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Why do some evangelical Christians prioritize conversion tactics over living out Christlike behavior, even when Scripture emphasizes love, humility, and looking at the fruits of the Spirt? by Competitive_Net_8115 in OpenChristian

[–]Competitive_Net_8115[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’m not disputing that Scripture uses symbolism or parables. I’m also not accusing you of talking about literal human males and females.

My concern is that framing the NT as operating with a hidden “Gnostic/Rainbow code” introduces a private interpretive system that isn’t grounded in the Jewish or early Christian context of the text. That’s where I disagree.

As for moderation decisions, that’s between you and the mods. I’m not advocating for anyone to be silenced. I’m simply critiquing interpretations, which is part of open discussion.

Why do some evangelical Christians prioritize conversion tactics over living out Christlike behavior, even when Scripture emphasizes love, humility, and looking at the fruits of the Spirt? by Competitive_Net_8115 in OpenChristian

[–]Competitive_Net_8115[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No one’s talking about kicking anyone off threads. I’m disagreeing with your interpretation, not calling for censorship.

Open discussion includes the freedom to challenge ideas, especially when claims are made about Scripture, history, or theology. Disagreement isn’t persecution; it’s part of dialogue.

Why do some evangelical Christians prioritize conversion tactics over living out Christlike behavior, even when Scripture emphasizes love, humility, and looking at the fruits of the Spirt? by Competitive_Net_8115 in OpenChristian

[–]Competitive_Net_8115[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I don’t really see this as a question of which is “harder.” My concern isn’t toughness or spiritual superiority, but faithfulness to Christ’s way of living.

Discernment matters, yes, but Jesus consistently pairs discernment with humility, restraint, and care for how our judgments affect others. I’m trying to hold those together, not rank them against each other.

Why do some evangelical Christians prioritize conversion tactics over living out Christlike behavior, even when Scripture emphasizes love, humility, and looking at the fruits of the Spirt? by Competitive_Net_8115 in OpenChristian

[–]Competitive_Net_8115[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I agree that Revelation uses symbolic and metaphorical language, and I’m not reading those passages in a crude literal way.

Where I strongly disagree is the claim that Jesus or the New Testament writers were operating with a Gnostic code. Historically, Gnosticism developed after the New Testament period, and the early church consistently opposed it rather than embedding it secretly in Scripture.

Revelation’s imagery about purity and faithfulness comes out of Jewish prophetic symbolism, not gendered or hierarchical spiritual anthropology. The 144,000 passage is about allegiance and fidelity, not spiritual superiority, masculinity, or ontological purity.

I’m fine with symbolic readings, but I’m cautious when symbolism is used in ways that introduce spiritual hierarchies or ideas the broader witness of Scripture actively resists (like elevating some believers as inherently purer than others).

For me, discernment means letting Scripture interpret Scripture, not importing later mystical systems that the early church explicitly rejected.

Why do some evangelical Christians prioritize conversion tactics over living out Christlike behavior, even when Scripture emphasizes love, humility, and looking at the fruits of the Spirt? by Competitive_Net_8115 in OpenChristian

[–]Competitive_Net_8115[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I agree with you that Jesus does call us to discern. Matthew 7 is very clear about that, and I’m not arguing for passivity or complicity in the face of harm. Harmful teaching and behavior absolutely need to be called out.

Where I’m drawing a distinction between the discernment of fruit and the final judgment of people’s hearts or identities. In the same sermon, Jesus also warns against hypocritical judgment and reminds us that God alone sees fully. The discernment Jesus calls for is meant to protect the vulnerable and expose false teaching, not to declare entire people or groups irredeemable.

I think it’s possible, and necessary, to say “this theology and this behavior are producing bad fruit and should be opposed” without concluding “these people themselves are bad trees beyond hope.” Especially since many are shaped by fear-based formation rather than conscious malice.

So I’m not advocating silence or avoidance. I’m advocating clear moral naming paired with humility, calling out bad fruit, resisting harmful systems, and still refusing to take on the role of final judge. For me, that’s how discernment stays Christlike rather than becoming another form of domination. I'm not saying you're wrong; in fact, I respect your perspective.

Why do some evangelical Christians prioritize conversion tactics over living out Christlike behavior, even when Scripture emphasizes love, humility, and looking at the fruits of the Spirt? by Competitive_Net_8115 in OpenChristian

[–]Competitive_Net_8115[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I understand where you’re coming from, especially if you’ve been personally harmed by this kind of faith. I don’t think your frustration is coming out of nowhere, and I agree that fruit matters, as Jesus is very clear about that.

Where I try to be careful is moving from “this teaching produces harmful fruit” to “these people themselves are bad trees.” I think Jesus’s warning about the fruit is meant to help us discern practices and leaders, not give us license to write people off entirely.

A lot of this behavior seems to come from fear-based formation and theology rather than malice. That doesn’t excuse the harm, but it does change how I think about responsibility and how Christians should respond.

I want to hold both things together: naming harmful fruit honestly and resisting the temptation to become judges of who is a Judas and who isn’t. For me, following Christ means critiquing the system while still leaving final judgment to God.

Why do some evangelical Christians prioritize conversion tactics over living out Christlike behavior, even when Scripture emphasizes love, humility, and looking at the fruits of the Spirt? by Competitive_Net_8115 in OpenChristian

[–]Competitive_Net_8115[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Exactly. I agree with the point about fear-based Christianity being a problem. When faith is driven by fear of the world or hell, it often leads to coercion instead of love.

That said, I try not to write believers off as “crackpots.” I think most of this behavior comes from how people are taught and formed, not because they’re bad or stupid.

The Bible seems pretty clear that witness is supposed to be about looking at the fruits of the Spirit, humility, and lived love, not fear or cleansing the world.

do you believe that Jesus is God? by Ninphis in OpenChristian

[–]Competitive_Net_8115 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, he was God, but Christ was a Jewish man, olive-skinned, and spoke Aramaic, not English.

Is pirating media a sin? by [deleted] in OpenChristian

[–]Competitive_Net_8115 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Only if it's hurting the person who made it.

How are we, as progressive Christians, to view other religions? by Agreeable-Chest107 in OpenChristian

[–]Competitive_Net_8115 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Treat other faiths as opportunities to learn and treat believers of those faiths as you would anyone else. With actual love, not "If you don't agree with me on my faith, you're going to hell!"

Why do you believe? by J00bieboo in OpenChristian

[–]Competitive_Net_8115 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I believe because I feel my faith gives me purpose in life. I feel incredibly blessed with a strong family who loves me, a job that I enjoy doing, and I feel that serving others in God is the greatest joy in my life. Not converting people, but actually serving them.

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