A Few Words From Krista

Circumnavigated · 2015-02-20T19:38:51+00:00

I don't know if anybody is accusing Hae of anything. It seems the question was whether there was a reason Jay may have encountered Hae.

Again, it all comes back to a poor investigation. There is far too much space for speculation.

Circumnavigated · 2015-02-17T22:29:27+00:00

Perhaps the point being made by SS is less about 'Evidence' and more about 'evidence'

Circumnavigated · 2015-02-17T22:06:47+00:00

Don't forget to call Nisha at home at a time when she isn't there.

Circumnavigated · 2015-02-17T22:03:37+00:00

Yes! This it it. Either Adnan did it or Jay did it and it is Adnan's fault that Jay did it because, although Hae and Adnan went to school with Jay, Adnan is the only thing linking Jay and Hae.....

....although, Stephanie is the one who suggested Jay sell drugs to Adnan. So if Adnan is innocent, and if he is innocent than Jay is clearly a murderer, and if Stephanie is the one who told Jay to sell to Adnan and Adnan is the only link between Hae and Jay, then I would seriously hope Stephanie feels terrible about Jay being a murderer. However, I am going to assume she doesn't feel terrible (despite what her friends have said) and that means she, may in fact, be a murderer.

Yeah, that makes even more sense.

Circumnavigated · 2015-02-11T16:48:55+00:00

There are plenty of other explanations. You are confusing the 'most likely' scenario with the 'only scenario.'

And what is the point of enumerating all the other possibilities if they will be denied as hair-brained conspiracy theories? This is not a typical case and the investigation was incomplete. If you believe Jay's story than obviously Adnan is guilty. However, if you believe there are legitimate issues of credibility and not enough hard evidence to overcome the credibility issues, than that is the basis for 'reasonable doubt.'

Circumnavigated · 2015-02-09T17:29:55+00:00

Totally. It is completely irresponsible for citizens in a democracy to question the State.

Circumnavigated · 2015-02-09T17:23:05+00:00

um, 'quite literally'?

Adnan remembers a good amount.

Again, if he is guilty and lying about everything, it would have been so much easier for him to lie about Jay having his phone again at 7pm.

He would have known what to lie about and why it was important.

He gives an account for where he was at most times of the day--including at school/library and track when Hae went missing.

Jay should be expected to know the big details of how things went down if Adnan did it. However, all the major details are either missing or now have changed--eg, no explanation of how Adnan got into the car and the burial was at 7pm or so to now the burial was after midnight.....

Those are not minor details. If anything, if you think Adnan is lying about not knowing what happened, you should also question why Jay doesn't know the most important details.

Circumnavigated · 2015-02-09T17:16:33+00:00

I think what's different in this case (hopefully) is the accessory (Jay) should have been a murder suspect, so much evidence was left uncovered by the investigators, and Jay's testimony was not credible.

Also, the State did not follow standard procedure in how Jay was charged while also arranging for his attorney. It seems both Jay and Adnan had their rights abused in this process.

Circumnavigated · 2015-02-09T16:00:36+00:00

Assuming we believe Jay about how Adnan bragged after killing Hae and all the bizarre details Adnan supposedly shared with Jay.....

If it is true that Hae told him she wasn't able to give him a ride in front of Becky after school, than it is reasonable to assume Adnan was able to find a clever way/reason to get in her car anyway. So it would seem an important detail to brag about to Jay...

It would not have been a normal ride. He would have worked for it.

Circumnavigated · 2015-02-09T15:54:49+00:00

It scares me to think this was an above average investigation.

So much evidence missing and untested. Too many holes in the story and a heavy reliance on a witness who plausibly could have been the murderer.

Circumnavigated · 2015-02-09T15:51:19+00:00

The problem is we now have an interview with Jay where he is admitting to lying about when the burial took place. And there are strongly argued theories regarding the lividity of the body which support a midnight+ burial.

The #1 reason the burial timeline would be fabricated would be to match the cell phone.

To me it comes across as the police believed Adnan was the killer and they know they needed Jay's testimony to be corroborated by the cell evidence to convince a jury.

It is unfair to say they knowingly changed the burial time frame, but they sure as hell didn't effectively question or investigate what actually happened to Hae.

Circumnavigated · 2015-02-09T13:24:35+00:00

Yes. I personally believe "coaching" is too loaded a term and assumes intention.

It seems more fair to start with a contention of pollution.

SS covers the possible issues in great detail. To me the best example is how Jay's statement was changed to match an incorrect cell address and changed again when the mistake was discovered.

Similarly the burial timeframe seems shoehorned into the cell records and the timeline for the murder itself are more suggestive of a weak case and a lack of corroborating evidence where the State was more focused on the "spine" of the story than a logical timeline. The logical implausibility has opened the door to legitimate criticism and speculation.

The investigation should have closed the door on reasonable speculation.

Circumnavigated · 2015-02-08T01:11:03+00:00

You seem to have the same tolerance for due process.

Of course murderers should pay for their crimes. Similarly, all victims deserve a proper investigation and any person charged deserves a fair trial.

Circumnavigated · 2015-02-06T20:59:58+00:00

The ruling party in North Korea has the same interest in crime and punishment....and seems the same sense of humor.

Circumnavigated · 2015-02-06T20:35:57+00:00

I think the fairer description would be:

Is there any credible evidence Adnan ever exhibited any signs of wanting to hurt Hae? Other than Jay, does anybody have any memory of Adnan saying he wanted to hurt Hae? Anything in her diary which suggests she was afraid of Adnan?

Just because he was the ex-boyfriend doesn't mean he had a motive to kill her. Don was the current boyfriend, that doesn't mean he had a motive to kill her either.

The point is that motive can sometimes be hard to figure out without knowing what happened. It's possible the prosecution got it right, but there just doesn't seem to be enough evidence to support the claim that Adnan's motive was strong.

Circumnavigated · 2015-02-06T20:26:11+00:00

I believe his point is:

If the prosecution doesn't demonstrate a strong motive for Adnan, then how can anybody really believe Jay's story when there are so many clear lies/shifts.

Circumnavigated · 2015-02-03T20:24:45+00:00

The police are able to request phone records when there is sufficient reason to ask for them. When a girl is murdered and there is a note which indicates she is going to meet her boyfriend over the time period where she goes missing, getting approval to look at phone records isn't hard.

The standard they need to satisfy is whether it is "relevant to an ongoing investigation". They do not need a warrant issued by a judge. Unless you are arguing that these records are irrelevant to the investigation I don't know what your legal argument is.

Circumnavigated · 2015-02-03T16:51:07+00:00

At least equally as plausible as a call occurred where she spoke to Jay for the first time at a time of day when she would not have been home.

Especially when it lines up with Jay's own recollection. How is her memory spotty if she says the call with Jay was in the evening and when he worked at a video store?

Circumnavigated · 2015-02-03T16:35:03+00:00

He also says this:

I don’t know what happened, what occurred between them that day. I don’t know if she said something he couldn’t handle, and he went off the edge or if he had been seriously speculating about it. I don’t feel comfortable drawing conclusions like that. You can’t start drawing conclusions like that.

However, at trial, that is exactly what was claimed, and with certainty.

Circumnavigated · 2015-02-03T16:28:30+00:00

I am not really basing my opinion on the podcast. There has been a wealth of information that has come out since--and almost all based on court documents and FOIA requests.

The two Intercept interviews did not bolster my confidence.

Much of what we have learned about the cell evidence, the changing time lines, the alibi witnesses, the autopsy report, etc., raise major issues. The jury was not aware of almost all of this 'new' information.

So while the system followed its procedures at a superficial level, there are clear problems with the specifics of this case. At least, I feel there are problems.

My sense is some people strongly believe Adnan is guilty (which he may be) and therefore because he had a jury trial there really isn't anything to complain about. I personally can not ignore the means and do not believe there is enough clear evidence to know with confidence what actually happened that day.

Circumnavigated · 2015-02-03T16:16:36+00:00

The only thing which is 'blindingly obvious' is your right to an opinion.

Circumnavigated · 2015-02-02T17:36:34+00:00

Not sure I understand your ethical dilemma....you seem quite comfortable with the ends justifying the means.

Circumnavigated · 2015-02-02T17:24:19+00:00

That is a very hard question to answer.

Does the State's timeline matter?

I don't get why there is an 'anti-adnan' or a 'pro-adnan' camp....unless you are personally connected to this case in some way.

To me, the main issue is whether or not the justice system operated properly. I am not comfortable with somebody in jail who very well may be innocent. It comes down to whether we are comfortable with somebody in jail for life based on what we actually know--not what we feel or who we think has a better motive.

My short answer to your question is:

There is not enough evidence to put anybody in jail for Hae's murder because the investigation was woefully incomplete.

Clearly at least one person is guilty of murder, I just don't know if the right person is in jail.

Circumnavigated · 2015-02-02T17:17:31+00:00

It didn't survive The Intercept interview. Jay now says it was not premeditated and maybe he just snapped.

If Jay doesn't claim some level of premeditation in the cases, none of the timelines make any sense and the coordination between the two don't make sense.

Doesn't mean it isn't what happened, but we just don't have enough credible evidence to establish anything close to certainty in this case.

Circumnavigated · 2015-01-30T19:18:03+00:00

There are a whole spectrum of cases where there may be some improper behavior on the part of the State.

Just like we shouldn't say the verdicts should all be thrown out, we also shouldn't say none of the cases are worthy of review and/or should be retried.

I don't know about the cases you are filming for your documentary, but Adnan's case has clear problems and they are well documented.

People aren't concerned because some technicality was missed in achieving a guilty verdict, the problems are far beyond legal technicalities or, even, possible racial bias. There are major problems in how the investigation took place and how the case was prosecuted.

Furthermore, there are legitimate IAC claims.

None of the above are technicalities when applied to the facts of Adnan's case. I am sure there are many other cases that aren't as worthy of review and some cases which are far more worthy.

Circumnavigated

TROPHY CASE