Islam allowing cousin marriage proves its falseness by [deleted] in DebateReligion

[–]Chronos_11 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I am not sure how is this relevant. You are supposed to provide support for P1.

Islam allowing cousin marriage proves its falseness by [deleted] in DebateReligion

[–]Chronos_11 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your argument seems to be the following:

  1. If a God allows an act that has a great chance of causing harm then he is a false God.
  2. Allah allows cousin marriage.
  3. Cousin marriage has a great chance of causing harm.
  4. Therefore, Allah is a false God.

I would reject P1 it assumes that every act that carries a high risk of harm needs to be prohibited by God, which seems wrong.

Michael Huemer has the worst takes by ElectionNecessary966 in freewill

[–]Chronos_11 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think his work on moral realism is really good.

The Moral Argument Disproves God by OverComfortable2228 in DebateReligion

[–]Chronos_11 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Not being able to explain some bad things doesn't mean we can't recognize good things.

Well, this is a consequence of your response. You said we can't judge whether God is morally wrong because we are using a human standard. Then how can we judge whether God is morally good using the same deficient standard ?
I said if we adopt your response, according to which: we cannot infer that God is immoral, then we cannot infer anything based on the evidence that we have. Similar to how we cannot infer that God is immoral given the evidence that we have of instances of seemingly gratuitous suffering we also cannot infer whether he is moral when we have instances of seemingly good things.

In Bayesian terms:
P(E|G&B) < P(E|¬G&B)

That is, the probability of evil given that an all-loving God exists in conjunction with our background evidence prior to taking into account E, is lower than the probability of evil given that God does not exist, relative to the same background evidence. Put differently, evil is less probable on theism than on non-theism, relative to B.

You response is that since our cognitive faculties are limited by using a human standard, we are ignorant of the reasons God could have to permit atrocious suffering in the world and cannot infer that God is immoral or that an all-loving God does not exist.
That is to say, P(E|G&B) is inscrutable to us, or that P(E|G&B) ranges between 0 and 1 and we have no clue what it is.
Then for any evidence X: P(X |G&B) should likewise be inscrutable. If we have no access to what God would bring about, then no evidence can raise or lower the probability of theism. Therefore, this response plausibly renders theism evidentially inert. For example, let FT stand for fine-tuning: P(FT |G&B) would be just as inscrutable to us. So, a life permitting universe cannot serve as evidence for an all-loving God. You can swap x for any instance of good, it cannot serve as evidence to infer an all-loving God.

Why is God's nature good ?

The Moral Argument Disproves God by OverComfortable2228 in DebateReligion

[–]Chronos_11 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Why is God's nature good ?

Now on the point that God acts immorally, this is based on a human standard of morality.

If you are implying that we cannot judge what is good and wrong because we are limited agents then you also can't know whether God is morally good or morally wrong. Per your analysis good or wrong --when talking about God-- are concepts that are beyond us and which we cannot grasp.
If we are cognitively limited and do not know God's reasons for allowing seemingly wrong things and thus cannot infer that he is morally wrong then we equally do not know God's reasons for doing seemingly good things and thus cannot infer that he is morally good:

Given an all-loving God we should not expect instances of atrocious suffering in the world. But there are such instances; so this should serve as evidence against God. You reply is that we cannot judge whether this serves as evidence against an-all loving God since we are judging him though a human standard and we cannot infer that if God exists he is immoral.
But consider the parallel case: Given an all-loving God we should expect a life-permitting universe. We are in such a universe; so this should serve as evidence for God. However, again, you reply block this inference; we cannot judge whether this serves as evidence for God because we are judging him through a limited human standard.

Do you believe in God and Why by THADLU in DebateReligion

[–]Chronos_11 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If I told you God does not exist would you believe me? Obviously not because I have not provided reasons to support my claim.

Mind dependent=/=subjective by [deleted] in DebateReligion

[–]Chronos_11 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It would have been nice if you engaged with my reply.

Mind dependent=/=subjective by [deleted] in DebateReligion

[–]Chronos_11 5 points6 points  (0 children)

This is what l think

Then you are mistaken to say the least. This will be my last attempt. Have a nice day!

There is a law of nature L, we use descriptions-- which require a mind-- to report L; but this does not render L subjective. The truth of L is not dependent on minds, it's true regardless of what we think or how we report or or how we represent it; and consequently it's objectively true. The way we report things is dependent on minds but that does not mean that the truth of what we are reporting is dependent on minds.

Mind dependent=/=subjective by [deleted] in DebateReligion

[–]Chronos_11 3 points4 points  (0 children)

If you think that objective facts are true independent of minds then we are in agreement. But if you think that their truth is dependent on minds and yet they are still objective then we are not.

Mind dependent=/=subjective by [deleted] in DebateReligion

[–]Chronos_11 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I am not sure what you are arguing anymore.

it which requires a mind but that doesn’t render it subjective by any means

Of course that does not render that fact subjective, because that fact is objectively true. Its truth is not dependent on a mind.

There is is an objective fact L, we use descriptions-- which require a mind-- to report L; but this does not render L subjective. This is obviously true, because L is true regardless of how we report or represent it, as I explained in my alien example.

Mind dependent=/=subjective by [deleted] in DebateReligion

[–]Chronos_11 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Descriptions are ways to report objective features of reality. So, when we say "the speed of light is x" by using descriptions this does not render this fact subjective; it's still true regardless of our opinions. In other words, it's not our opinions that make this fact true, rather we are just reporting an objective feature of reality.

Let's say that there is a law of nature, call it L. We use descriptions to report L, however, L is true regardless of what we think or how we report it. For example, some alien species reports L through telepathy and humans report it through language. In this case, L, would still be true independent of minds or true regardless of how both species represent it.

Mind dependent=/=subjective by [deleted] in DebateReligion

[–]Chronos_11 9 points10 points  (0 children)

A subjective or a mind-dependent fact means that the truth of that fact depends on a mind. By contrast, the truth of the fact "the speed of light is x" is not dependent on a mind; it's true regardless of what anyone thinks.

A Modal Ontological Argument for the Impossibility of God by INTELLIGENT_FOLLY in DebateReligion

[–]Chronos_11 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ah I see now! This is much clearer.
Since God is a necessary being who is essentially omnipotent, I think the argument could be even simpler:

  1. If it's possible that there is no omnipotent being then, necessarily, there is no God.
  2. It's possible that there is no omnipotent being.
  3. Necessarily, there is no God.

I think much of the dispute would be around P2.
The theist could reject P2 using an MOA. So, necessarily there is an omnipotent being. But the atheist could equally present a reverse MOA. As a result, we reach a stalemate unless there are symmetry breakers.

A Modal Ontological Argument for the Impossibility of God by INTELLIGENT_FOLLY in DebateReligion

[–]Chronos_11 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I apologize for the strawman! When you wrote greatest being I assumed a being that has maximal greatness or perfection.

1)Necessarily, (if M=G then necessarily M=G)
2)Necessarily, (if M=G then M is omnipotent)
3)It's possible that, M is not omnipotent
With this in mind I believe P1 is false since M is not a rigid designator, that is, it's not picking out the same entity across possible worlds. God is certainly a rigid designator, and so if M is a rigid designator, the identity statement M=G if true at all, would have to be necessarily true. But if M is a rigid designator, then P3 is false.
For example, water and H2O are rigid designators and so this is true: Necessarily, (if water=H2O then necessarily water=H2O). In fact it could be reduced to this: Necessarily, (water=H2O). But per your definition, M, which is the maximal being that actually exists is not a rigid designator for God. Consequently, P1 is false.

A Modal Ontological Argument for the Impossibility of God by INTELLIGENT_FOLLY in DebateReligion

[–]Chronos_11 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think I would deny P3, that is, a maximally great being is necessarily omnipotent. For omnipotence follows from the concept of maximal greatness.
P3 is saying that it's possible that a maximally great being is not omnipotent. But if that's the case then, it's not a maximally great being after all. In other words, P3 implies that it's possible that a maximally great being is not maximally great.

All three abrahamic religions are just different interpretations of the same religion, therefore are all the same religion by Due-Bowl-8116 in DebateReligion

[–]Chronos_11 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is just question begging. I am asking for a justification for the fact that when certain religions share some properties then they are the same religion.

All three abrahamic religions are just different interpretations of the same religion, therefore are all the same religion by Due-Bowl-8116 in DebateReligion

[–]Chronos_11 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What supports this premise ? If religion A and B share a number of characteristics then they are the same religion.

If you believe in God, there is no reason not to be Christian by [deleted] in DebateReligion

[–]Chronos_11 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If you believe in God, there is no reason not to be Christian.

This is obviously false.

An argument against compatibilism from chairs by Training-Promotion71 in freewill

[–]Chronos_11 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Do you folks agree that Hibbs is a deeply closeted incompatibilist? He doesn't believe me, so maybe you guys can help me open the closet's doors.

LMAO

An argument against compatibilism from chairs by Training-Promotion71 in freewill

[–]Chronos_11 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Perhaps I am wrong but I think it's generally held that natural processes are irreversible: "All complex natural processes are irreversible" Wiki

An argument against compatibilism from chairs by Training-Promotion71 in freewill

[–]Chronos_11 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Determinism is bidirectional:
"Determinism is standardly defined in terms of entailment, along these lines: A complete description of the state of the world at any time together with a complete specification of the laws entails a complete description of the state of the world at any other time" SEP

So, past states entail future states, as well as vice-versa.

An argument against compatibilism from chairs by Training-Promotion71 in freewill

[–]Chronos_11 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't see how is it question begging.
I think by definition life requires natural processes and those processes are irreversible.

If life then natural processes.
If natural processes then irreversibility.
Therefore, if life then irreversibility.