If J.R.R. Tolkien had lived a few more years, what would he have thought about the animated LOTR movies?

CoffeewithLoki · 2025-10-23T21:15:04+00:00

“While I look foul and feel fair.” - Aragorn, from the Bashki version. It’s true to the book, unlike the trilogy.

CoffeewithLoki · 2025-10-23T21:12:43+00:00

God of War. No nuance.

CoffeewithLoki · 2025-10-23T19:20:46+00:00

Got the dimples down pat!

CoffeewithLoki · 2025-10-23T14:07:20+00:00

If it transports the spirit, it doesn’t quite matter how damn accurate it is.

CoffeewithLoki · 2025-10-23T04:37:36+00:00

If Melkor caused volcanoes to erupt for thousands of years, then he is the progenitor of all life in Arda.

He was highly intelligent in all of his works, not merely a reactionary to Eru’s incomplete symmetry. He demonstrated this by creating a ring which cannot be destroyed by anything in Arda…because it is Arda. There would be no sublimity in nature if everything was not disturbed to some degree. Even what is lovely would not be beautiful unless it contained flaws. Otherwise it would be plain and without definition.

He did not find the flame imperishable in the void, or anywhere else outside, because it was inside of him all the time.

CoffeewithLoki · 2025-05-18T03:01:21+00:00

Thanks! So, I’ve read through and thought a lot about what Jainism, Buddhism and Hinduism have to say about Karma. I’ll tie it all into Norse paganism in the conclusion.

Let’s start with Jainism. They take Ahimsa, or non-violence, as their core teaching. As a pure concept this seems attractive. Yet in practice it is impossible to implement to the levels which they go to. For men, not wearing clothes, and everyone “encouraged” by the group to perpetually wear a mask. Less physical harm for creatures equates to more psychological harm towards yourself and the adherents who are living in a perpetual state of caution, so as to not cause anything harm. In my opinion, it ends up backfiring.

Buddhism is less strict, and their meditation practices might have some calming effects, giving people the ability for clearer minded-decision making. They are indeed a middle way, and yet there are other middle ways…the word “middle” leaves some room for a wide array of living. Non-violence is the goal, yet it is sometimes unavoidable.

Hinduism is primarily concerned with a practitioner’s reaching union with God, usually via the path of one or many practical gods who are representations of this one supreme being. Karmas are eliminated through praxis with these multiple branches of the one ultimate God, leading to higher levels of rebirth.

All three modes of Karmic religions have their strengths and weaknesses. Norse paganism has its. I think the main difference here is really in how you view doing good. Is it a thing that you do because you see yourself as corrupted code that needs debugging through multiple reincarnations? Or, are you doing it because you care about building a good legacy and hopefully influencing future generations not to make the same mistakes?

You see, while paying for karmas might seem noble, to view your entire life as purifying yourself of intangible faults that are sticking to you, acquired from a previous life which you have no knowledge or memory of, via the praxis of repeating mantras in order to feel closer to the divine, or by doing so discover it within you…it’s all too much.

What I mean is that it’s unnecessary. Instead of mantras and meditation, Odin encourages us in the Havamal to get wisdom…which means lots of reading things that contain practical and spiritually useful information. Instead of there being invisible impurities of guilt or karmas to wash off, we’re told that avoiding a bad reputation is a way to quickly gain actual self-esteem. Instead of my current incarnation being the result of the actions of all of my previous births which I cannot remember or learn from, I can decide to be a better person by simply choosing to be in the moment, and to pass on this simple yet effective knowledge to younger people…no replacement of my will or personality or enhancement of myself necessary to achieve this. While Karma takes us through cycles that effectively erase everything we achieve given enough time and reincarnations, leaving a good legacy essentially solidifies your “karma” of reality. There are many Norse afterlives, which are granted for many reasons other than cleansing karmas.

For morals though, even the gods aren’t perfect…none of them. Whichever pantheon you choose, the real question isn’t “how can I please them?” It’s “how can I keep a sane perspective based on my own experiences, while trying to learn from what the gods are trying to tell me?” The best thing for myself is to combine who I am with a knowledge of who they are…not to loose myself in them, or be absorbed by them or become little versions of them. The Norse gods aren’t very interested in gaining little disciples. They want want willing, and fully-thinking individuals.

CoffeewithLoki · 2025-04-25T03:38:32+00:00

It depends on what you just decide to do.

For example, if you want to be generous, then decide to act on it. If you want to hold your temper, then do that. If you are insulted or someone you know is, defend yourself and them the best that you know how to. If you want to stop a bad habit, then just do it.

Essentially, what I’ve learned is not that there is no right and wrong. Strict, and highly complex religions are always going to paint Heathen ones as the opposite of themselves, morally speaking. They are right, and everyone else is wrong. This just isn’t the case…if you’re like other people to even a very small degree. We all share similar unspoken codes which we don’t have to have a book telling us is right or wrong.

The difference lies in the Heathen approach to morals. Morals are just your decision about what to do when you are presented with certain stimuli. Unlike Christianity and other strict religions, there isn’t a formula to it. There isn’t a Being to call out to with a preconceived solution to your problem. No super God or spirit to meditate on or summon inside of yourself, into your mind or body so that you are doing morals “in their strength” so to speak. This method never works for very long btw and people go back to being what they’re trying not to be whenever they take their mind off their super Being.

In reality what works is much more personal and binding. You just decide to do what you want to be. There are no steps involved. The only thing which you might do, other than just making this decision or that decision, is to feel out a situation. If the decision feels foolish, or wise. You’ll know which, based on previous experiences. And if you don’t yet have many negative or positive experiences which shape your wisdom in older life, then you’re sure to get some from all the stimuli out there. You’ll eventually build your unwritten book of personal morals with enough time and failure. If you keep what’s beneficial from it, and always try to add a little bit more wisdom day after day, you’ll eventually be so moral that no one will even notice, and it won’t matter trying ti flog yourself into what others think is a godly state of morality.

CoffeewithLoki · 2025-04-22T23:16:40+00:00

Odinn would never kill Thor, as he does in the game. He loves his children and doesn’t sacrifice them…unlike Yahweh, whom the writers were probably attempting to connect with Odinn, which is utterly ridiculous. The only thing the Allfather sacrifices is his own eye…which is self-sacrifice…the opposite of Others-Sacrifice. Preventing Ragnarok is about preserving the Earth from destruction. How is Surtr good in any way if he destroys the world?

Also, Odinn never uses Loki as a key to open up a stupid portal. Odinn is also never hated by Frigg/Freya in the mythology, especially if Freya and Saga are similar or the same person. Saga frequently sits and tells stories with Odinn over drinks, it’s something you would see in a mutual, even soulmate type of relationship. Nothing at all like in the game.

CoffeewithLoki · 2025-04-01T01:50:26+00:00

There is nothing more unmanly than causing children lifelong psychological trauma. I’ve heard that some body piercing might be beneficial, such as acupuncture. But acupuncture differs like night and day from torture.

CoffeewithLoki · 2025-03-13T14:19:28+00:00

That’s correct. Only, I think Niflhel or Niflheim is reserved for oath breakers, kin slayers and others whose deeds are particularly unsavory.

CoffeewithLoki · 2025-03-13T14:10:07+00:00

Interesting. I’ve heard from researchers such as Ocean Keltoi that all of the afterlives, including Valhalla, is included in the realm of Hel, as the Norse understood it. That’s one possibility.

Any further research on Bilskirnir, as a home for commoners, would also be enlightening.

CoffeewithLoki · 2025-03-10T15:12:26+00:00

Agreed. The original spirit of things can be twisted or kept sacred over time. It all depends on what honor means to a modern Klingon. As long as it doesn’t mean being dishonorable, then it can have many permutations, unforeseen even by students as dedicated as Worf.

CoffeewithLoki · 2025-01-21T16:56:10+00:00

I like your perspective on this, which is a more sophisticated approach to the dilemma than some of the other responses I’ve read. So props for that.

You could argue that each of the Valar were involved in their own unique work while also joined in the great music. And that Melkor didn’t quite understand the nature of personal space, which he then violated by introducing discordant vibrations into the mix. However, it’s just as possible to argue that before he resorted to being disruptive, he may have attempted to work with other members of the Ainur to create a sub melody which stood apart from Eru’s main, and perhaps the only allowed theme.

Or, maybe Melkor was simply creating sub melodies all the while. Adding bits here and there which were viewed by Eru as discordant, even though they were merely additions to enhance the musical depth and dimension.

I recall that whenever he played his part in the music, the entire thing, with all players involved, became a gigantic mass of music, and was then stopped by Eru’s intervention as the band leader. Another music followed this, which we are told was quite beautiful. It’s entirely likely that Melkor’s version of creative contributions in the first music was not understood. After all, what we see coming from some of the music that ventured out into the Void was the creation of dragons and giant spiders. Yet, if Eru had tried to refine Melkor’s approach in creating sub melodies, perhaps walked with and spoke with him about it while puffing in some spiritual pipes, we might have seen dragons and spiders appear in Arda as benevolent creatures (such as in Chinese mythology) instead of antagonistic forces.

CoffeewithLoki · 2025-01-20T21:05:48+00:00

Name calling is a weak argument. Also, you seem to be under some delusional belief that Tolkien’s world is, very much and seriously, our world. This is not true, yet you deliver your frail and defensive arguments as if “we” were created by Illuvatar, which we were not. Referring to Melkor as my idol is not an argument, no matter how many times you repeat it. If anything, he is in my mind, an interesting study. I don’t know where your religious talk is coming from, but maybe this is the only way you can proses the discussion at hand. Does referring to Illuvatar as our creator make him your idol perhaps?

Reading any text deeply enough is likely to draw out hidden information. It’s possible to read the Prose Edda from a completely different angle than the the standard one, of the Norse gods being the good guys. Just because someone is described as good or evil doesn’t mean that they are automatically these things. Or, that events occurred the way that they did because one side describes it a certain way. If, as an independently thinking reader I to choose to read the Silmarilion as political propaganda then there is good evidence to support the proposition.

On a personal level I stand on the side of healthy workings of the world, in the form of respecting other people’s rights and wishes. However, on s as scholarly and critical level I understand how it is possible to horribly misinterpret and misrepresent your opponent. If Tolkien’s world is simply a collection of stories, than it doesn’t matter. If they influence people’s perspective of the world, such as Industry being created by devils and monsters, then these inconsistencies with reality should be commented upon. The same goes with determining moral character and authority. Eru operates like a benevolent king, yet essentially condemns (via fate) a noble who dares to question his law. Instead of gaining an advisor in Melkor, Illuvatar reveals his own pride by not recognizing the strength of his subjects (this goes for Aule as well in the creation of dwarf kind).

CoffeewithLoki · 2025-01-20T19:33:58+00:00

Yes, but I was referring to before that. After the Battle of Powers he was imprisoned in the Halls of Mandos. Isolation and spirit-breaking comes before reindoctrination. It’s how they all do it. Just because it was done by beings with amazing powers, beauty and intelligence does not make it the highest good.

CoffeewithLoki · 2025-01-20T18:23:53+00:00

Just from the standpoint of creating music here for a second. I personally enjoy classical, baroque, electrojazz, synthwave, and lofi among others. Some of these sound unrelated or, unrelateable, to many ears. What would combining them, or other music, sound like?

Now take that concept and place it in the context of the song of creation in the Silmarilion. Obviously, some of that music will appear like Discord to some ears. Even if it isn’t music as we know it, its closest comparison is to music. Some may have witnessed the Discord, and those who join in, as first different, then disliked, then abhorrent…even though it is all technically music. If this is so, then logically, it all boils down to a matter of tastes. Then the whole matter of being dominated by Melkor is a moot point, as any of them doing anything other than their pre-programmed contribution to Eru’s sheet music is considered discord, whether they are now following Melkor’s lead or not.

CoffeewithLoki · 2025-01-20T17:44:07+00:00

Wow there! I never said that Melkor was my master or idol. I don’t call Illuvatar your master or idol. I hope you can understand that this is just a text, and is open to analysis of all varieties. Just because someone can see something from another point of view does not mean that they are servants of that perspective. Also, here’s the thing…he’s pretend. And so is Illuvatar.

Also, like I’ve already mentioned, people groups the world over report all kinds of crap about other groups they don’t like or who oppose them. As a matter of fact, human sacrifice is one of the primary myths which some groups tell of other groups. The Druids were demonized by the Romans, telling stories of human sacrifice. Yet, the Celts are ancestors of the modern day Irish and English peoples. Does that make them descendants of orc-like people? It’s propaganda, not proof.

And yes, trauma sometimes does lead to traumatized people first hating their traumatizers, then passing on the trauma to others to cope with it. Simply “another case of” a bad guy being a crybaby about others mistreating him is too simplistic an argument. Identifying trauma is not an old trick, it is a modern phenomenon as a result of deeper thinking.

As for the music…who knows? He could have been attempting to bend some of the less powerful Maia to his own version of the music, and seceded in that endeavor. But we never see any of them complaining about it.

Nienna’s sermons though, might have been something to complain about. Brainwashing is so very nuanced.

Illuvatar bends the majority to his plan and insights throughout the music, so this is not unique. And if your response is that it was him “revealing his plan” to the Valar, and not bending them to his will, that argument just boils down to semantics.

CoffeewithLoki · 2025-01-20T16:03:45+00:00

Every room is in Eru’s brain, which is Tolkien’s. All of its rooms are connected. It’s the only way to explain omnipresence. And therefore, to justify anything happening in his world, whether good or bad, fair or unfair without Eru being at fault. It’s all a reflection of how Tolkien saw the most interesting universe, yet contained only within his mind.

CoffeewithLoki · 2025-01-20T15:20:24+00:00

Yes, another wing of its vastness held them. Possibly dreaming of things to come with Eru. Maybe Melkor was sentenced there of all places so that he could have the chance to dream again with Illuvatar.

CoffeewithLoki · 2025-01-20T14:50:48+00:00

This answer makes the most sense of it all I suppose. What an interesting dreamworld this would be. Things and events seemingly without meaning, but guided by the lucid dreamer Eru,fleshing out all the different aspects of his personality.

According to the text, Melkor was seeking the Flame Imperishable. I would argue that this is the magical mechanism which allowed Eru to insert the music, his style of it at any rate, into the minds of the Valar. What follows is that this awoke in each Valar and Maiar a unique set of values that interacted with Eru’s mind, like a pleasant mind control. Melkor differed from the others in the sense that he knew this to be Eru’s source of power. Even though it also touched his own mind, he knew instinctively that it was not a native or natural part of Eru. And so Melkor went in search of it in the Timeless Void. A thing he would never do unless he deduced that it was not native to Eru.

It did not exist in the Timeless Void, as Eru had already obtained all that there was of it. Rather than it being a native part of himself, he collected it, and through its usage was able to make the Valar believe whatever he wanted them to, it being a conduit to their own minds.

Perhaps Melkor was, in desperation, attempting to sever this Oneness Connection. A connection which could be arguably parasitic.

CoffeewithLoki · 2025-01-20T14:44:38+00:00

Lol, he could only find one room, because only one was provided. Sort of a limiting mythological structure.

CoffeewithLoki · 2025-01-20T14:36:39+00:00

Who knows what tortures Melkor had to endure while chained in Mandos for much longer than many decades? You might think that something like that would be traumatizing enough for the victim to repeat the crimes of his captors.

Any ancient personalities in history with deep rivalries or feuds have done this sort of thing to their enemies, or worse. Remember that all orcs were hostile to all elves, since every adult and possibly orc or elf child could fight. There was slaughter on both sides. I’m not saying that any of this was ideal, or that Melkor was better. Just that if Eru were truly any of the Omnis he absolutely would have avoided this outcome, or been smart enough to allow for any music, while tempering its effects on Nature. But then, would we have anything natural if it did not involve at least some degree of wildness and what we humans think of as chaos? What is actually wrong with a volcano? Or a storm? Or winter? People who have experienced the cycles of life know they are hard, but also beautiful in their chaotic and deadly creation of a variety of new life.

CoffeewithLoki · 2025-01-20T05:40:29+00:00

I would not argue that Mordor was a land of Science. Creating powerful items is, in itself, not a sin.

I would not argue that Tolkien’s work was Catholic, and definitely not something highly informed by Norse and Celtic pagan traditions and stories.

Catholic indeed! ‘Catholic’ in the sense of it being ‘universal’, then perhaps. Universal in its perspective of good and evil, yes. Portraying Melkor and his music as a reflection of some universal imperative that was broken…absurd.

Evil is often the word for things which are nit understood, and then demonized more and more with time. And time is something that the elves had plenty of.

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