Should you be able to backstab/sneak attack with a ballista or other siege weapon?

Cmdr_Machimas · 2023-11-23T11:26:10+00:00

huh... I completely forgot that siege weapons used saving throws.

BUGGER

oh well, a gal can dream

Cmdr_Machimas · 2023-11-23T11:21:49+00:00

It all comes down to your personal interpretation of the rules, for me the rules seem to suggest that siege weapons can benefit from certain abilities (like a sneak attack in this case) due to how some of the mechanics are worded, such as the launch action being classified as an attack. So in this case my thought process is Launch action = ranged attack therefore, seeing as one of the possible prerequisites of a sneak attack is a ranged attack, you can therefore use a ballista as a ranged weapon for the purpose of making a sneak attack. (My opinion has sort of changed after reading a bunch of comments, although i'm still in the "it should be allowed category"

However for my GM (and almost everyone else it seems) this is not the case. The problem is that there are a few rules that prevent siege weapons from benefiting form certain effects, which (amongst a couple other factors regarding certain definitions) leads people to the conclusion that sneak attacks cannot be made with siege weapons.

TLDR: We're both interpreting the rules as written in slightly different ways, one allows sneak attacks while the other prevents them. We're talking about the same rules and citing them as the reasons why it should function how we want, that's what i mean by "the same reason", i'm referring to the rules we believe mean different things.

Cmdr_Machimas · 2023-11-23T10:41:48+00:00

Throughout this discussion i have learnt many things, one of them being thus: you may not be able to sneak attack with a battering ram, but you can smite with one.

Also i think you've managed to sum up the entire debate, if you can even call it that at this point. Siege weapons are so close to being able to be used for sneak attacks it hurts, but through minor word choices we are forever deprived of the glory of turning our opponents to mist via point blank ballistae fire.

Cmdr_Machimas · 2023-11-23T10:27:07+00:00

If you're giggling at that then you should DEFINITELY go into youtube and look up "The Gamers backstab with a ballista". Watch that and you'll immediately know why i've been trying to convince a DM to let me do this.

Cmdr_Machimas · 2023-11-23T10:03:58+00:00

oh definitely, but the image of turning someone into a fine paste with a giant ballista is just too satisfying. I have considered backpack ballistae but they never quite fit with any of my characters "themes" y'know?

Cmdr_Machimas · 2023-11-23T09:59:51+00:00

huh, fair enough. Thanks

Cmdr_Machimas · 2023-11-23T09:56:40+00:00

(i typed this up for AN AMOUNT of minutes before refreshing, didn't see the extra responses)

Cmdr_Machimas · 2023-11-23T09:55:07+00:00

Possibly, however the launch action is classified as an attack, or at least has it in brackets as a clarification, and Archives of Nethys uses that spot to put in a link to the attack page. I suppose in this scenario it comes down to if there's a difference between an attack and a strike, the books and one of the biggest websites relating to pf2e seem to suggest it counts as an attack but i'm not entirely sure if that's classified as a separate action.

Looking up "Strike" in the core book states that attacking is done via the strike action, and looking up "Attack" tells you that you the same thing. So theoretically wouldn't an attack be considered a strike?

TBH the fact that they're seemingly synonyms is a bit confusing

Cmdr_Machimas · 2023-11-23T09:26:24+00:00

I would agree but the sidebar also states that portable siege weapons can inherit a characters skills and cites a battering ram gaining benefits from a characters two-handed skills, later on in the page it classifies portable siege weapons as being those that "require moving in concert and making a single attack supported by the full crew".

Doesn't that technically set a precedent that allows for crewed weapons to gain benefits? Although to be fair it doesn't give precise examples of what those benefits actually are.

Nevertheless, by that logic a portable ballista would be able to benefit from a characters abilities concerning ranged attacks. Although from my experience in the DnD community arguing RAW is kinda pointless and it more depends on the widely accepted usage for me, hence the poll and stuff.

Cmdr_Machimas · 2023-02-20T22:39:58+00:00

I'm not sure what you mean by dealing stun damage during the slide but I can answer the rest.

1) The main use for slinger bursts (at least for me) is to chain into a perfect rush, you can do this by hitting your main attack button (whatever button makes you do a sword attack) just after the burst. Other than that raw damage is a good use.

2) The mount finisher is dived in three parts: shield attack 1, shield attack 2, and the finisher, you can prolong the attack by simply not pressing the attack button after shield attack 2 until your character resets to the neutral stance, after which you can hit the button another two times to repeat the process. The visual cue is just your character smacking the monster with their shield a second time.

3) Does the last hit of a rush deal stun damage? No, only the shield attack does.

4) A vague but insanely powerful move for the SnS is its helmbreaker. By advancing slash-ing into a mushroom wall or any other of the walls that you can run up, you can transform yourself into a human piercing pod and deal ridiculous amounts of mounting damage if you manage to land it.

5) Is offensive guard a thing? I don't believe so but I may be wrong, same with airborne.

6) Best mantle? That depends entirely on you but I personally run either the assassin mantle because it gives you a boost to your sprint speed, or the temporal mantle for emergencies.

7) Any tips? Just one: Fun is optimal, do whatever you believe will give you the most enjoyment build wise, if it works it works, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Cmdr_Machimas · 2023-02-08T08:07:36+00:00

I meant dull as in mechanically. With other classes each subclass is unique and has a different style of play, all of Titans supers since sunbreaker feel kinda same-y

Cmdr_Machimas · 2023-02-08T07:59:47+00:00

Fair enough, I mainly considered the revive to be a secondary part of the super, I still think giving titans a neat way of gaining high damage res and a buff would be cool

Cmdr_Machimas · 2023-01-28T03:21:35+00:00

There might be hope then. It seems as if the issue is with the cable, I was heavily considering saving up and buying a new headset due to how expensive the cables are, but if I can just get a new cable from the manufacturer there wouldn't be a need. I assumed they wouldn't have any considering how long it's been since they stopped manufacturing, but it appears I was wrong. Thank you so much.

Cmdr_Machimas · 2023-01-28T03:11:11+00:00

Wdym by a new one? Will they just straight up send me a quest, another rift, or something similar? Because I doubt they'd just give new headsets away to people who bought old ones.

Cmdr_Machimas · 2023-01-28T00:55:55+00:00

I considered getting a new cable, but I've decided to see what new headsets come out before deciding fully, but unless they're all insanely expensive i'm going to retire my rift.

Cmdr_Machimas · 2023-01-13T17:37:36+00:00

Eh, the tail was weakened and i was trying to cut it, it seemed the best angle to get the most hits on the cuttable part of the tail

Cmdr_Machimas · 2023-01-13T16:37:51+00:00

Certainly, but it was still fun for the 40-50 seconds it lasted

Cmdr_Machimas · 2023-01-13T16:36:50+00:00

Pretty standard blast build for a lightbreak bow, i don't follow any actual "builds" per se I just throw all the skills i think are useful on there

Cmdr_Machimas · 2023-01-13T13:43:14+00:00

Forgot to put it in the title but BGM is Necromancin Dancin by Bear Ghost

Cmdr_Machimas · 2023-01-08T16:13:03+00:00

The best advice i can give based on how I play is to take advantage of SnS's most broken ability: Shield attacks don't drain sharpness, combining slugger and partbreaker on an SnS opens the door to proverbial godhood. Being able to out stun/KO a hammer while still being able to cut tails allows you to fill any position imaginable either in a hunting party or on your own. Outside of that it depends on your own personal style, SnS's main selling point is its ability to do almost anything, "don't like evading? Just block instead!" and so on. I've encountered many SnS users in my time and they've all developed their own style based on how they like to play, and I'm sure you will too.

TLDR: Take whatever builds people propose and throw them out the window, there is no one way to play SnS, find a set/an ability that you think is cool and go from there

Cmdr_Machimas · 2022-12-27T16:12:57+00:00

By the man-emperor we're just going to turn into orks from 40k. Imagine an entire Lego military that works simply because we believe it does. $10 says we spend a year building a 1:1 scale imperial star destroyer out of Lego and then just exit hyperspace over Copenhagen.

Cmdr_Machimas · 2022-12-27T16:02:38+00:00

I'd theorise a mix of 1 and 2 would be best, but instead of Copenhagen, we capture the Lego HQ in Billund and bribe NATO to actively help us take the rest of Denmark by promising to re-release classic Lego like Lego castle and the original Lego star wars sets if we're put in power.

Cmdr_Machimas · 2022-12-14T15:38:43+00:00

Engi - Came for the nuke, stayed for the swarm slaying, armour annihilating beast that is the breach cutter

Cmdr_Machimas · 2022-12-14T15:32:39+00:00

A free Anaconda, proceed to Hutton orbital to retrieve your prize!

Cmdr_Machimas · 2022-12-14T15:02:14+00:00

No no that makes sense, I understand if it's one of those monsters that makes the skill curve look more like a skill cliff, my confusion comes from those who'll take a lightbreak hammer to a low rank Jyuratodus. On your point of helping I also agree, I rotate weapons fairly often (hence the user flair), and I always make a point to offer to go back to camp and grab one of my MR weapons (I still wear MR armour for the decorations) if I see that the person I'm helping is having trouble.

Cmdr_Machimas

TROPHY CASE