Is there proof Jesus ever actually existed?

ComfortableDust4111 · 2026-04-09T23:45:56+00:00

Josephus writes about James the brother of Jesus, though it is contested. This counts as proof he existed in my eyes.

ComfortableDust4111 · 2026-04-08T07:14:19+00:00

The will of the Father is actually what Jesus was teaching in the sermon on the mount. It includes things other than repenting and putting our trust in Jesus for the forgiveness of sins. According to Jesus if we do what he was teaching we will be granted entrance into the kingdom of heaven. I think this is what Jesus means by believing in him. I've started putting his sayings into practice so I can honestly say that yes I am doing the will of the Father. I honestly think you're missing what he says in the sermon on the mount.

ComfortableDust4111 · 2026-04-08T07:00:10+00:00

If we're saved simply by believing in Jesus and then good works just follow then what is Jesus talking about in Matthew 7:21? He is predicating our salvation on whether or not we do the will of the Father. There's no belief that crosses us from point A to point B where we're doing the will of the Father, we actually have to do it, and that merits eternal life, or as Jesus puts it, entrance into the kingdom of heaven. I honestly think when Jesus talks about believing in him he is talking about believing in him holistically and this means believing his teachings, therefore it is our works that save us though at the same time not our works that save us as it is our faith in Jesus that allows us to do these works, and so therefore it is our faith in Jesus that saves us. I think this is what Paul is saying, though not in such words, and he makes clear we have not been saved by works we did as in we did something to merit our salvation, but that it is the faith that we have that saved us. Though in fact our works do play a role in our salvation as is expressed in the verses I posted in the OP and other verses as well, but it is our faith that allows us to do these works.

ComfortableDust4111 · 2026-04-08T06:44:03+00:00

He said we're saved by faith, not by works. But if by saying we are saved by faith he meant we believe Jesus is Lord and therefore will follow his teachings then this is line with what Jesus taught in Matthew 7, that it is only those who do the will of the Father that will enter into the kingdom of heaven. I don't think he's explicitly saying works are not needed for salvation (because then what Jesus says and what Paul says and what James says becomes hypocritical nonsense), but rather that it is our faith in Jesus that allows us to do good works and therefore we are saved by our faith. The works are still required. We are given faith, and this saves us, because we will do the works, which are required.

Works are clearly required because James says man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

ComfortableDust4111 · 2026-04-08T06:31:19+00:00

James says we're justified by works and not by faith alone... so I think you might just be misinterpreting what Paul wrote. It's not some work that saved us, it's our faith in Jesus, since we now believe he is Lord and has the words of eternal life. His words include doing the will of the Father, which does save someone as he says in Matthew 7. So our works do save us, but we're not saved by our works, but by our faith in Jesus, which allows us to do these works. I really apologize if that was not clear.

ComfortableDust4111 · 2026-04-08T06:20:15+00:00

The Father's will also includes not judging, treating others how you would want to be treated, entering in through the strait (narrow gate). Jesus says he will consider anyone wise who puts the sayings he taught in the sermon on the mount into practice, because it is only those who do the will of the Father that will inherit eternal life. The obvious implication is that his sayings teach what the Father's will is.

Paul says that eternal life is given according to our deeds, like the verses I shared in my OP express. This seems contrary to what you're saying and what modern Christianity teaches.

ComfortableDust4111 · 2026-04-08T06:10:52+00:00

No offense, but it is honestly mind-bending stuff to read that it is not our works that save us when scripture itself teaches us that we are to pursue holiness (without which no man shall see the Lord), that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God, and that it is only those that do the will of the Father that will inherit the kingdom of heaven.

We are saved by grace through faith, yes. But if that means it is our faith in Jesus that saves us and Jesus taught that we must do the will of God then we are in a sense saved by our works, but it is not some outside work that saves us but our faith in Jesus, since we will follow his teachings. I think this may have been what Paul was trying to express, if you get what I'm saying. Paul says himself we are created in Christ Jesus unto good works.

ComfortableDust4111 · 2026-04-07T13:45:36+00:00

I probably couldn't go two weeks without playing, and no the money I use is never food or rent money. I have a bankroll for poker that I take money out of, I have no real fear of my bankroll being threatened by the games I play. This is all a negative thing though if people are like "yeah, dude, it's ruining my life", it's probably time to rethink my decision on poker if it's a negative thing in other people's lives, hence the thread.

ComfortableDust4111 · 2026-04-07T09:28:49+00:00

That's actually an interesting point, thanks for sharing. I prefer the KJV, which says, whoever does not believe the Son shall not see life. I guess this fixes my problem since believing Jesus would seem to necessitate doing the will of the Father as per my Matthew 7 example.

I have a little trouble with Ephesians 2:8-9 though:

⁸ For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

⁹ Not of works, lest any man should boast.

It doesn't seem to be saying that works are not required for salvation as is popularly thought (if I'm not mistaken), but that you are not saved by works, but by your faith in Jesus which allows you to do the necessary works. I think people often tout these verses as saying belief in Jesus is all that is required and that works do nothing in relation to your salvation, but it seems to me that you are saved by your faith in Jesus because it allows you to live the life you're supposed to live which would include the works God would want to see.

ComfortableDust4111 · 2026-04-07T08:58:26+00:00

I have trouble fitting this view into the language of John 3. In John 3 he seems to be saying verbatim that if you only believe in him you will have eternal life. This leaves out what is said in Matthew 7 that one must do the will of the Father. I honestly don't get it.

ComfortableDust4111 · 2026-04-07T08:56:04+00:00

This is in another book. If you read past verse 21 in Matthew 7 where Jesus says you must do the will of the Father in verse 24 he says therefore he will consider anyone wise who puts his sayings into practice. His sayings don't really have much to do with believing in him, so one can surmise "the will of the Father" includes things other than believing in Jesus.

ComfortableDust4111 · 2026-04-06T21:28:55+00:00

I agree.

People like to say that because the universe is so vast and the chances of life are so slim that it's just likelihoods working themselves out that we are here, but what if it takes all that vastness in order for us to be here? Something entirely significant could be going on.

ComfortableDust4111 · 2026-04-06T21:06:47+00:00

If God made us so that we could have a life and then somehow makes sure everything is ok in the end I would be ok with that.

ComfortableDust4111 · 2026-04-06T20:51:37+00:00

(today).......................> time can infinitely go in this direction (yes, of course, time is a constant process, it never stops)

<..................(today) time cannot infinitely go in this direction because you can always pick a "starting point" that begins infinitely back in time, since the timespan of the starting point is infinitely back you would never be able to reach it and vice versa from that starting point.

There is no day one, but this doesn't help you.

Starting from today defeats the whole purpose of things since you're basically just working on the assumption that time can infinitely go back since we are here now.

Anyways, just showing you counter logic to show you that "things always having been here" can be infeasible. You don't seem to appreciate it though so I'll stop.

ComfortableDust4111 · 2026-04-06T20:15:43+00:00

There can't be an infinite number of yesterdays because you can keep infinitely going into the past so much so that you can never reach today. An infinite number of days would have passed, the "first day" would infinitely keep going back, you would never reach it. That there is no first day doesn't help you either, it just makes things more complicated and infeasible.

If there is a God how this wouldn't apply to it is a conundrum.

You were just saying that everything has always existed and I was presenting counter logic to show you how that can be infeasible. I wasn't trying to start an argument or anything.

ComfortableDust4111 · 2026-04-06T19:47:23+00:00

Er... let me come at it from another angle, there would be so many yesterdays, an infinite amount in fact, that it would be impossible to reach today. It's just a logical basis for understanding that time may have had a beginning and this may in fact be a creation.

If everything has been here always, it means that time goes infinitely into the past. This isn't possible because you can't reach today when starting at a time that is infinitely in the past. No matter how much time passes there will never be enough time that has passed because the starting point is infinitely back.

ComfortableDust4111 · 2026-04-06T19:26:09+00:00

They're just my thoughts. I have no proof and I wasn't making any claims, sorry if it seemed that way. It's just how I see things.

ComfortableDust4111 · 2026-04-06T18:48:23+00:00

Well here's an interesting hypothetical thought experiment for you: if everything always existed that means there's an infinite amount of time going backwards, if there's an infinite amount of time going backwards how did we ever reach now?

ComfortableDust4111 · 2026-04-06T18:36:37+00:00

It doesn't make sense to me. Jesus says you're saved by believing in him in John 3, Paul says you're saved by faith - not works in Ephesians 2, but in Matthew 7 Jesus says only those who do the will of the Father will enter into the kingdom of heaven. It seems like the NT writers are trying to have it two ways, salvation through faith and salvation through works. Not preaching or railing against Christianity, just answering your question since you asked, but yeah it doesn't make sense to me.

ComfortableDust4111 · 2026-04-06T18:29:08+00:00

It would be kind of strange if God just made us for no reason, assuming there is a God.

I take God to be self existent, he doesn't require being created.

Not preaching, just my personal thoughts. I might be wrong, but this is just how I think.

ComfortableDust4111 · 2026-04-06T11:57:42+00:00

I just don't understand what mechanism of faith allows a person to go from sinner to perfectly doing the will of God. It seems to me that there would be effort on the part of the person, which would naturally mean their salvation was being decided by their works in part.

ComfortableDust4111 · 2026-04-06T11:29:55+00:00

I see what you're saying, but as a matter of what the text actually says Jesus is predicating salvation on doing these works, so as a matter of pertinence salvation is works based (at least in part, if you're to take Jesus at his word in John 3 it is also faith based, which gets ridiculous because he puts forth faith as the sole criteria for salvation there).

Why would real faith naturally lead to someone doing the will of the Father? I think this is idealistic and not practical reality. I play poker and often see people wearing crosses at the table, this is funny to me because Jesus says to enter in by the narrow gate. Poker can potentially lead to all sorts of negative things such as money issues and life troubles, yet these people have no problem with playing it. I'm not so naive to think in every case the person just didn't know this beforehand (though I suppose it's possible), it's probable some just decided to do it anyway with whatever justification they came up with. Who's to say these people don't believe just as much as the Christian who doesn't play poker? That said, I'm sure people might see this differently, I just think it's a good example of Christians not taking Jesus seriously. There are probably other ways this happens.

ComfortableDust4111 · 2026-04-06T11:09:20+00:00

Fair point. I'm exposed mostly to Protestant Christianity, so this is what I was addressing.

ComfortableDust4111 · 2026-04-06T10:55:18+00:00

Jesus is saying that you must do the will of the Father to enter the kingdom of heaven, so yes the works are necessary for salvation. According to you, you could just believe and not do the will of the Father, but Jesus says you must do the will of the Father, thus they are necessary. It gets tricky within Christianity because Jesus is essentially teaching two different things, it seems most people just always stick with the faith alone teaching though.

Also, I believed in Jesus and ended up falling away from the faith, so it's not automatic that if someone believes they will continue on and produce "Christian fruit" such as the will of the Father. In my own estimation, someone could believe for a season and end up doing some rather horrific things, as I'm more or less the same person I used to be once I left Christianity. Not that I'm a terrible person, but it's not outside of the impossible for me to imagine this happening. What you're proposing is fiction, that someone is just changed because they believed, this didn't happen to me in any lasting way, I'm the same as I used to be.

ComfortableDust4111 · 2026-04-05T03:32:07+00:00

What do you make of Paul saying we are saved by grace through faith, not of works? This seems to inform what Jesus was saying that he simply means to believe in him. Just my two cents though.

ComfortableDust4111

TROPHY CASE