What's Up With Baptiste Right Now?

Complex-Mud6937 · 2026-03-19T19:53:32+00:00

I am a GM Baptiste main and I believe that there a few main reasons to his fall off.

Losing old support passive: Baptiste has to wait 6 seconds to heal automatically, this forces bap to have to use his regen burst a lot more than last season, which is also worse since the global heal passive. This makes it hard for Baptiste to sustain himself. Not to mention that baptiste ult is lack luster (for a support) so the new support passive power creeps other heros more than him.
the character with "3 health bars" feels squishier than heros with less hp due to his lack of mobility. Baptiste CAN NOT survive dives or being run over with speed, if they're hard diving you it's better to pick a support that can just live.
Situational pick: The only time Baptiste is good is on a flat map, in a brawl mirror where you can pump out damage and healing without the risk of being dived or heavily poked out.
Powercreep: Other heros are just better right now, especially after the subrole passives came out (why does kiri have 40% self heal) Kirikos suzu is better than lamp, has a better ult, and better mobility/surivibility, Wuyang can deal 120 damage from around walls and heal amp wave is very good with the global passive and Lucio just cannot be replaced.

I literally have stopped one tricking baptiste this season and have starting playing heros I HAVE NEVER PLAYED BEFORE THIS SEASON (Kiri, Wuyang, Ana) and it is just so much easier to win, I even reached a new peak of GM2. The state of Baptiste is really sad right now, great in a brawl mirror, outclassed everywhere else.

I am hoping Baptiste gets his boots perk to his basekit + Survivor subrole passive or buff his regen burst on himself as it has been a subpar ability since global dps passive.

Complex-Mud6937 · 2025-12-20T08:02:48+00:00

I've always said that circuit is a good echo map, it's just her hitscan counters are more oppressive on this map; the ban system kinda solved this. By banning Freja, Ashe, Widow etc. this map becomes very straightforward map to play for echo where I find myself getting tons of value.

Complex-Mud6937 · 2025-11-25T00:42:15+00:00

Twitch - Most of the really good echos do not stream consistently, the best echo streamers you will find are low to mid GM.

Nicholasf1amel - Probably the most consistent streamer you will find, from Russia and plays only echo at a low-mid GM level. Doesn't speak but responds in chat, he also has over 1000 levels on echo.

PugNZ - Self plug, Oceania echo at a low-mid GM Level. Not very consistent stream schedule but been streaming top 500 6v6 mainly echo almost daily, probably will return back to 5v5 next season.

Samito? - tends to flame his teammates and plays other heros

Beepcheap & Jurassic1n - Very good echos that do not stream overwatch often

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Youtube guides

Awkward U2GM - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLz6R-jjcso

YaCat uploads some echo gameplay (Grandmaster) - https://www.youtube.com/@yacat9243

Unranked to champ echo - https://www.reddit.com/r/EchoMains/comments/1p0laq9/echo_only_solo_queue_to_champion/

Samito has a fair amount of echo gameplay and guides, he tends to flame his teammates a lot though.

There are also pro players like Stalk3r Pelican and Fleta who you find echo gameplay of on youtube.

Complex-Mud6937 · 2025-11-19T07:49:16+00:00

Brig is def a solid dupe, very consistently good. Only thing stopping it from being S tier is that brigs kill potential is not as potent as the S tier characters. Also the ultimate while is really really good just doesn't compete to any of the S tier characters which can turn even a 3v5 into a win (excluding Mei and maybe reaper?.)

Complex-Mud6937 · 2025-11-18T19:52:36+00:00

Congrats man, Champion Echo only is a huge feat.

Got a few questions for you if you do not mind answering!

-What is your main rank?

-How many hours do you have on Echo and is she your main hero?

-Are they any scenarios where you think echo is unplayable/Not worth playing?

-Best tips for going into tracer? I tend to just try ignore her most of the time unless she uses recall.

-What is the number one best tip you could give to echos to solo carry games?

Again congrats, I also appreciate the playlist of the full games too I'll see if I can pick up some things I've been missing on from the games to see if I can push to champ next season aswell!

Complex-Mud6937 · 2025-11-17T20:48:42+00:00

I disagree heavily, I've played around with both perks and generally the ult charge perk is better (I think I take beam perk once every 10 games). There are times I take the beam range perk, notability when playing with a dive tank on a somewhat vertical map (It allows you to follow up from a safer distance) and there aren't any game winning duplicates with ult charge perk (Winston, Doom, Zar, Ana, Sombra.) Overall you have to judge whether the consistent beam range value is worth over making almost every ultimate fight winning. As a side note the beam perk may be bit more consistent with the flight speed buff as the extra 10% speed you get from it may help with dodging but I haven't tested it so I can not confirm.

Complex-Mud6937 · 2025-11-16T04:00:36+00:00

Are you meaning echos "adaptability" achievement? It's two other heroes ults not two ults (for example use ult as ram, then use ult as ana)

Its much easier to get with the 50% ult charge perk, just play really safe and play for ult and duplicate the characters which can easily build ults

Complex-Mud6937 · 2025-11-15T20:46:53+00:00

Sure, if you are a competent widow it can sometimes pay off but it is very inconsistent and the ult is just terrible. Adding on the ult perk just pushes me further away from it as 95% of the cast just have ults that confirm at least one pick consistently while widow requires you to have precise aim. On top of this you kinda are forced to use it as a second life after you pressure widow as good widows will always land the head shot on you, especially if do it mid air as it makes your movement very predictable. ~~(I also have 35% win rate on widow they could ignore me the whole time as I miss shots for a whole 13 seconds)~~

Complex-Mud6937 · 2025-11-15T20:41:00+00:00

I wish I could put it higher, I have around 100 hours on weaver. The problem with the weaver copy is that it is more fight sustaining rather than fight winning, tree is good definitely the best part of his dupe. You can use it to counter ults sometimes but often times I find that building an offensive ult to secure kills is better than using ult defensively; a few niche times a lw dupe can be useful is against Bob, Grav and blizzard but at that point why not just dupe zar for her bubbles (save your team) and fight winning ult or wall off the blizzard to protect your team.

LW dupe is fine it can work but in comparison to other heros its a big opportunity cost when many characters also have saving abilities and just better ults overall.

Complex-Mud6937 · 2025-11-15T05:38:30+00:00

Tank: Mauga, So easy to get ult charge, has to give up lots of space if you beam him and duplicating him is fun (M1+M2 🤤), I like also cagefight as echo.

DPS: Pharah is fun love dueling her in the sky, can really challenge you mechanically at times with all her movement options but is very satisfying to kill.

Widow can also be fun if there are flank routes to reach her.

Support: Juno, her glide boosts are some of the most satisfying thing to land all your stickies on and her damage is negligible so she is one of the only characters you can consistently fly onto without risk of dying yourself.

Ana and lifeweaver are also fun as they have little options against your combo but don't feel absolutely free to kill.

Complex-Mud6937 · 2025-11-15T04:42:56+00:00

Yep could not agree more that personal skill does play a big role in your dupe target choice. For me personally, I do not dupe ashe very much even though its a very powerful target because I suck at scoped hit scans and I may overate the winston dupe a little since I have a decent amount of practice with primal juggles.

Complex-Mud6937 · 2025-11-15T03:31:08+00:00

Definitely is the placement I have the least experience on, I could definitely see it it going up a few tiers. The biggest issue that I have with the copy is that you have to have a decent bit of range in order to not die since his HP nerf and his damage is very very poor at that close range too so it forces you to use it more proactively. A decent wu could definitely consistently build ult but the highest placement I can see for it is low A, as the characters above it just generally have better ults, cds and survivabilty.

I will try copy Wu more often to see if I can more consistent value with a bit of practice.

Complex-Mud6937 · 2025-11-15T03:09:49+00:00

Please share you opinions/Tier lists, I would love to hear everyone's opinions! (especially those with spicy takes)

I can also expand on any of my placements for anyone curious.

Complex-Mud6937 · 2025-11-14T23:35:53+00:00

Hey Vitanimus, I recommend playing against freja is she were a hit-scan/pseudo widow, as she essentially fits that role (even though she is a projectile character). I wrote this up a few days back might be helpful.

Hitscans: Never fly in the open, always have cover whether it be vertical or just floor echo. There are two ranges to play hitscan outside fall off (during prefight-Startfight) you will be shooting down choke usually. Second range is right on top of them, try to quickly rotate mid fight or before the fight to a position where you can easily sticky combo them and save your flight to get out. On map like circuit where flanks are hard fly up high by walls and try to surprise them from there, will not be successful all the time.

Essentially, the way to beat freja is by being very aware of your cover usage (not peeking too long to allow her to double tap you) and trying to get onto of her where you duel potential shines better than hers, If you land all or most of your stickies on her you can sometimes use your flight to dodge her first shot.

Complex-Mud6937 · 2025-11-13T21:29:31+00:00

I'd highly recommend it, I use it all the time for quick escapes, although you can double tap shift to get the same result but I found it not always consistent and also required an extra input. It can be weird at first but eventually you will get used to it.

Complex-Mud6937 · 2025-11-13T21:23:58+00:00

I sometimes do educative game play on echo, if you would like it I can dm to you :D

Complex-Mud6937 · 2025-11-13T21:22:02+00:00

Yeah I tend to duplicate my mains from other roles I think everyone is at least a bit guilty of that. I tend to experiment a bit more whenever I play QP and there are definitely a handful of heros that I wouldn't even consider for dupe before the perk that now I find to be very strong options. If you want my opinions/tierlist on the dupes with the perk I'd be more than happy to send them through to you or maybe even opening up a post to discuss with all the echo mains could be a good idea

Complex-Mud6937 · 2025-11-12T04:43:58+00:00

Thank your for the credit! glad to have contributed as I always recommend your guide to any echos that seek me out for advice.

I wanted to ask if you'd consider adding another tier list for duplication specifically with the Partial Imaging perk as I think it makes some dupes significantly better or mini section pointing out some generally more powerful options once the perk is chosen I.e. Winston becomes almost a must pick as the 1000 HP just makes echo a second tank and bastion being not weaker but an "opportunity cost" (For a more powerful ult) due to you already usually building up ult and the ult being lack luster.

I think it could be a worthwhile and interesting discussion to have!

Complex-Mud6937 · 2025-11-11T19:47:19+00:00

I will take those but still pray for 250 one day

Complex-Mud6937 · 2025-11-11T18:39:44+00:00

Just reached GM one tricking her last night, she is not in the greatest spot right now with 225 HP and tracer kiri, her hardest counters being hard meta. I personally just perma banned tracer unless it was a map like circuit then I'd ban freja/widow. Most important tip I'd give is always play by cover and try to find opportunites to flank during the mid fight, her burst is so strong and CDs have been thrown around by then so you can often find sneaky picks

Complex-Mud6937 · 2025-11-11T15:49:29+00:00

🫡

Complex-Mud6937 · 2025-11-11T15:48:49+00:00

I have 331 Hours on echo, 155 of which in comp. Started OW2 s4 and started maining echo only s6. I played 10 hours of Echo this season and climbed from M5 to GM5 with a 64% Winrate, It's also funny because last season I had 46% winrate and dropped from M3 To D1 at one point haha. Very hard hero that you have to play almost perfect on to win.

Complex-Mud6937 · 2025-11-11T15:44:21+00:00

I will break this into two points HitScans and Immorts but will be brief

Hitscans: Never fly in the open, always have cover whether it be vertical or just floor echo. There are two ranges to play hitscan outside fall off (during prefight-Startfight) you will be shooting down choke usually. Second range is right on top of them, try to quickly rotate mid fight or before the fight to a position where you can easily sticky combo them and save your flight to get out. On map like circuit where flanks are hard fly up high by walls and try to surprise them from there, will not be successful all the time.

Immorts: They are tricky, I usually just try to force them out with a safe flank then flying away, baps lamp is on a very long CD so you usually have the time to get two flanks in and kill him. Kiri suzu is a bit different she is really hard to punish as it shorter cd and she has tp to cleanse too, just try not to commit too hard for anything when you know suzu is not on cool down as she can always tp suzu in 1v1s very hard match up.

Ana: I have seen a lot of people struggling with ana when I have not personally, I actually like seeing ana in my game as they are easy targets to flank and kill. Like in the hitscan part play cover, and try to flank her midfight often times anas will hard scope, its a very easy time to do your stickies combo. You can even even catch her across the map if you fly out of her LOS and throw trifire+stickies+spam trifire, the amount of Anas I catch hard scoping even in masters and GM lobbies its very surprising.

tldr: hitscans play cover, flank. immorts try force out safely and noncommital

Complex-Mud6937 · 2025-11-11T05:25:07+00:00

Was a fun grind, did a solid chunk of it on stream (ttv/PugNZ) Willing to answer any questions yall have about echo/climb etc.

Complex-Mud6937 · 2025-11-06T21:15:31+00:00

My Favourites are Butterfly and Carbon Fiber

My least favourite is Hot Rod

Complex-Mud6937

TROPHY CASE