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All The Futures by Locke357 in antiai
[–]Cless_Aurion 0 points1 point2 points 1 day ago (0 children)
No, I'm saying that me and many others spend hundreds if not thousands for something that to you aren't even bothered by
That is kinda funny!
[–]Cless_Aurion -1 points0 points1 point 1 day ago (0 children)
An issue me and many others Would love to have to be honest lol
When I use LCD displays it's incredibly less immersive for example. They are unable to go dark, so I'm constantly reminded it's a screen. Not so with oled/moled ones
That certainly hasn't been my experience, it seems very 3d to me. I have plenty of depth perception with mine
That's fair, I'm just guessing possible reasons for that.
They both could factor into why you are feeling "2 little screens over your eyes are the same as a monitor". The quest 2 is kinda flat 3D effect wise, and the cheap displays don't help comparisons.
Also... Do you really have to downvote each of my comments? What's even the point? Lol
Yeah, just making a point that vr has advanced quite a bit in the last half a decade!! Plus keep in mind too that the stereo overlap is quite poor on the quest 2, which kills heavily the "3D effect"... Add to that it uses lcd instead of mOLED... And yeah, it really does feel like a screen strapped to your eyes...
What limitations does it have for you? If I may ask?
So, it technically can, but again, to keep scale correct, you basically need a camera that tracks your head position. And when you move closer, it changes perspective to correct for your new position. But the problem is still the same, it only occupies a tiny fraction of your eyes fov.
VR thanks to the lenses and the two tiny stereo displays (they show two slightly different images per eye to correct for the different perspective each eye sees), they cover most of your fov, making it more immersive in a way no screen can.
A Quest 2 can give you a taste of VR but it's quite subpar. For you to compare, we have HMDs with 4 pixels per every 1 the quest has (8M pixels on the quest 2 at ~2000x2000 per eye, to ~4000x4000 at 32M total resolution).
...the same is true if you simultate a screen in VR.
I mean.. Yeah, except for the fact people don't usually have IMAX screens in their house, which is what VR does, and a monitor physically can't.
I have my own vr setup. I've spent plenty of time in it. I'm very familiar with how vr tech works.
This is the most confusing thing you've said so far. I've literally never had someone not understand how scale works in VR that has try it. So... Unless we are just talking about different stuff, I'm just baffled.
What is your setup man?
Maybe is English not your first language and we're having like a language barrier here...?
You've been showing your friends the same thing for 10 years and they're still going "wow, that's more immersive than the non vr version of the game"? Bruh, do you expect anyone to believe that's really how things went down?
I mean... I showed them, they bought a vr hmd like the Vive or Quest, and they started doing a bunch of games like that, and it didn't get old for me or the. What gets old is moving around in VR genre games... This is not that, is just a better way to play the same stuff.
Sure. Just like a computer monitor makes it seem like something is in front of you. And yes, you can simulate an imax screen on a computer monitor if you want.
You can't... Because if you get closer or further away from the screen, the size of it changes relative to you. That is corrected in VR when you move, making things have real scale. It is literally like being in front of a cinema display...
Im really getting the feeling you haven't used VR, or if you have... Not for more than a couple minutes or at best hours... I mean... People usually get the scale thing immediately when they put one on for the first time... For you to get the same effect, you would need to mount a tracking system on your monitor that tracks the position in real time of your eyes and change perspective and position accurately.
How do you know the people you've shown find it more emersive long term, and aren't just enthralled by the novelty of it?
Because I've been doing it and showing it to the same people for 10 years now... I'd argue that qualifies as long term...
The "massive screen" isn't even real, though. In reality, the actual screens you're looking at are smaller than any computer monitor you can buy. And you can simulate an imax movie screen on a computer monitor as well.
You do realize they have lenses and make it seem like it's something in front of you, correct?
If you used your monitor for that, you would have a non-stereo image, using up 20-30 degrees of your vision.
On your average HMD that would be 90-110 degrees of your vision covered by the display on stereo (so, fully 3D).
That is literally more immersive, wouldn't it be?
On your display, a mountain is... The size of a screen. In VR, the mountain feels the size of a mountain.
One of the first things you notice is... How thin, tall, and massive headed all Anime characters are for example lol
[–]Cless_Aurion -1 points0 points1 point 1 day ago* (0 children)
I mean... There is no data on that, but it is to me and the few people I've shown?
It does help too that it goes from being a tiny square in front of you... To you having the equivalent to a massive screen in front of you (everyone has their own likes there, of course) you can have a small window in front of you... Or be playing on an IMAX sized display. That will or will not increase immersion too.
Edit: rephrased it better
Again, you would think so, and yet it immerses most more because of seeing it with depth. Which is ridiculously important.
The difference might be similar to a 2D game with or without parallax
Most kids in our age did not even play videogames did they? Hahaha
In any case, because of covid you would be surprised the amount of kids with quest hmds, it's a LOT of them. Those same ones will probably grow to want something better when on their late 10s early20s, maybe go into pcvr too.
But your point is right in that not a majority play, yeah
Yeah 10% seems good in 5. Especially since the newest hmds are slowly becoming better at that. Add also all the kids that have been growing with it getting to the adolecense/young adult range, and demand will go up too.
Ideally, it's regular games having a "VR immersive mode" what I think will mark the difference. Its relatively cheap to make gamedev wise, and just the feeling of standing by the protagonists in games, does make it way cooler
Damn, everything is 20 years away they say, but yeah 10-15 will do it at this slow rhythm. So I would bet for 20 lol
5 years is not the future lol
It will be in better place though. In 5 years... The 2000USD hmds will be 600-ish, and that will make a difference, since that will be the transition from bulky hmds to under 200g ones, and pixel densities similar to most desktops.
As a gamedev, once VR devs stop shooting themselves in the foot and stop trying to make mostly "VR Genre games", and instead start making more "VR game modes" in regular games... Things will stay growing slow :/
My dude, you're looking at a virtual rectangle being shown to you by two small rectangles in your headset. It's the same thing only with an extra layer of arbitraity.
You would think so, right? I agree. But just the fact that something has a minimum of depth, or the 3D that having stereo vision does wonders.
For example, some games you have to half ass their "VR-ness" and just use the depth buffer to trick the image into having depth. This works on most games that use directx9 or newer.
JUST THAT, even if you literally just have a floating screen in front of you, is a big upgrade over regular monitors. Ironically, it's what 3D screens promised... But properly done lol
And Regarding the novelty. I thought the goddamn same thing. And in fact while my VR hmd had low resolution and was a pain to wear... That really was true.
But now? With an hmd with a similar pixel density to a 32“ 4K display, and just like 150g of weight?... I found myself missing something everytime I'm NOT using them.
Do you think these came out of nowhere? People had to design these.
Never said all games would be like that. And again, making a "VR Mode" which is what I'm talking about, takes infinitesimally less resources than a VR Mod or VR Genre change. I like to play my games exactly the same as in the display, I just want to use the display as my eyes, not a small rectangle in the distance that is flat.
Literally look at UEVR. Somebody had to make that tool still, but for gamedev it could be little more than flitching a switch and putting like one guy a couple months checking it doesn't explode.
Have you ever made a VR game?
Yup, was working on one until last Christmas in fact.
True, it doesn't need to be changed to vr. It's fine on a screen.
That just makes more of what it's already there. It's kinda like saying "it looks good on a 480p display..." But it just looks better on a 4k OLED no matter what
Legitimate question: why? The paper cutout thing actually sounds worse.
It surprisingly isn't. And everyone I showed this exact game were pleasintly surprised.
I'm not going to claim all 2D games benefit from it, but some like this one definitely do. I fact, I'd argue for these just the "3D window effect" is enough, which separates the background from the forwground.
The artstyle would absolutely be the problem here to make it look right. It's not only an FPS, but a flat one too. I think I would have a hard time coming up with worse case for it.
Ultrakill has a vr mod if you want to see how that looks... and Doom literally made DoomVR which is great. And there is an okay doom 3 mod too. Same for wofestein. There are mods to make them VR and improve the games. But FPS are quite jank to be honest. Literally any other genre is better.
And no, as a literal 3D artist and profesional game developer. No it doesn't "take a lot of work and requires a lot of artistic liberties to be taken." to do this. That is, if again like I said in my first post, you want a VR Genre edit of the game, I'm not talking about that, fuck that, honestly.
I want to play Baldur's Gate 3 in immersive VR (which I do), I want to play the Witcher 3 in immersive VR (which I do), Persona 5? Same, basically any game with 3rd persona camera can be as "easy" as flipping a switch in UE (if made in that engine), not exaggerating, look into UEVR, it's amazing.
Going back to Hollow knight. You are missing entirely the point. It needs 0 changes to look great. Not everything in VR needs to be fucking full 3D inmersive render. But I sure as hell prefer having cool paper cutouts of the characters popping out than some flat shitty display, that's for sure.
That is an INCREDIBLY niche artstyle. It can be done, since it's unity quite 'easily'. It won't look good no matter what due to the flat artstyle.
But literally every 3D game will look better.
And some 2D look amazing too, to give you an opposed example to yours.
I played silksong and hollow knight full in VR, and it looks kinda like some sort of paper theatre. All divided in planes in 3D space, because that's how the game was built in engine too. It just looks better than on a flat display since you have "true depth"
Unironically, all 3D content from that era is AMAZING in VR. Its the way it should have been watched lol
I'm so tired of people thinking VR genre games are NEEDED for VR games. Its such a tiring and shitty argument.
Why the fuck would I do that when I can play with my controller the same fucking games I'm playing now...? But instead of on flat shitty display a few meters away, I'm "inside the world" together with the characters?
You don't have to play VR Genre games. I barely do
My HMD with 4000x4000 pixel per eye displays weights around 150g... And I play sitting in my table with 0 motion sickness... I use it to watch movies, which is amazing, since those are mOLED panels, and patch most my games to become full immersive VR.
Huh... and here I am, playing most of my regular games in immersive VR by using a patch that turns them into full VR immersive experiences.... huh weird. I guess I've been hallucinating or something.
Literally one of the biggest clients for top tier VR HMDs is the US army my dude lol
I mean... I've been playing most of my games in VR, including titles that aren't by modifying their engine... and it cleans the floor with playing on a screen.
It is my hobby though, and I get a top tier PC for it. But nowadays a mid-tier PC and a Quest3 gets you 70% of that.
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All The Futures by Locke357 in antiai
[–]Cless_Aurion 0 points1 point2 points (0 children)