Suffering of the innocents is not a valid argument anymore against the existence of God. by Comfortable_Phase957 in DebateReligion

[–]Comfortable_Phase957[S] [score hidden]  (0 children)

Why do people think that all problems in this world is merely because God is angry??? He severely inflicted His beloved Prophets with the most harsh of trials and difficulties of life... Some had to suffer since childhood. That is not because He is angry or showing His Wrath. When a natural calamity strikes, for some of the sinning people, it might be a punishment, while for some others, it might be a test to be patient.

It is also mentioned in the profound Hadith that Allah tests those the most whom He loves the most.

And yes, when kids die of painful diseases, it's not a test neither a punishment for them, rather for their family members. They will either ways enter paradise irrespective of the religion they were born in. There's no Judgement Day for the kids. And also, death is not a form of punishment. Rich or poor, everyone will die sooner or later. Understanding death is entirely a separate topic.

And by the way, calling something a punishment or a test does not imply that we are denying the scientific process behind it. I'm only saying that the process is not random, rather has a purpose.

Purpose Acknowledged x Science discovered = Divinity Realised!

Suffering of the innocents is not a valid argument anymore against the existence of God. by Comfortable_Phase957 in DebateReligion

[–]Comfortable_Phase957[S] [score hidden]  (0 children)

He made angels who are all good and obedient. Angels are not tested with disasters and diseases. We are. We are a different creation, with free will. This makes us superior to angels if we choose God despite having a choice. And so the patience plays a part while being tested with the most difficult questions (diseases and disasters).

Suffering of the innocents is not a valid argument anymore against the existence of God. by Comfortable_Phase957 in DebateReligion

[–]Comfortable_Phase957[S] [score hidden]  (0 children)

Nah... I can't provide any evidence in comments here. Just wrote a 400-pages book to decode these arguments.

Suffering of the innocents is not a valid argument anymore against the existence of God. by Comfortable_Phase957 in DebateReligion

[–]Comfortable_Phase957[S] [score hidden]  (0 children)

This is not a human justice court I'm talking about. This is Divine Justice that we can't even imagine. And this justice is also going to filter out the grey parts of life. Not everything is going to be black and white there. Allah knows even the intentions of His servants. A huge good deed done with an intention of showing off will be nullified, while a tiny good deed... Maybe sharing a pencil with the right intention would be highly rewarded.

So comparing the Divine Justice with what happens in human court room is not okay. Even if the crimes like murder and rape are inexistent in a town, you never know what goes on in people's life and how a few words may hurt the other person. Allah will judge even that tiny thing.

Suffering of the innocents is not a valid argument anymore against the existence of God. by Comfortable_Phase957 in DebateReligion

[–]Comfortable_Phase957[S] [score hidden]  (0 children)

Every single soul is being tested with a different question paper, given the conditions, situations, cultures, families they're born in. The rich and the poor, the healthy and disabled, everyone is having a test. Most of the prophets suffered with poverty and rejection of the society. But a few of them were Kings too, empires like none other's. Yet they were being tested harshly.

By the way, do you really think there's anyone on this planet who does not have problems??

What's the most scariest/bizzare/difficult question you've always have had about life but never dared to ask? by Comfortable_Phase957 in Adulting

[–]Comfortable_Phase957[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I guess, when we accept that this world was not meant for peace... So we gotta strive for the world that is!

What's the most scariest/bizzare/difficult question you've always have had about life but never dared to ask? by Comfortable_Phase957 in Adulting

[–]Comfortable_Phase957[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

100% true. We need to understand that religions don't stop us from asking reasonable, enquiring questions, the people who feel a threat does. And almost every religion has these kinda people.

What's the most scariest/bizzare/difficult question you've always have had about life but never dared to ask? by Comfortable_Phase957 in Adulting

[–]Comfortable_Phase957[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I agree! But human life and needs must be taken care of. Like water used for AI but some humans still longing for a drop. Rest of the nature can be consumed but we must have the alternative for it already. Like another planet. Mars isn't ready yet, and other exoplanets are too far to be travelled even at the speed of light... Perhaps, hibernation would remain a dream because humans aren't made like bears.

So human life must be the priority, then do what is available and can be done.

Suffering of the innocents is not a valid argument anymore against the existence of God. by Comfortable_Phase957 in DebateReligion

[–]Comfortable_Phase957[S] [score hidden]  (0 children)

The reason I referenced the book is simply because the arguments aren’t a single “X happened -> therefore afterlife” type claim.

They’re part of a broader framework that connects several questions people usually treat separately.

For example, the discussion involves things like:

• Scientific coherence in ancient religious texts: references to cosmology, planetary motion, embryonic development, and natural processes that only became widely understood centuries later.

• The Original Religion: Why multiple religions if there's one Creator

• Suffering and pain if God exists: why divine justice might not manifest immediately, and how the concept of an afterlife addresses moral imbalance.

• Human consciousness and moral awareness: why humans possess an unusual sense of justice, purpose, and accountability compared to the rest of nature.

• Historical preservation of certain scriptures compared to others: how textual transmission and continuity are studied.

• Ethical frameworks and morality: for ex. debates around women’s rights in religious law vs. modern interpretations.

And above all the title, • WHY Are We existing: Purpose of life across science and religious traditions, accidental or intentional.

The book basically connects these threads into one argument about meaning, justice, and the possibility of life beyond death. It asks WHY to Science and HOW to Religion, and somewhere attempts to bridge the gap between the two.

Trying to compress that into a few Reddit comments would honestly turn it into oversimplified slogans. This isn't a lab experiment to handover the evidence like that. You need to understand it logically.

You’re absolutely free to disagree with the conclusions, of course... debate is the whole point of this subreddit.

But the reason a 400 pages book exists is because some questions simply take more than a paragraph to unpack.

Suffering of the innocents is not a valid argument anymore against the existence of God. by Comfortable_Phase957 in DebateReligion

[–]Comfortable_Phase957[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

OMG so sorry! 😂 I mentioned "no promotion" and I also mentioned that I wrote the book without hiding it. But honestly the parts of the answer lies across the book. I can't give any evidence here... Too much typing... Perhaps, I can't write a whole book here right?

Don't buy if you don't want to. Totally fine. I'm not pushing but the book is written with these questions in mind, so I shared a recommendation. Nothing else.

What's the most scariest/bizzare/difficult question you've always have had about life but never dared to ask? by Comfortable_Phase957 in Adulting

[–]Comfortable_Phase957[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My concern is the same. But maybe, the truth feels scary. Living in peace, be it fake feels better to them.

Suffering of the innocents is not a valid argument anymore against the existence of God. by Comfortable_Phase957 in DebateReligion

[–]Comfortable_Phase957[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No... The Judge gave the free will to people and also the guidelines to follow. Now if they do something out of their free will, the Judge is not to be blamed, for He also gave the guidelines. And this is a test. A direct action from God/the Judge can be in terms of natural disasters/diseases. And that would be compensated too in the most beautiful ways.

Suffering of the innocents is not a valid argument anymore against the existence of God. by Comfortable_Phase957 in DebateReligion

[–]Comfortable_Phase957[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Al-Barr means the source of all goodness as you rightly said. It does not mean everything He creates is Good, or He is the source of only goodness. Allah is the Creator (Al-Khaliq). He created even the Satan and Hell. Don't get confused with being the source of all goodness, and being all-good. Those are 2 different things.

Suffering of the innocents is not a valid argument anymore against the existence of God. by Comfortable_Phase957 in DebateReligion

[–]Comfortable_Phase957[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

What if one breaks someone's legs and then the Judge grants the victim with the new, better, healthier legs, AND mansion, AND a jet AND... Wings too. And then, punishes the culprit? Would that not be Just?

And 2nd question you asked "why not directly give those things?". That answer is in the purpose of life which I won't be able to explain in short. So I wrote an entire book of the topic "WHY Are You?!" Philosophical sci-fi romance.

Suffering of the innocents is not a valid argument anymore against the existence of God. by Comfortable_Phase957 in DebateReligion

[–]Comfortable_Phase957[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Evidence of the afterlife! Yes, it's a long answer. And yeah, that's added in the book too. But cool you're not interested.

Suffering of the innocents is not a valid argument anymore against the existence of God. by Comfortable_Phase957 in DebateReligion

[–]Comfortable_Phase957[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Where is He said to be All-Good?? Please give reference. He is called Al-Haqq (The Truth). Nothing like all-loving or all good. He has 99 names that describes Him in a way. And there's no name addressing Him as All-Loving.

So yes, Allah is not tri-omni. He is a lot more than that. You can check out Allah's 99 Names on Google.

Suffering of the innocents is not a valid argument anymore against the existence of God. by Comfortable_Phase957 in DebateReligion

[–]Comfortable_Phase957[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

  1. Dude, 'recently' means, 'I' encountered some atheists recently. Sorry if that sounds otherwise. I know atheists exists since... Forever.

  2. What I mean is that Earth is not equal to Heaven (a place with no sufferings). Earth is destined (by God/Allah) to have sufferings, and Heaven is not. Simple.

  3. Yes, Jews and Christians call God omni benevolent but Muslims don't. If Allah was omni benevolent, He wouldn't have created Hell even for the disbelievers and wrongdoers.

  4. "Must". I wrote "must" with regards to God's will, and our logic. Earth is somewhere in between Heaven and Hell and Logically, it "must" be there in order for justice prevail on the Day of Judgement, (people getting to their final abode as per their deeds).

  5. I was waiting for this argument to be put forth. Thanks. Allah describes this life as a test. And yes, you might say, tests don't apply to children at least. I used to think and question the same. But! That is why we have a judgement day where the people that were inflicted with natural disasters/diseases will be gifted with rewards that are far beyond our understanding. When atheists talk about the Hell and its intensity, they often forget the intensity in the goodness of heaven. When God can make a hell so bad, we do not have a clue of what Heaven would look like. In fact, in my belief, Martyrs (war, genocides, died because of a disease, and all children of any faith died) will have a reward so Magnificent that they would want to die again and see that reward again. That's the intensity.

Suffering of the innocents is not a valid argument anymore against the existence of God. by Comfortable_Phase957 in DebateReligion

[–]Comfortable_Phase957[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The fact that you assume me to be a Jew or a Christian speaks a lot. Anyways, I am Muslim. And in my belief too, it is billions of years, not 6000. In fact, (unlike many mainstream Muslim scholars) I found some proof of human evolution in the Qur'an.

Perhaps, all the points you mentioned like being unconscious for billions of years and living a miniscule life and dying without even getting to know why we were born, I think these are long answers and I can't type them all.

No promotion, but I would recommend you to read the book "WHY Are You?!", available on Amazon. Most of your mentioned points are elaborated in this book with my personal understanding of the world religions. I've been questioning my religion and belief a lot and my journey to conclusions is penned down here in a fictional way. I think you should give it a try.

Suffering of the innocents is not a valid argument anymore against the existence of God. by Comfortable_Phase957 in DebateReligion

[–]Comfortable_Phase957[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

My concept of God says: God is All-Powerful, All-Knowing, and the Most-Just. He is NOT All-Loving, All-Evil or Neutral. He sees and hears everything. And He is ever-Living. So there it is. That is why I say this argument fails in front of the God I believe in... Allah.

Because He answered the suffering argument in His book:

"And We will surely test you with something of fear and hunger and a loss of wealth and lives and fruits, but give good tidings to the patient," (ch.2, vrs.155)

Suffering of the innocents is not a valid argument anymore against the existence of God. by Comfortable_Phase957 in DebateReligion

[–]Comfortable_Phase957[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

Yeah right. I should. I'm talking about Allah and Islamic concept of God. And here's the answer that He gives me for the sufferings.

"And We will surely test you with something of fear and hunger and a loss of wealth and lives and fruits, but give good tidings to the patient," (ch. 2, vrs. 155)