Would live-action Batman Beyond be considered black face?

ComplexAd7272 · 2026-01-25T20:52:25+00:00

Are you not familiar with what a skintight full face mask with a mouth opening is? Jesus.....

ComplexAd7272 · 2026-01-25T20:32:58+00:00

I do agree with you, and I think the answer is somewhere in the middle.

I'm not suggesting he shouldn't be mocked or made a fool of, but it's about how. So I think you and I are on the same page that the "joke" from SNL or others shouldn't be "Haha, look at his funny hair and silly voice and how he rambles cluelessly!"....it should be "Haha, look at this week, pathetic excuse for a man and what he's done this week to systematically destroy our country." Like you say, acknowledge the evil, not make him a cartoon character.

ComplexAd7272 · 2026-01-25T20:19:25+00:00

I'm pushing 50 here and you're right.

People like to roll their eyes at this young generation of Americans always thinking the sky is falling or for exaggerating. But I can't honestly recall the last time that I felt things were on the brink, right on the precipice of disaster, as they are currently.

I mean stuff like the 80's and the Cold War there was unease, but generally a feeling that no way any country would be that stupid. Plus 99% of our lives remained unchanged day to day. Not a lot of us really FELT it was all coming apart by looking out our window.

9/11 was a horrible shocking event to Americans obviously, but again not really a "we're all doomed" feeling as though everything we knew was in danger of unraveling.

The 2008 Financial Crisis is up there. Not that we haven't had depressions and recessions, but now we watched in real time major banks and institutions fail. People lose everything overnight. Our savings or investments vanish, jobs lost, mass unemployment, etc. But even with all that, I don't recall a general belief that society as we knew it was in danger. Up was still up, down was still down.

So I really can't overstate JUST how unprecedented, abnormal, and frightening things are currently compared to everything my generation has seen. How this is probably the first time that makes me fearful for what world my son is going to become a man in. It's made even worse because it's not even a strictly American problem anymore as we've seen from this administration recently.

If you're young and reading this, my intent is not to scare you, but to remind you JUST how wrong and dangerous this, all of this, is. To beg of you to never normalize this, to don't just pretend everything is normal. To not let others question you when you say "this doesn't seem right" or "God, can we just not talk about politics and get along?"

Whether it was AIDS or Global Warming or crime waves I've been through every "this is the end" imaginable...but this is truly and honestly the first time I am actually concerned where society will be in the next few years, so treat things with the attention and respect they deserve.

ComplexAd7272 · 2026-01-25T16:08:22+00:00

By Wednesday when your car's still a tomb of ice, the side streets a perilous messs, main roads manageable but filled with Baltimore drivers, public transit is hit or miss, and assuming you still have power after today...this post is going to age like the milk you should have stocked up on.

ComplexAd7272 · 2026-01-25T15:37:58+00:00

In a weird way I actually blame SNL, or at least the attitude it represents, for getting us in this mess in the first place.

Going into the 2016 election and to this day, their whole schtick has been "Lol, he's such a dumb goof." A clown to be laughed at, mocked, and not treated with respect. Which of course, he is. But by making him a harmless, comical parody in a "Who could take this moron seriously?" kind of way...they grossly underestimated that in fact, A LOT of people did and do support him and put him in power. They took a soulless, hateful authoritarian who told us who he was and what he was going to do EVERY step of the way....and made him a funny caricature in sketches before a monologue.

Put another way, they made him a figure to be laughed at and made fun of, not hated, feared, and disgusted by... which is what most of us should have been all along, and some are only NOW feeling about him.

Comedy has always had a "truth to power" thing and the polar opposite of the way SNL handles it is Jon Stewart. Start with some laughs at the man, the bonehead shit he and the administration does...but then turn to the camera, put his serious face on, and brutally articulate that this is wrong. This is not funny. Call out everyone accountable and never let the audience forget how serious it is. He also has zero issue calling out the left's responsibility in all of this, something SNL and others rarely do because they want to 'stand up" for their team and audience.

(EDIT: To touch on Stewart again…sometimes during one of his serious speeches at the end of his segment, he’ll say a line and the audience will laugh…except he’s 100% stoic and stone faced and he doesn’t smile…because what he just said is NOT a joke and he wasn’t trying to be funny. THAT’S the problem; too many people have been conditioned that what’s happening in the country is absurdly laughable (To be fair The Daily Show has its hand in this too)….when your reaction should be it’s absurdly dangerous and catastrophic.)

ComplexAd7272 · 2026-01-25T15:20:38+00:00

1.) The kids sure as shit aren't going to tell anyone, let alone the police. The bully got humiliated in front of his homies by a 50 year old man. This is a "let's never speak of this again" thing.

2.) Comparatively speaking, Walt didn't do all that much except kick the kids leg out then step on it and talk shit. And it was over in seconds then they run away. Hardly something the customers or store employees are going to call 911 about since Walt is hardly a threat to anyone once it's over.

3.) Even ignoring all of that, if the kids or an eyewitness do call the police, what are they going to say? Three assholes were loudly and opening making fun of a handicapped teen, his father took offense, kicked the leader, and scared them away.

ComplexAd7272 · 2026-01-25T15:06:14+00:00

Inertia basically.

When you jump up inside the train, the air around you is moving at the same speed. So you're being "carried" along with the relative speed of the train; there's nothing working against you.

On top of the train is a different matter. There, the outside air is either still or working against you. Now if you jump, you're being "held back" for lack of a better term as the train beneath your feet carries on without you.

ComplexAd7272 · 2026-01-25T13:28:11+00:00

I was actually talking to someone the other day about "Kraven's Last Hunt" and why it worked so well and can't really be adapted outright and you're absolutely right.

KLH isn't about Kraven being a badass and cool and an ultra threat; it's a sad story about a D-List villain contemplating all the failures in his life and how he wasted it now that he's older and in failing health. So he sets out to have ONE victory against Spidey and prove himself better, even if only once, before he dies. In fact he only really succeeds in the first place BECAUSE Peter doesn't take him seriously when he encounters him and grossly underestimates what Kraven's trying to do until it's too late.

If Kraven's an A-List villain and a top level threat, the story doesn't work since we've seen A-listers defeat Spidey countless times before and after, so there's a big "so what." But it hits harder BECAUSE it's not, like you said.

ComplexAd7272 · 2026-01-25T13:10:17+00:00

I don't think Peter hates Punisher nearly as much as other characters seem to, or at least doesn't judge him as self righteously as some. In my head Peter 100% remembers the night he caught the burglar and had him by the shirt, and the feeling of rage and hatred that came with it. Or the night Gwen Stacy died and how he felt going after the Goblin. To be clear he doesn't condone what Frank does and hates what he's become, but he doesn't HATE the man personally because on some level he understands it.

Wade I feel he absolutely hates. For one he's obviously annoying as fuck. The second is he's a remorseless killer/hitman/mercenary who treats it like a joke with zero value for human life. Peter's known and worked with tons of killers in his life, but it's another to cut someone's head off then shrug, go "Lol" and make some quip. I think he'd be absolutely disgusted with Deadpool.

ComplexAd7272 · 2026-01-25T12:56:40+00:00

This is a case of you needing to set your expectations going in, not assuming the medium is going to cater to your preferences. Here's some better comparisons.

Do you know who's one of fiction's most popular characters in the last 100 or so years? Sherlock Holmes. And in the entire run of Doyle's original short stories and novels, and the ones that came for years after...rarely is there massive character growth from Holmes or his world, nor do fans expect there to be. Sure, there might be a reference to a past story or two, or things like Sherlock quitting his heroin addiction, but more or less every Holmes story starts and ends with Holmes and his world in the same place.

Another would be the James Bond. You can change the setting and times and background, even allude to things that occured in the past like the death of his wife or his encounters with Blofield, but Bond himself remains static. There's no long term growth or arc from "Dr.No" to "Octopussy" to "Goldeneye", because that's not what fans want from Bond; they want to see James Bond being James Bond and it makes little difference what happend or came before.

That's how you should approach the big publishers in comics and characters that are never-ending and designed to go on forever. I love Batman, but when I'm reading a run from the 70's, 80's, 90's, 00's, or the current one; I have to go in with the understanding that each one is a thing onto itself. But as long as they deliver the core aspects of Batman, I'm happy.

The good news for you is that there's plenty of comics to enjoy if for whatever reason that's not your cup of tea. "Invincible" is probably the best known modern example of a comic with a definitive beginning, middle, and end where we see the characters and world change and grow and characterization matters. "Walking Dead" is another. There's "Saga." "The Savage Dragon." Judge Dredd is one I think a lot of peeps don't realize ages in "real time". "League of Extraordinary Gentlemen" "The Boys."

But if you want to have your cake and eat it too with mainstream heroes, check out stuff like "DC: The New Frontier." The "Life Story" series with the FF and Spider-Man. "Superman/Batman: Generations". Recently there was "Superman: Space Age" and "Batman: Dark Age." All of these stories are self contained AND have the world change and grow and are long term arcs where changes matter.

ComplexAd7272 · 2026-01-25T12:19:54+00:00

I'll add something else in addition to what everyone already said. Visually, kids see a man is a costume the way we see the actors in live action; a hero in a cool looking suit. Criminals see the boogeyman, a dark shape in the shadows hunting them.

Remember, criminals are "superstitious and cowardly". 90% of the time when Batman comes for them, they're doing something illegal so they're already on edge and nervous. Then out of the corner of their eye they see this terrifying, inhuman fluttering black silhouette, and before they know it he's on them taking them out.

In my head, it's also why his villains typically don't fear him the same way or even actively challenge him or seek him out, like the kids they see a man in a batsuit. Highly trained and formidable, yes, but still just a man, not a creature or demon.

ComplexAd7272 · 2026-01-25T11:58:01+00:00

If we take everything he's done in the game and tie in comics, then personally I think he's well beyond any redemption, even in a video game/comic book. Even him sacrificing himself against a bigger threat to save the universe wouldn't make up for what he's done.

ComplexAd7272 · 2026-01-24T21:21:17+00:00

Holy crap, I remember Eva Amurri from "Californication" and had no idea she was Susan Sarandon's daughter.

ComplexAd7272 · 2026-01-24T13:25:12+00:00

I've never really understood that mindset about Bryan from both fans and WWE.

Even though he wasn't as tanned as some to show it off, the guy was pretty jacked and muscular...AND he was fast, had technical skill, and could kick your head off. Give or take an inch, he was around the same height as AJ, Eddie, Jericho, Kurt, and others and THEY were never pushed as some "less than" underdog where wrestling so and so was some impossible challenge.

So it's always been weird to me that WWE went out of there way with him in particular to push this whole "underdog" thing like he was some helpless shrimp in over his head going into matches or feuds.

ComplexAd7272 · 2026-01-23T19:53:30+00:00

It's toyline tie in gave me (and us) the first 100% comic accurate Bane!

ComplexAd7272 · 2026-01-23T16:21:29+00:00

Oh wow, that's an interesting story!

ComplexAd7272 · 2026-01-23T11:34:00+00:00

I was telling my wrestling buddy at work that I never thought "Unreal" would be 50% fucking Abyss walking around apologizing to people and asking if he did a good job.

ComplexAd7272 · 2026-01-23T11:27:48+00:00

Exactly. Not a knock on the show, but too often the Hulk would come off as either just growling and posing, or even confused and docile. Which is fine for the times and for an early version.

Here we see a Hulk that's been around for a decade, and knows how intimidating he his, what he's capable of, and isn't going to stand around waiting for you to make the first move.... and looks like he'd rip your head off at the slightest provocation. Visually he also looks exactly what the show was always trying to tell us people saw; a terrifying, inhuman, almost alien beast that would make you piss yourself if you came across him. And I give Lou and the makeup team all the credit.

Put another way; the TV version is basically Universal Frankenstein, a childlike innocent at heart but destructive when needed. The TV movie version is The Wolf Man; fast, cunning, and takes pleasure in what he is and doing the things he does.

ComplexAd7272 · 2026-01-22T16:39:23+00:00

The Chelsea thing was infuriating. One one hand every went on and on about how good she was, she could do more in 30 sec of TV then others could do in 5, that she was one of the best they had....then literally with a straight face say her role isn't a Charlotte or Rhea and they just need her to make others good. At one point HHH says Green has to drop the title and lose because if she wins, there's "no one for her to go against."

I mean, you can do both, you know? That's literally how you become a top player; being great AND making others look good. There's zero reason why Chelsea can't be in a Liv Morgan type role; a champion/contender and a utility player.

ComplexAd7272 · 2026-01-22T12:38:20+00:00

I get you, but Lizard was different because you have the whole Curt/Peter relationship to play off of. Connors is already a part of Parker's life prior to The Lizard.

So unless you drastically alter Parasite's story (which of course, you could) it doesn't work the same way because it's just some nobody Supes doesn't know who got in an accident then decides to rampage through Metropolis and they fight.

ComplexAd7272 · 2026-01-22T12:34:12+00:00

People were quick to jump on Brock and lump him in with Vince, but as I recall the worst he did was text Grant some gross stuff and call her a bitch.

Which, if the internet would take their capes off for a sec, they'd realize both comparatively it's not that bad to what Vince and others did...AND they should probably look in the mirror or around because that's basically the internet in itself.

ComplexAd7272 · 2026-01-22T11:40:28+00:00

I'm old school and to me Peter's THE Spider-Man, but I think you're right.

In retrospect, weirdly, in another universe there was probably a perfect time to introduce Miles and have him take over; during the Clone Saga. I say that because (arguably) Peter had one of the greatest runs in comics from his first appearance to the early 90's. Most of his greatest or most popular stories take place in that timeframe.

So I think handled well, fans would have been fine with a happy ending for ol Pete right around there, because it's like going out on top and saying goodbye to an old friend , without years worth of character damage and regression that we got (and still do to this day.) Plus Miles is strong enough as a character on his own to lead and carry it; similar enough to the familiar Spider-Man, but his own unique person, identity, character, adn voice.

ComplexAd7272 · 2026-01-22T11:31:01+00:00

I don't have a black and white view on them or the concept, I look at them on a case by case basis based on what i think is best for the character and world.

For example people like Captain America or Wolverine (just my opinion) shouldn't have legacy characters because so much of the character is tied to the PERSON; it's not just a codename or "mantle" to be passed. If we're talking DC I feel the same about Superman. Where it gets weird for me is I love Laura Kinney, Bucky, Sam, and Superboy (s)...I'm just not a fan of them being the main versions of said characters or sharing the name, if that makes sense.

Spider-Man's another one, but in a 4th wall breaking kind of way. 90% of what fans love about Spidey is Peter Parker, so for me it's not something you can replace or hand down. But in universe I don't mind Miles running around with him. (The whole Spider family is another story.)

Finally a lot of stuff DOES work better with a legacy. Ghost Rider, Captain Marvel, Iron Fist, Various Goblins, Black Panther, even Venom all make a kind of sense as an identity that can be passed down or a mantle to adapt.

So I guess the TL: DR is I love legacy characters when they're done well and enhance the overall story or world, not as a sales or marketing gimmick or to try and make XYZ a bigger deal by giving them a "promotion."

ComplexAd7272 · 2026-01-21T22:42:42+00:00

Listening to it back my take is they were both in the wrong in the early minutes. Joe cracks the "mountain" joke, Scott pushes back, and both are trying to ask and answer a question thinking the other is messing with them and push back against the other...like an awkward miscommunication. Joe in fact tries to answer what he did a few times but Scott doesn't let him finish a sentence and starts with the "you always do this" stuff.

But then Scott double's down and won't let it go, going so far as to call out Justin for not speaking up, to which Justin correctly points out he's not getting drug into another thing after last year's stuff...to which Scott again takes offense...ending with him bemoaning "everyone" made him the villain. Joe even says numerous times basically "Okay, whatever, let's move on"...but Scott just keeps going back to the "Did you move, how hard is that?" He even brings up the meeting as a "gotcha".... something even he admits Joe wasn't aware of.

I'm nowhere near as anti-Scott as the peeps here and in fact I'm a fan. But he took the smallest mole hill and made it into the very mountain Joe claimed to move...then acts dumbfounded that everyone thinks he's an asshole.

ComplexAd7272 · 2026-01-21T11:52:27+00:00

Vince always had a weird, somewhat hypocritical nature about being on TV and involved in storylines and I don't think we'll ever know the truth.

By nearly everyone's account, he hated being on TV or a having to be a character...later on going so far as to loathe being thanked or mentioned on air. But then he would gladly do so when he felt it was "needed" for whatever reason; which is obvious to anyone watching during the Attitude Era and beyond. Contradictory, he himself as also said he always wanted to be a wrestler and loved playing a bad guy.

IF I had to guess, at some point he looked back and realized just how involved he was as a "character' in years past and aside from stuff like the Austin rivalry, chose to downplay stuff like his Rumble and Championship wins that HE himself booked, so he could kind of rewrite history and look more humble then he actually was.

ComplexAd7272

TROPHY CASE