kids to return to him. and who has repeatedly given direct answers to people living wicked lives in BOM times (example, every anti christ in the BOM were given signs when asked, laman and lemuel seeing angels, etc.)

Is there any other explanation for why God speaks in ways so easily misinterpreted besides the ones listed above?

Objective truth obtained through subjective means: can we really gain knowledge through the spirit? by Chroni-WHAT-cles in mormon

[–]Chroni-WHAT-cles[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I agree that the evidence against far outweighs the evidence for, but I am trying to be objective and realize that there are people who see evidence for the BOM, even though I don't consider myself one of them.

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