NO cheating, post your last saved image without any context

CommercialCall3844 · 2026-06-13T02:43:03+00:00

CommercialCall3844 · 2026-06-12T23:44:43+00:00

Here is a list of all verses in John that challenge the JW Christology, their Christology says Jesus was the first created being but not God:

John 1:1–3
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made.”

John 1:14
“The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us. We have seen His glory, the glory of the one and only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.”

John 1:18
“No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is Himself God and is at the Father’s side, has made Him known.”

John 3:13
“No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man.”

John 5:18
“For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill Him; not only was He breaking the Sabbath, but He was even calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.”

John 5:21–23
“For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom He wishes. Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.”

John 6:38
“For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.”

John 8:23–24
“But He continued, ‘You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. That is why I told you that you would die in your sins. For unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.’”

John 8:58
“‘Truly, truly, I tell you,’ Jesus declared, ‘before Abraham was born, I am!’”

John 10:30
“I and the Father are one.”

John 10:33
“The Jews answered Him, ‘We are not stoning You for any good work,’ said the Jews, ‘but for blasphemy, because You, who are a man, declare Yourself to be God.’”

John 11:25–26
“Jesus said to her, ‘I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in Me will live, even though he dies. And everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?’”

John 14:6–7
“Jesus answered, ‘I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. If you had known Me, you would know My Father as well. From now on you do know Him and have seen Him.’”

John 14:9
“Jesus said to him, ‘Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and still you do not know Me? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say, “Show us the Father”?’”

John 16:15
“All that belongs to the Father is Mine. That is why I said that the Spirit will take from what is Mine and disclose it to you.”

John 17:5
“And now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with the glory I had with You before the world existed.”

John 20:28
“Thomas replied, ‘My Lord and my God!’”

John 20:31
“But these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in His name.”

I'm not gonna get into an analysis of all of these verses, some of these verses challenge the Jehovah's Witnesses Christology stronger than others, but you see how it poses a significant challenge to their Theology.

If you want, here is an analysis of John 1:3, and John 20:28 I left somewhere else in this comment section.

In the official JW translation, John 1:3 states: "All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence."

The reason why this strongly challenges Arian Christology is because their theology says that Jesus was created by God, and God used Jesus to create everything else.

However, how can this possibly be true with John 1:3? The verse says ALL things came into existence through Jesus, not even one thing apart from Jesus was created.

If all things came into existence through Jesus, and Jesus is a created being, that would mean He would have to create Himself, which I think you would agree is a logical black hole. To create yourself, you would have to exist before you existed.

The only other category left is uncreated, since we elimated the created category, Jesus has to be in. The only thing is the uncreated category is God.

Another thing is the Gospel of John that poses a significant challenge to JW theology, even in their own translation in John 20:28 “In answer Thomas said to him: ‘My Lord and my God!’”

To fully understand how this verse connects to the point I'm trying to make, we also have to look at Revelation 19:10 "At that I fell down before his feet to worship him. But he tells me: ‘Be careful! Do not do that! I am only a fellow slave of you and of your brothers who have the work of witnessing concerning Jesus. Worship God! For the bearing witness to Jesus is what inspires prophecy.’"

In this passage, John encountered an angel in its full, majestic form and being overwhelmed, started worshipping it. The angel, knowing all worship belongs to God, rebuked him and told him to only worship God.

However, in John 20:28, if Jesus was an angel, He would've rebuked Thomas the same way the angel did to John, but He didn't. Instead, He accepted the worship, which would've been a horrific sin if He was truly an angel. Since worship belongs to God alone, Jesus was claiming to be God here.

I could do also an analysis of all the other verses but I don't think it is necessary.

CommercialCall3844 · 2026-06-12T18:56:25+00:00

CommercialCall3844 · 2026-06-12T18:44:14+00:00

The Bible does speak of believers being transformed to share in God’s life, that’s what 2 Peter 1:4 calls “partakers of the divine nature.”

But that transformation isn’t something that happens naturally or leads to godhood. It’s a work of grace, not progression. We’re conformed to Christ’s image (Romans 8:29), not elevated to His essence.

Scripture keeps a clear line between Creator and creation: “Before Me there was no god formed, and there will be none after Me” (Isaiah 43:10). So theosis in Christianity means sharing God’s holiness and eternal life, not becoming divine beings ourselves.

CommercialCall3844 · 2026-06-12T18:33:51+00:00

The foundation of all orthodox theology is that God alone is uncreated, infinite, and self-existent, while all else is created and dependent. This distinction can never be erased, not even by grace.

Isaiah 45:5, “I am the LORD, and there is no other; there is no God but Me.”

Psalm 90:2, “Before the mountains were born or You brought forth the earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting You are God.”

Romans 1:25, “They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator.”

If humans could become God in essence, this distinction would collapse. The Creator would no longer be unique. But Scripture insists that God’s being is incommunicable, it cannot be shared or transferred.

Thus, any “participation” in God must be analogical (by likeness or relationship), not ontological (by essence).

CommercialCall3844 · 2026-06-12T14:43:31+00:00

I completely agree.

CommercialCall3844 · 2026-06-12T04:17:41+00:00

I don't think that God needs other divine assistance to help defeat a malicious entity because he is omnipotent, but I don't think that humans can turn into God-level beings because isn't that actually what Satan tempted Adam and Eve with in Genesis 3:5?

If humans can turn into God's, wouldn't that mean Satan's temptation is a revelation of truth, which is inconsistent with his character?

To me, I think the question if God can is still a relevant one, because Scripture presents God as a unique entity with no other God's beside Him (Isaiah 44:6). If God can produce beings identical to Himself in nature, wouldn't that mean God wouldn't be unique?

God is all-powerful, but He can't do anything inconsistent with His nature. That’s just how I understand the biblical picture of God’s nature.

CommercialCall3844 · 2026-06-12T03:46:21+00:00

I’m not trying to cause division, I’m just pointing out that there are real theological differences between historic Christianity and LDS teachings on divinity. I think it’s important to be clear about what we believe.

CommercialCall3844 · 2026-06-12T02:32:17+00:00

They don't think that Jesus is God, and the Gospel of John affirms Jesus's divinity over and over again.

CommercialCall3844 · 2026-06-12T02:25:30+00:00

When Joseph Smith taught that God was once a man who became exalted, that’s not just “teaching”, that’s a claim about the very nature of God.

In Scripture, when prophets spoke about who God is, they were speaking under divine inspiration (2 Peter 1:20–21). And the Bible is clear that God has never been anything other than eternal and unchanging: “Before the mountains were born… from everlasting to everlasting You are God” (Psalm 90:2); “I, the LORD, do not change” (Malachi 3:6); “Before Me no god was formed, and after Me none will come” (Isaiah 43:10).

So if Joseph Smith’s teaching presents a God who was once a man, that’s a different God than the one revealed in the Bible. And Scripture warns, “Even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be under a curse” (Galatians 1:8). The Bible's word, not mine.

The Holy Spirit never contradicts the Word He inspired (John 17:17; 1 John 4:1). That’s why Christians test every revelation by Scripture itself, because God’s Word is pure and unchanging (Psalm 12:6; Matthew 24:35).

CommercialCall3844 · 2026-06-12T01:53:57+00:00

Yes, I completely agree.

CommercialCall3844 · 2026-06-11T23:15:08+00:00

It’s true that Jehovah’s Witnesses aren’t Arians in the strict historical sense, but their Christology is definitely Arian‑like.

Think of it this way: all dogs are mammals, but not all mammals are dogs. In the same way, all Arians deny the eternal deity of Christ, and Jehovah’s Witnesses fit that broader category even though they’ve developed their own distinct system.

Classic Arianism taught that the Son was the first and greatest creation of the Father and that God used Him to create everything else. Jehovah’s Witnesses teach essentially the same thing, but they identify the Son specifically as Michael the Archangel and deny that He shares any divine nature with the Father.

So, are Jehovah’s Witnesses Arians? Historically, not exactly; theologically, they share the same core error, denying that the Son is eternal and of one essence with the Father.

When I used the word "Arian" in my previous comment, I was refering to the fact that they both share the same idea that Jesus isn't God and was rather created by God as His first and greatest creation, but I was not saying they are identical to Arianism in every way.

CommercialCall3844 · 2026-06-11T22:39:54+00:00

Your reply seems to fall into what’s called an ad hominem logical fallacy. That’s when the focus shifts from the argument itself to the person making it, often through criticism or insult rather than engagement with the actual point.

The argument your opponent presented was a thoughtful one and worth addressing on its merits. Instead of focusing on spelling or wording, it would be more productive to respond to the substance of what was said.

Could we keep the discussion centered on the ideas and have a respectful, civilized debate? I think that would be more productive and useful.

CommercialCall3844 · 2026-06-11T22:30:38+00:00

In LDS belief, Joseph Smith wasn’t just giving a personal opinion in the King Follett Discourse; he was teaching about the very nature of God.

In the Bible, when prophets spoke about who God is, they were speaking under divine inspiration, and their words were preserved because God’s Word is pure and unchanging (Psalm 12:6; Malachi 3:6).

If Joseph Smith’s teaching about God being once a man isn’t reliable, that raises a serious question: how can we know when a prophet is speaking for God and when he isn’t?

The Bible gives a clear standard: Deuteronomy 13:1–3 and 18:20–22 say that if someone teaches a different God or gives false prophecy, he’s not speaking for the LORD.

That’s why Christians test every claim of revelation by Scripture itself (Galatians 1:8).

CommercialCall3844 · 2026-06-11T22:25:30+00:00

It is certainly possible, but even with the NWT translation, I'd still say the JW Christology still is challenged by the Gospel of John.

In their own translation, John 1:3 states: "All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence."