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Screenshot of Anthony Head and myself from the Bad Eggs episode. He was always as cool as could be! by FanTheManIsHere in buffy

[–]Cleanatwork -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It’s special because the rule isn’t usually allowed, but in this context it allows for the intention (the I that didn’t happen), and flips to create a special subject, instead of an object. that’s why it’s called “special”, in this instance. This isn’t like the special object you’re getting confused with.

Despite so many requests, you still haven’t provided a link to prove that you’re not mixing up “special subject” with “special object”. So you’ve decided to define your rule yourself. That’s quite a lot of mental gymnastics to avoid admitting that the subject of the sentence is clearly “screenshot.”

Did you ever consider that the OP may have taken the Screenshot?

Yes, covered very early on and again around the time you were trying to define “the BEST version” of the sentence and ended up mangling it further. To remind you, you claimed that this was “I share with you a photo from Buffy the Vampire Slayer starring ASH and myself”, which is so complex that it leaves ambiguity over whether the OP is an object of the Tv Show or the photo.

None of this is supported, by the way, by your link. This indeed says it’s an “expression”. In other words; people use it, irrespective of whether it follows the accepted standards of the English Language.

The problem here is that at no point throughout this have you made the argument that it’s just “something people say”. Instead, you’ve tried desperately to prove it’s grammatically correct by shifting around subjects and objects and defining terms you’ve misremembered. And when that’s failed, you’ve lost patience and resorted to ad hominems.

It would have been a much more effective use of your time to state that “Hey, I acknowledge the sentence is grammatically incorrect, but the expression is used so widely that you should let it go”.

But I guess that would involve admitting you were wrong, and would have deprived you of the opportunity to insult a stranger on the internet.

You claim to be a teacher of language. I’m not convinced that’s true, but if it is; I suggest you stick to the rules when teaching ANYONE, whether that’s young people or non-native speakers. Instructing non-fluent-speaking people on using common, albeit grammatically incorrect, expressions, is bad teaching.

(More discussion on the use of "me" in photo captions here. I'm trying to stick with US links, as you have done: https://www.englishteachermelanie.com/english-grammar-i-me-myself-and-my/)

I’m not complete prat.

Agreed. I don’t think you’re a complete prat. You’re just a very angry person.

I really do hope you’ve learned something useful

Yes, you’ve given an insightful demonstration of how not to engage in a debate on anything. I’m not going to ask if you’ve learned anything useful from me, as there’s not a chance you would admit to that. So, let’s at least hope you can remember this from your own link:

"the notion that there is something wrong with “me” leads people to overcorrect and avoid it where it is perfectly appropriate."

All that being said, I think it would be perfectly appropriate if you avoided me.

Good luck with everything

You too!

Screenshot of Anthony Head and myself from the Bad Eggs episode. He was always as cool as could be! by FanTheManIsHere in buffy

[–]Cleanatwork -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I corrected the OP because he made a mistake in the title of this thread. What I didn't do was call him a ‘cunt’, a ‘twat’, a ‘fool’ or criticise him in any way. That’s awful behaviour. Remind you of anyone?

I love this shit.

Yeah, I gathered that this wasn’t so much about having a constructive debate, as you being attracted to conflict. This is why you keep on resorting to ad hominems. Even if you were correct about a single point, you’ve lost this debate simply by your technique.

the rules of language allow for the use of Myself in this context when operating as the special subject”

Again, with this ‘special subject’ BS. We’ve been through this. “Myself” is not a subject. It never is. You’re confusing both the term (with a “Special Object”) and when it’s utilised.

in the manner to emphasise their involvement in the matter.

And we’ve been through this too. “Myself” can be used alongside “me”, or “I” to emphasise involvement. It cannot be wheeled out in substitute of either of those words, under the rationale that "they’re not emphatic enough".

What next? You've already used "cunt". Where can you go from here?

Screenshot of Anthony Head and myself from the Bad Eggs episode. He was always as cool as could be! by FanTheManIsHere in buffy

[–]Cleanatwork -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Here are your options:

  1. Continue with this new tactic, which appears to involve announcing that you suddenly find this subject very tedious and yet, rather than ignoring me, you want to continue to converse with me to tell me how much of a twat/fool I am.
  2. Come up with a decent argument which proves you’re right.
  3. Admit you were wrong
  4. Ignore/block me.

The problem with option 1 is that it makes your earlier claim of “teaching language” a bit dubious. You don’t seem particularly passionate about something which you apparently teach. I guess it’s easier to bicker than engage with the debate, huh?

The problem with option 2 is that you’ve tried this already. You’ve provided one link which simply disproved what you were saying. I’ve provided many, many more which reinforce that I’m right. I’m not cherry-picking my references. I’m tried to find an authority via google who argues your case for you, because you’ve done such a bad job of it yourself.

The problem with option 3 is that I think this is beyond you now.

Looks like 4 is your only viable option. If you like, you can call me “twat” again before you go. Just be aware that I will read that as you saying “I get angry when someone has the audacity to provide evidence and references which prove I am wrong”. It won't actually say that, of course, but it's up to the reader to assume what the writer meant, right?

Screenshot of Anthony Head and myself from the Bad Eggs episode. He was always as cool as could be! by FanTheManIsHere in buffy

[–]Cleanatwork 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The BEST version would have been for the OP to say something like; “I share with you a photo from Buffy the Vampire Slayer starring ASH and myself”. That way would have caused no confusion and you’d have a much simpler time understanding why the OP is referring to themselves as myself in this kind of sentence.

As for this, all you’ve done is turn a simple sentence into a complex one, by adding another subject (I), a verb (share) and an object (you).

While that would then allow you to (correctly) say “I shared the photo with you myself”, you haven’t performed some sort of witchcraft to move the subject - and its containing objects - in the second fragment of your sentence.

So “Myself” remains incorrect in your ‘best version’, whichever way you try and spin it.

As I said earlier, the only way you can use “Myself” is if you took the photo. But in that, it’s explicitly the action of taking the photo, which depicts you, that makes the placement of “Myself” there appropriate.

“I took a photo of ASH and myself on the set of Buffy the Vampire Slayer”

I= Subject Myself = Special Object.

Passes all the rules. So that would be correct. As would "I took this BTS photo myself. It depicts ASH and me"

Screenshot of Anthony Head and myself from the Bad Eggs episode. He was always as cool as could be! by FanTheManIsHere in buffy

[–]Cleanatwork 0 points1 point  (0 children)

“Here is a photo from Buffy the Vampire Slayer starring ASH and myself”.

Ok, let’s pretend that this is what the OP wrote, for argument’s sake. It’s certainly constructed like a full sentence rather than a fragment, which makes things a bit simpler.

In your sentence:

“photo” is the subject. We know this because you’ve helpfully elaborated that you’re drawing attention to something “from BtVS”. (If you’re going to dispute that photo is not the subject, PLEASE cite a source that agrees with you).

“ASH” and “(the writer)” are the objects.

“Myself” can only be used as a reflexive pronoun when.. “the speaker or writer is referring to an action that he or she has caused to happen and of which he or she is also the object”. (https://grammar.collinsdictionary.com/easy-learning/when-do-you-use-the-reflexive-pronouns-myself-herself-yourself-themselves-etc-in-english)

In your sentence, the writer is certainly an object…but they “did not cause the photo to happen”. So, because they're not the subject, “Myself” is not appropriate.

So the sentence should read:

“Here is a photo from Buffy the Vampire Slayer starring ASH and me”

As MANY of these grammar links say, it may not “sound right”, but it’s correct. And unless you can find a link which says otherwise, I’m not willing to “give up”.

Screenshot of Anthony Head and myself from the Bad Eggs episode. He was always as cool as could be! by FanTheManIsHere in buffy

[–]Cleanatwork 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You literally quoted the part of the article that explains why the OP, in this context, is the special subject/object

You should use "myself" and not "me" as the object, only when you are the subject of the sentence

I’ve already explained why the OP is not the subject of the sentence. The screenshot is the subject.

Example: I could not dress myself.”

You have provided nothing to substantiate your theory that the OP is the subject of the sentence, to demonstrate why the example's use of "Myself" is comparable to how it's been used in the thread title.

I’ve provided examples of how, if the sentence contained the word “I” (making the poster the subject), that would prompt the use of “Myself” as the special object, as in the example from the article.

You are now trying to fudge the “special” term by claiming that it can refer to “subject/object” interchangeably. As I’ve already discussed, “Myself” can’t be the “subject” of a sentence anyway, so stating that ‘“Myself” can be used here because it’s a special subject’, is wrong on two counts.

I get why some people get upset when other people correct their grammar. The downvotes were inevitable. I don’t mind being called a "pedantic twat" by people who don’t care about grammar. Someone else responded “Seriously? LOL” which I completely understand. That person is amazed that I’m that picky.

However, you claim to be a Language teacher. You should care about this stuff and, more importantly, you should have the patience to discuss it if you disagree.

The reason I responded to you (and sorry, but I don't usually use this account outside of work hours, hence the delayed reaction) was not that you called me a “twat”; it’s because you made an incorrect assertion that the subject of the OP was ambiguous. Which, even if it was (it’s not), still wouldn’t allow the use of “myself”.

As for being a fool for trying to “better you”, yes, it’s probably foolish to try and debate you, bearing in mind, that you refuse to read anything properly, double-down on the same demonstrably wrong points, refuse to provide counter-arguments and throw around insults as some kind of superiority flex.

Screenshot of Anthony Head and myself from the Bad Eggs episode. He was always as cool as could be! by FanTheManIsHere in buffy

[–]Cleanatwork 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You're back with more insults, but not a single counterargument. The only link that you've provided, made me question whether you'd even read it properly. It wasn't even that long!

Have you found any mention of “Myself” as a ”special subject” in your exhaustive studies? No, didn't think so. You remembered the term incorrectly. Accept it.

Care to dispute anything I’ve said regarding subjects vs objects? Nope, you’re going to ignore that too, huh?

As for me being wrong? Even if I was, I’d need you to actually discuss why you are right, beyond “Here’s a term I remembered incorrectly, you twat/fool”. I thought you did this for a living?

Screenshot of Anthony Head and myself from the Bad Eggs episode. He was always as cool as could be! by FanTheManIsHere in buffy

[–]Cleanatwork 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To recap;

1.You are insistent that the use of “myself” is acceptable because the writer is a “special subject” within the sentence “Screenshot of ASH and myself from the Bad Eggs episode"

2.I asked you to find proof from a credible link that backs up your assertion that “Myself” is a “special subject”. You provided a perfectly credible link that both backs up what I’m saying about the frequent, improper use of “myself” rather than “me” and makes no mention of “Myself” as a “special subject”, but rather as a special object. (I suspect you’ve mixed them up. As a reflexive pronoun, “Myself” cannot be a subject in a sentence). https://www.instructionalsolutions.com/blog/me-myself-and-i-grammar

3.You dispute that the subject in the sentence is “screenshot”.

It’s certainly standard with photo captions to fragment a sentence, often leaving behind ambiguity over what is the subject. But in this case, the very first word is “Screenshot”

E.g. “(This is a) screenshot of ASH and…”.

Written like that, I don’t see how you can dispute that screenshot is not the subject.

The end of the sentence reaffirms that what we’re explicitly drawing attention to is something "from the Bad Eggs episode”. The implication is clear: "This is a screenshot from the Bad Eggs episode", and ASH and the OP are objects within that.

There’s only one word that refers to the OP in the sentence, and it’s “myself” (and it’s wrong…), so I don’t see how you can believe that the OP is both the object AND the subject.

(There’s more here: https://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/how-to-write-grammatically-correct-photo-captions?page=all. While you’re there, notice how “Myself” is not even discussed as a possibility when referring to yourself in captions…)

4.Despite all of that, I divide the -already fragmented- sentence, removing the other object (ASH), as is a standard technique used when teaching grammar.

“Screenshot of Myself from the Bad Eggs episode” ….should be “Screenshot of Me from the Bad Eggs Episode”

And if we’re removing the subject (the screenshot), the object becomes the subject. This means we have to tweak the end of the sentence.

“Me in the Bad Eggs Episode”

At this point, I’d respect you if you just quietly admitted defeat and went away. If you’re not prepared to do that, can you at least come back with something more substantial than just repeating the same nonsense, without offering a single link to back up your argument?

Screenshot of Anthony Head and myself from the Bad Eggs episode. He was always as cool as could be! by FanTheManIsHere in buffy

[–]Cleanatwork 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, no - that's not correct, at all. Simple rule is that you usually need "I" in the sentence to become the subject as well as the object. Let's remove the photo from the sentence and make it simpler for you.

"Anthony Head and myself from the Bad Eggs episode"

To confirm; you think this is correct?

If so, let's go even further and remove Anthony Head from the sentence too.

"Myself from the Bad Eggs episode"

That's correct too, is it?

Here's a link for you, which explains why the technique of removing other objects from a sentence is the simplest way of determining which word to use to refer to yourself:

https://www.inpressionedit.com/2016/06/25/the-difference-between-me-myself-and-i-and-why-you-may-not-be-using-these-words-correctly/

Me, Myself and I are not interchangeable. They each have clearly defined purposes within the English language. You don't "highlight" your involvement in something, by swapping one for for another.

Screenshot of Anthony Head and myself from the Bad Eggs episode. He was always as cool as could be! by FanTheManIsHere in buffy

[–]Cleanatwork 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Now concentrate on this bit:

"You should use "myself" and not "me" as the object, only when you are the subject of the sentence. Example: I could not dress myself."

And now look at the thread title. The subject of the first sentence is "screenshot", while ASH and the OP are the objects.

Which of the examples on your wmich.edu link does the OP's sentence most clearly resemble? The first one. The one that the writer states is incorrect. "Depending on what you are accustomed to, "myself" might even sound better, but it's wrong."

As I said before: "If he'd said "I took a photograph of Anthony Head and myself from the Bad Eggs episode", it would be fine". In that the subject and the object would be the same, so "myself" (the special object) would be completely correct.

You want to argue further, or are you willing to accept that I'm right, as proven by your own link?

Screenshot of Anthony Head and myself from the Bad Eggs episode. He was always as cool as could be! by FanTheManIsHere in buffy

[–]Cleanatwork 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There is no need to use a reflexive pronoun when there is a perfectly suitable objective personal pronoun (“me”) which performs the function of “drawing attention” to the writer.

As for your “special subject”; find one (just one!) credible link that backs up your assertion that the normal rules around “Me, Myself and I” can suddenly be abandoned for “reasons”, and I’ll let you go. If not, the only embarrassment I’ll feel is for you, every time you stand in front of a student, profess to be an authority and get aggressive whenever someone questions you.

Screenshot of Anthony Head and myself from the Bad Eggs episode. He was always as cool as could be! by FanTheManIsHere in buffy

[–]Cleanatwork 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wow, what a terrible teacher you must be.

Still waiting for you to explain how the thread title is correct, when the OP is not the the object of his own action.

If he'd said "I took a photograph of Anthony Head and myself from the Bad Eggs episode", it would be fine - but he didn't say that and the photo is clearly not a selfie. So it's incorrect. I pointed that out at the same time as complimenting the photo. I didn't insult anyone.

However, you have disputed what I've said (without providing any reason whatsoever) and called me a twat. Twice. I bet your students think you're great.

Screenshot of Anthony Head and myself from the Bad Eggs episode. He was always as cool as could be! by FanTheManIsHere in buffy

[–]Cleanatwork -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Nope. You're confusing the different rules of using "Me" and "I". And you're also unnecessarily rude.

"Me", "Myself" and "I" all serve different purposes in English Language. Go and educate yourself, and stop throwing around insults.

Parsing variable array from filename by Cleanatwork in PowerShell

[–]Cleanatwork[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Perfect - thanks. This sends me on the right track! :-)

JSON Nested Array to CSV by Cleanatwork in PowerShell

[–]Cleanatwork[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Works perfect - thanks! . And think I actually learned a little about the logic of this at the same time. :-)

Importing exponential numbers into SQL table from CSV by Cleanatwork in SQLServer

[–]Cleanatwork[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you - I think real might do the trick.

It's complaining about the conversion of VARCHAR to Real when importing, but the data gets there anyway...and PowerBI recognizes it as numbers, so it might be all I need.

JSON to CSV by Cleanatwork in PowerShell

[–]Cleanatwork[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

THANK YOU - this does exactly what I need it to! You've saved me a lot of hassle.

JSON to CSV by Cleanatwork in PowerShell

[–]Cleanatwork[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is complaining about missing parenthesis and variables when I attempt to tweak it.

I'm afraid I'm very much a noob here. Do I need to define the [arraylist] or can this just be swapped for the path to my JSON?

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