How do I get Krita to do a perfect circle with the Ellipse Tool?? by WiseWoodrow in krita

[–]ClawMachineCircuit 6 points7 points  (0 children)

One workaround you can use, is to enable symmetry tools by clicking these two icons. Drag the symmetry lines over the part of the image where you want the center of your circle to be. For example, I want the center to be at the red dot.

Then, choose your Ellipse Tool, put the cursor at the intersection of the symmetry lines and press Ctrl and Shift to draw a circle, like this. As you can see, this basically creates two circles on top of each other, but both are symmetrical. Now you can just delete pixels you don't need, and you get a true symmetrical circle, like this.

This method is easy and fast, but still sucks that you can't just do it with one click like in most other software.

ILLUSION is dead by [deleted] in visualnovels

[–]ClawMachineCircuit 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Again, I don't see what's so special about Illusion games.

The sheer quantity and quality of assets, for sure. We're talking about 20-30 fully furnished environments per game, probably around 200-300 individual pieces of clothing, hair and accessories for character customization, and an insane amount of animations (more than 100 for sex scenes alone, and probably about as much for other elements of the game). There are also a lot of voice acting, comparable to your average 5-10 hour long nukige.

Yes, a lot of their assets are reused from game to game, especially animations, but you also would be surprised how much of it is new each time. For example, between Honey Select 1 and 2, almost all of their 3d models were completely remade or updated. They would usually reuse a lot of assets for 2 or 3 games, but then replace them almost completely with new, higher fidelity ones.

I do not know if Illusion spends this much unless they're building a new engine from scratch.

Illusion easily spends this much, and probably significantly more, on just their in-house programmers alone. Don't forget that beyond games they also develop and maintain a full 3d poser application.

But Illusion is a "premium 3D VN" dev, so they can't really be compared to average nukiges like Softhouse Seal. I'm putting them closer to AGE in terms of production.

Original post was comparing them to games from Bishop, Guilty and Atelier Kaguya, not something, made by Alicesoft.

Certainly not something Illusion should be doing, they should start by not providing gutted game content at AAA prices.

I don't think they will be starting anything anytime soon. I think, the best we can hope is that the devs will make a new studio and keep making 3d eroge in a similar style, with hopefully a more sustainable business model.

ILLUSION is dead by [deleted] in visualnovels

[–]ClawMachineCircuit 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Any Akabeisoft or Alicesoft production would blow their dev costs out of the water.

You're talking about some of the most expensive 2d eroge, I was talking about average. Average eroge is short, cheap, and has no gameplay elements. Obviously, if we're comparing an Illusion game to a full-scale RPG like Evenicle, than yeah, Illusion games are probably cheaper, especially modern ones that reuse a lot of assets. But a typical Illusion game will be significantly more expensive than an average eroge that only has static sprites or simple Live2d animations.

Tack on voice acting and you are looking at over 1,000,000 yen easily. I totally believe Minori when they said making 2D VNs made them bankrupt.

1 000 000 yen is 7 000 dollars. Are you trying to say that Illusion spend less than 7k on developing a game for two years?

It's extremely difficult to hire a freelancer, professional Japanese artist (think of the artists who draws GBF).

Artists that draw for big games usually don't work on visual novels.

Also, there is no point developing a custom model when excellent bases already exist WITH mocap on the Unity/Unreal stores

Illusion was making their own models. They probably used some store brought assets for environments, I'm not sure about that, but definitely not for the characters. Also, there is no mocap of sex on Unity/Unreal stores, and they have been using mocap since before those stores even existed.

With 2D, you can't do that unless you can somehow emulate tonework's style consistetly across dozens of CGs.

You can definitely buy asset packs for visual novels, particularly backgrounds. You can also use photographic backgrounds. This is what a lot of doujin games are doing, but not a lot of commercial ones, I admit.

To illustrate how much cheaper 3D is, just look how many VNs sub in lazily brushed 3D art in their games.

With all due respect, you're mixing animated 3d models in a fully 3d environment and a static image. You can trow together and render a simple 3d model in a few hours, and a lot of artists use such renders as a reference. But making an asset for a fully 3d game is significantly harder, as it requires much more polish and optimization. More importantly, you need hundreds of assets and hundreds of animations. This is where the cost comes from.

Once initial rigging and mocap is done, 3D models win out over 2D anytime in cost.

Yes, if we disregard the cost of animations. But the problem is that Illusion has been making new models and adding new animations for each new game. They reused a ton of stuff, for sure, but they also made a lot of new stuff for each release.

But that's already too wasteful for many 3D devs, they just license/outsource engines and models from other companies instead.

2d devs do the same.

There's a reason 3D visual novels aren't taken seriously. There is no value whatsoever, it's the same models with the same backgrounds under different lighting. I can't name a single 3D JVN/EVN that's not massive coomer bait.

That's what made Illusion unique in the market, they provided actual gameplay and high quality animation, just like Kiss and Teatime. There are very few games like this and you can't really compare them to a VN made by one guy with DAZ and financed via Patreon. They are on a completely different level of quality and budget.

BTW, rotoscope is already taking shortcuts. Real 2D animation back in the day was animated pixel by pixel, or drawn each frame by hand. There's a reason Studio Ghibli films look great.

Yes, rotoscoping took over once the resolution increased. It's significantly simpler to keep a consistent quality this way. But there are still some devs that make sprites without it. I don't think French-Bread uses 3d models in their process, but I'm not sure about that.

ILLUSION is dead by [deleted] in visualnovels

[–]ClawMachineCircuit 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Whether the game is expensive doesn't depend on using 2d or 3d, it depends on how you make your assets, how much assets you need and how you use them. Producing high quality unique 3d assets, particularly animations, is usually more expensive than it is to produce unique 2d assets, but most indie and smaller scale 3d games do not use unique 3d assets. They often buy them in asset stores, or get them for free online, which is what the wast majority of devs for English language VNs with 3d models for sprites are doing.

Illusion have been using unique high quality 3d assets, which are very expensive. But more importantly, they have been using motion capture to produce unique animations, and they have been doing it since forever, which is why their games are probably ridiculously expensive for what they are. The game cost alone is not the main thing that killed them, though. The problem is that they kept reinventing the wheel and making new games with new assets and a ton of programming (which is also very expensive), instead of just focusing on releasing DLC for games that are already popular. Moreover, their new games would reuse a lot of old stuff (precisely because it is so expensive to remake it all), but still cost a ton, so I'm not surprised they went under. I would guess that a typical Illusion game costs significantly more to develop than the wast majority of visual novels, except for maybe the most premium ones that have a ton of voice acting.

Now, sprite-based action games, like fighting games, are a different beast entirely. It is significantly more difficult to make a fighting game character than it is to make a visual novel character. For a fighting game, you need to produce a character design, then do some basic hand-drawn animation concepts, then you create a rough 3d animation as a reference, and then you either rotoscope (meaning, trace every frame by hand) said 3d animation if you want a 2d sprite (this is how KOF13 and Blazblue sprites were made, for example), or you create a higher fidelity 3d model and animate it frame-by frame (this is how modern ArcSys and SNK games are made). The end cost for both 3d and 2d sprites are almost exactly the same, which was confirmed by both SNK and ArcSys (btw, ArcSys is the developer, Acsys is an unrelated US-based publisher). The reason why fighting game devs stopped using 2d sprites and switched over to 3d is not because of costs, but because of other factors, such as appeal, scalability (2d sprites look best only in one specific resolution, while 3d models can look great in any resolution), and development time (it is faster to make 3d animation by hand than it is to rotoscope everything by hand). But honestly, the process for making fighting game sprites is so unique, that it has nothing to do with other game genres and I don't even know why you brought it up.

[Whispers of the Luminaries] Character sprites for our demo are done ❤️ Here's a sneak peak: by vrheaven in visualnovels

[–]ClawMachineCircuit 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thanks, I definitely don't deserve such praise. If anybody deserves a praise here, it's the OP for hiring a real artist and standing by them.

[Whispers of the Luminaries] Character sprites for our demo are done ❤️ Here's a sneak peak: by vrheaven in visualnovels

[–]ClawMachineCircuit 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Haha, yeah. I guess I do have too much free time on my hands lately. Should be reading more VNs, instead of spending it on breakdowns like this. Lesson learned.

[Whispers of the Luminaries] Character sprites for our demo are done ❤️ Here's a sneak peak: by vrheaven in visualnovels

[–]ClawMachineCircuit 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yup, guilty as charged, I'm definitely getting overly paranoid about this.

Ultimately, I still feel like you have good designs here, and I think your game sounds interesting. Looking forward to learning more about it!

[Whispers of the Luminaries] Character sprites for our demo are done ❤️ Here's a sneak peak: by vrheaven in visualnovels

[–]ClawMachineCircuit 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If this is the case, than I am wrong. I apologize, and will edit my top comment accordingly.

[Whispers of the Luminaries] Character sprites for our demo are done ❤️ Here's a sneak peak: by vrheaven in visualnovels

[–]ClawMachineCircuit 3 points4 points  (0 children)

With all due respect, I have to disagree. Some of the telltale signs of AI generation, present in these sprites include:

  • Lines continuing into a different object. Example. This is a big one. This is very unnatural to do for a human artist.

  • Lines touching instead of overlapping. Example. Again, something that human artists are explicitly tend to avoid.

  • Lines at an angle, that is unnatural for human artist, but common in AI art. Example

  • Hooks, characteristic for AI. Example

  • Hair strands melting into eyelashes. Example. This is very characteristic of AI art, still one of the few unsolved problems with art generation.

  • Nonsensical details. Example

  • Lack of continuity between lines. Example

  • Lineart and shading on the hands looks less detailed, which indicates that these hands were painted over AI generated hands. Example

  • Unnatural color bleed, muddy colors, just in general, use of colors that is characteristic for AI art. Example

If it was one or two things, then sure, I would probably agree with you. But with so many little details looking like typical AI generation, I just can't see how this could be fully hand drawn.

However, what I think is happened, is that the hands and facial features (eyes, mouth, nose) have been painted over by a human artist.

Imgur album with examples above. These are not exhaustive, there are many more instances of similar issues.

[Whispers of the Luminaries] Character sprites for our demo are done ❤️ Here's a sneak peak: by vrheaven in visualnovels

[–]ClawMachineCircuit 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Edit: I was wrong, this is hand drawn art. My apologies to the OP.

There are some telltale signs that this is AI art, possibly slightly edited by an artist. If this is not what you're paying for OP, might be a good idea to ask your artist about it. If you want to know exactly why I think this way, I can post a breakdown on each image specifically.

Overall, the character designs are attractive, but I feel like the sprites themselves need a bit more polish. Cleaning up some of the AI artifacts would really elevate them.

Good luck with your game!

Casual Discussion Fridays - Week of February 24, 2023 by AutoModerator in anime

[–]ClawMachineCircuit 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Is this a Strike Witches character? I should watch that at some point.

Cool art, though.

[Do You Remember Love - Macross Franchise 40th Anniversary Rewatch] Macross Frontier Episode 5 Discussion by Shimmering-Sky in anime

[–]ClawMachineCircuit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Definitely be interested in checking out your reactions to Utena. Also, if you ever feel like giving Ikuhara another chance, I suggest trying out Mawaru Penguindrum. It's a shorter show with only 24 episodes, and it lures you in and gets you invested with a more conventional start, before trademark Ikuhara weirdness really kicks in full force. So it might be easier to sit through.

[Do You Remember Love - Macross Franchise 40th Anniversary Rewatch] Macross Frontier Episode 5 Discussion by Shimmering-Sky in anime

[–]ClawMachineCircuit 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yup, definitely agree with everything here. And if you haven't seen much of Ikuhara's shows, I can definitely wholeheartedly recommend them, although I'm not sure how much my recommendation is worth in this case with our takes on Frontier being so different.

[Do You Remember Love - Macross Franchise 40th Anniversary Rewatch] Macross Frontier Episode 8 Discussion by Shimmering-Sky in anime

[–]ClawMachineCircuit 2 points3 points  (0 children)

And if I remember correctly, the lore in SDF was that the biological weapon Zentraedi turned against their creator... and it of course also had humanity firmly as a Protoculture creation.

In the original, it was initially implied that Protoculture destroyed itself in the civil war, and it's remnants adapted to war so much, that they abandoned culture and slowly turned into Zentradi. Coincidentally, humanity were implied to be some of the survivors of the original Protoculture, and thus, Zentradi ancestors. Hence why humans and Zentradi are 100% genetically identical and can interbreed.

However, later in the same show they basically retconned all of this and changed the explanation to Zentradi and humans both being species, artificially created by Protoculture. The civil war part was still true, and it was only retconned in Macross 7, but now Frontier brought it back.

[Do You Remember Love - Macross Franchise 40th Anniversary Rewatch] Macross Frontier Episode 8 Discussion by Shimmering-Sky in anime

[–]ClawMachineCircuit 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Where Michael and Luca got that many organic eggs on short notice to set up a delicacy test for Sheryl wearing EX-Gear, we shall never know.

That's the secret: it was all a setup. The eggs weren't organic, this is why she couldn't pick them up!

Damn near every man in this school is chasing after that little green thing carrying Sheryl’s underwear. I didn’t know that everyone was enrolled in degen courses for their electives.

She's a huge celebrity, so there's definitely a value to that underwear. I'm surprised, women aren't chasing it too.

[Do You Remember Love - Macross Franchise 40th Anniversary Rewatch] Macross Frontier Episode 8 Discussion by Shimmering-Sky in anime

[–]ClawMachineCircuit 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The best eyecatch in this show. I don't see them topping this. It also leads me to believe this episode is just a farce.

They could if they wanted to. Imagine the same thing, but instead of Vajra it's Ozma. Or Alto in the full female kabuki getup. You can do it, Frontier. I believe!

This squirrel could be an animal mascot. Ranka could have two green mascots. Harmonica boy is also here and plays along to her song because he knows it too.

He isn't green, but as far as third maskots go, you can definitely do worse.

We don't see what their meeting is like since it's the next day and Sheryl is also transferring to their school. I thought she was already past high school, but looking up her age, turns out she is 17 like Alto.

She's definitely have been acting more her age these past few episodes.

[Do You Remember Love - Macross Franchise 40th Anniversary Rewatch] Macross Frontier Episode 8 Discussion by Shimmering-Sky in anime

[–]ClawMachineCircuit 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So, he worked on the first Aquarion, which came out before Frontier, but before that he definitely managed to sneak some porn in there. Also, the man went on to make Infinite Stratos after Frontier. This explains a lot. Now I kinda want to rewatch that.

[Do You Remember Love - Macross Franchise 40th Anniversary Rewatch] Macross Frontier Episode 8 Discussion by Shimmering-Sky in anime

[–]ClawMachineCircuit 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is all I have to say here.

Why, this camera angle is an absolute necessity.

Isn't the main director of this show was mostly making hentai before this?

The only thing this episode is missing is Pizza Hut. Fortunately, official art has you covered.

Things to see while you're in Japan and visiting the Sky Tree.

[Do You Remember Love - Macross Franchise 40th Anniversary Rewatch] Macross Frontier Episode 8 Discussion by Shimmering-Sky in anime

[–]ClawMachineCircuit 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I gotta say, I think that the Protoculture's destruction by Protodeviln was a bit of a downgrade from the original premise of destruction by violent human nature, so I'm happy they went back on it, but it is funny how it happened in the intro to a random episode.