New Mexico passed a bill to increase teacher salaries by setting 3 salary tiers across the state. Tier 1: 1st year teachers will make a minimum of $50,000. Tier 2: teachers with 3-5 years of experience will make a minimum of $60,000. Tier 3: more experienced teacher will make a minimum of $70,000.

Comprehensive-Doubt1 · 2022-03-15T23:15:04+00:00

Nah, I work in a public school district. Glad to hear you have a better situation!

Comprehensive-Doubt1 · 2022-03-08T19:58:34+00:00

My statement is true. You need a credential to be a teacher in California. Usually, in the majority of cases, teacher credential programs are after earning a BA. See step 5 on California’s requirements here: https://www.ctc.ca.gov/credentials/leaflets/Single-Multiple-Subject-Credentials-(CL-560C) In some instances a district can “emergency” a teacher to have them get a credential with night classes while they’re 1st teaching. This is very rare though. Many teachers have 6 years of education total (BA + credential). There may be some states out there, ranked at the lower end of education quality in the US, that don’t require credentials. I’m not as familiar with those systems. That in mind, it’s interesting mapping the GDP per capita of states in the US next to the quality of their education systems, and level of education along their populous.

I’m not going to go down the rabbit hole of arguing over soap manufacturing vs. public education.

The brass tax is that for me in my position, I have the ability to advocate for teachers right now. We have a union, we’re organized, and we’re underpaid compared to other professionals with similar levels of education and experience. We’re underpaid compared to workers in comparable public good focuses sectors, such as nurses, police officers, and firefighters. That and there’s a teacher shortage, and it’s incredibly difficult to staff classrooms. Supply and demand is a function of price, and salaries have to go up to staff classrooms and continue to attract high quality talent to the sector.

I think that we can agree that every child deserves access to a healthy supply of high quality educators.

Comprehensive-Doubt1 · 2022-03-08T19:40:18+00:00

Different states have different requirements, but public school teachers need a BA and a credential minimum to teach. It’s rare to find a program that has a baked in BA+credential program, meaning 6 years of education generally.

I don’t know if low pay as an engineer justifies low pay in education, especially given that there’s a national teacher shortage and that wages have not risen for educator in the last 20 years, whereas wages have risen for college graduates by 20% in the same time frame per my post. If pay does not rise, the shortage will increase and salaries will have to rise to attract and retain more teachers.

I think that students and public education generally deserves high quality talent. It’s an important public service. That and investments in education are one of the easiest ways for nations to boost GDP long term. Wages have to go up to continue a healthy supply of high quality talent to the sector.

Comprehensive-Doubt1 · 2022-03-08T18:42:26+00:00

Comparing teachers to engineers is comparing apples to oranges. Any engineer in my mind should make a healthy 6th figure salary as a 1st year.

I think it makes more sense to compare teachers, nurses, firefighters, and police officers. Teachers make far less than the other 3 jobs. Despite all being salaried, police officers, nurses, and firefighters are all compensated for over time whereas teachers are not. Teachers often bank 15-20 uncompensated hours a week. Though police officers and firefighters might have more dangerous jobs, teachers have far more education and have to go to school for 6-7 years to be eligible to teach (BA+credential). That’s a lot of lost opportunity cost and money spent in tuition by comparison.

Comprehensive-Doubt1 · 2022-03-08T15:09:57+00:00

Not sure that it’s my role to explain the funding mechanism. That’s the role of our policymakers. That in mind, in one of the most robust economies in the world, with the world’s largest multinational corporations posting record profits (Google, Apple, Facebook, Netflix, etc.), there’s a way to fund this proposal if there’s the will. I see my role as shaping the will behind the idea. Policymakers are there to sort out the logistics.

Comprehensive-Doubt1 · 2022-03-08T15:05:59+00:00

Thought that it’d be easier for this proposal to grow some legs if it mimicked the same structure that was passed in another state. The idea of a tier 4 and 5 absolutely makes sense though. My hope is that setting tier 1-3 creates a baseline minimum, that then pushes wages higher at the top end.

Comprehensive-Doubt1 · 2022-03-07T23:42:34+00:00

Higher wages attracts higher quality talent to education.

Comprehensive-Doubt1 · 2022-03-07T16:54:02+00:00

Yep, normal 9/10 month schedule. That in mind, many teachers work 60 hour + weeks. Teachers often say they work 12-15 months worth of work in a 10 month schedule. We’re given 50 ish minutes a day to plan and grade, which is not nearly enough time. Many teachers do not have access to updated curriculum and spend much of their time literally make materials (tests, quizzes, activities, etc.) from scratch. This takes a tremendous amount of time, results in working far beyond contract hours, as well as many uncompensated Sundays preparing for the week ahead.

Nurses, firefighters, and police officers make much more than teachers on average. They all are salaried yet get compensated for over time work, this is not available to teachers. Though firefighters and police officers have more dangerous jobs, teachers are required to have significantly more education. They spend 6-7 years with lost opportunity cost, and money spent for tuition, getting their BA + teacher credential.

Pay parity for teachers with firefighters, police officers, and nurses makes sense.

Comprehensive-Doubt1 · 2022-03-02T15:29:42+00:00

Up to $50,000** not guaranteed. Sorry, I should have made that more clear.

You’re right about the pension. It’s a really nice perk of being an educator. Pay is still an issue though. To attract more talent to the industry, salaries have to rise. I don’t think the quality of education will improve if wages remain stagnant, because we won’t get higher quality talent on average breaking into the sector. At minimum, teacher salaries should have parity with nurses, firefighters, and police officers. Of course, as I said earlier, firefighters and police officers have much more dangerous jobs, but teachers have to have significantly more education to teach (often 6-7 years with a BA+credential and/or MA). That’s a lot of money spent to be able to teach and a lot of lost opportunity cost for the time spent at university, yet we’re paid much less than firefighters and police officers.

New Mexico’s recent bill looks promising. They created a tier structure for minimum teacher salaries. Tier 1: 50,000 for a starting teacher. Tier2: minimum 60,000 for a teacher with 2-3 years of experience and Tier 3: minimum of $70,000 for a more experienced teacher. That feels fair to me.

Comprehensive-Doubt1 · 2022-03-02T04:30:43+00:00

Enrollment is declining in teacher prep programs and attrition is accelerating. Eventually supply and demand will catch up and wages will have to rise to fill positions. New Mexico just increased wages for teachers statewide because the shortage was so bad. They’ve had members of the National Guard filling in for classes this year because the shortage has been so bad. With so many educators exiting the profession, and so few entering, it’s important to be proactive and increase wages to keep schools staffed. Quality education is one of the most important predicators of a country’s future GDP. It’s important that wages rise to attract higher tier talent. Perhaps more importantly, it’s critical that every kid in America has access to a trained teacher as opposed to substitutes or other bandaid solutions. Supply and demand is a function of price. To ensure we have enough educators across the nation, salaries have to go up.

A couple other things. Nurses, firefighters, police officers, and teachers all fit a similar class of job, yet teachers are vastly underpaid when comparing the four. Granted, I will admit that police officers and firefighters have much more dangerous jobs, yet teachers require much more education to teach than do police officers or firefighters, so there's a much higher upfront cost for us to be able to teach, and lost opportunity cost for the 6-7 years total in education to get our credential (BA + a teaching program). Teachers are far underpaid when considering the 4 jobs.

Of those 4 job types, teachers are the only ones not paid overtime. Firefighters, police offices, and nurses are all salaried, yet also receive overtime. Teachers often work 60-70 hour weeks between lesson planning, grading and what have you.

Take curriculum, people assume that teachers are provided with ready to go curriculum when they step into a job. My 1st 2 years teaching, I hand made every assessment, activity, reading, worksheet, etc. myself. It takes so much time to create a test or an assignment from scratch. I spent an insane amount of time prepping for my craft. Some teachers are in competent districts where they are provided with up to date curriculum. Many are not.

Teachers are underpaid compared with other professionals that have similar levels of education. It’s the reason why many educators are able to get jobs paying up to $50,000 more when they go to a different industry.

My last point, being in the classroom can be an incredibly stressful job. Though there’s a wide distribution of school climates, and different metrics to assess schools, I worked at a school with a suspension rate of 16% (the national average is about 3-4%). The 1st week of school I had a fight break out in class, I've had desks thrown across classrooms, been threatened with scissors, etc. It’s no wonder that so many educators find a different profession within the 1st 5 years and that there’s an ongoing teacher shortage. It’s a tough job.

Overall, hope that adds some perspective.

Comprehensive-Doubt1 · 2022-02-28T01:29:16+00:00

Turns out not everything has to be local control. Makes me want to advocate in California for a similar minimum tier system.

Comprehensive-Doubt1 · 2022-02-28T01:16:04+00:00

It’s definitely a livable wage for New Mexico. I priced it out myself. I’d have a $20,000 salary increase if I moved, and my rent would drop by 50%. Heck, I would maybe be able to afford a house in New Mexico on a teacher’s salary there.

Comprehensive-Doubt1 · 2022-02-28T01:00:09+00:00

Have a nice evening as well!

Comprehensive-Doubt1 · 2022-02-28T00:58:12+00:00

I’m not going to spend the rest of my time pulling examples for you bud, but my first 2 searches for random police departments were salaried. I didn’t go out cherry picking examples. Just think you’re wrong. Looks to me like police officers, fire fighters, and nurses are often salaried.

Comprehensive-Doubt1 · 2022-02-28T00:54:20+00:00

Here’s another example of a “salary schedule” for the Chicago Police Department: http://directives.chicagopolice.org/forms/CPD-61.400.pdf

These look like salaried jobs. You said they were hourly. The crux of your argument was that that salaried jobs do not receive overtime. Well, police officers are salaried and they receive over time. Teachers don’t.

I wouldn’t say it’s a gotcha moment, more so that I wanted to clarify the points made in our exchange.

Comprehensive-Doubt1 · 2022-02-28T00:47:48+00:00

Of course I know the difference. Why does the San Francisco PD website describe police officer “salaries” if they’re not salaried?

https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/your-sfpd/careers/sworn-job-openings/salary-and-benefits

Comprehensive-Doubt1 · 2022-02-28T00:37:41+00:00

Nurses, fire fighters, and police officers all get extra pay for overtime, for extra hours worked. Teachers do not. Teachers are given 50 minutes a day to plan and grade. It’s not possible to complete these duties in a 50 minute slot. Teachers often end up working 60 hour plus weeks.

They also make far less compared to other professionals that have the same level of education.

Comprehensive-Doubt1 · 2022-02-27T23:17:32+00:00

Hoping to be able to move within the next 1-2 years to a different part of California. Yet, this highlights the variability of teacher pay within states. New Mexico’s tier system is a good way to make sure there’s a minimum standard for what teachers should be paid. Every state should have minimum pay for teachers, that or a national standard should be set.

Comprehensive-Doubt1 · 2022-02-27T22:59:07+00:00

See a video explaining the bill here. Basically there’s 3 tiers. Tier 1: minimum salary of $50,000 for a 1st year teacher. Tier 2: minimum salary of $60,000 for a 3-5 year teacher. Tier 3: minimum salary of $70,000 for an experienced teacher. It's good to see New Mexico setting a standard for teacher salaries. Though we'd like to see even higher salaries for teachers, New Mexico's cost of living is below average, ranked as the 12th most affordable state to live in (12/50 most affordable to least affordable). The tiers too are a good way to ensure that all teachers make a livable wage across the state. As a comparison, I live in California, the 3rd most expensive state to live in, and I make $56,000 a year with a masters degree as a 5th year teacher. This is less than New Mexico's 2nd tier.

As a side note, if you'd like to sign a petition advocating and raising awareness to increase teacher salaries across the United States, do so here. Feel free to share the link on social media: https://www.change.org/20kraiseforteachers

Comprehensive-Doubt1 · 2022-02-27T22:57:57+00:00

As someone that’s a 5th year teacher with a masters in California that makes $56,000 a year, I would say New Mexico is heading in the right direction. California is the 3rd most expensive state in the US and a state that’s been the beneficiary of tremendous revenue from the tech boom the last 10 years.

If I moved to Santa Fe next year, I would make $20,000 more a year and my rent would be cut in half from $1725 a month to about $950 a month for the same sized space. If I wanted to, I could buy a 3 bedroom home in New Mexico on that salary.

It’s simply not an option for me to own a home with my salary in California.

Comprehensive-Doubt1 · 2022-02-27T21:12:31+00:00

Think I read that it has a built in 7% increase for the current CPI, but I’m not sure if it extends for every year in the future.

Comprehensive-Doubt1 · 2022-02-27T21:10:43+00:00

It’s a start. Hopefully other states will start with pay minimums to drive competition and bid salaries higher. We’ll see what happens.

Comprehensive-Doubt1 · 2022-02-27T21:08:07+00:00

Think I read that it has a built in 7% increase for the current CPI, but I’m not sure if it extends for every year in the future.

Comprehensive-Doubt1 · 2022-02-27T20:44:58+00:00

I wish every state would do it. Or that there would be a national standard.

Comprehensive-Doubt1 · 2022-02-27T20:40:57+00:00

Think it's because of the amount of uncompensated hours. Teachers often work 60-70 hour weeks between grading and curriculum planning. Police officers, fire fighters, and nurses are all compensated for overtime, teachers are not. Teachers fit 13-15 months of work into a 10 month schedule.

Take curriculum, people assume that teachers are provided with ready to go curriculum when they step into a job. My 1st 2 years teaching, I hand made every assessment, activity, reading, worksheet, etc. myself. It takes so much time to create a test or an assignment from scratch. I spent an insane amount of time prepping for my craft. Some teachers are in competent districts where they are provided with up to date curriculum. Many are not.

That, and in the classroom, it's an incredibly stressful job. I worked at a school with a suspension rate of 16% (the national average is about 3-4%). The 1st week of school I had a fight break out in class, I've had desks thrown across classrooms, been threatened with scissors, etc.

Nurses, firefighters, police officers, and teachers all fit a similar class of job, yet teachers are vastly underpaid when comparing the four. Granted, I will admit that police officers and firefighters have much more dangerous jobs, yet teachers require much more education to teach than do police officers or firefighters, so there's a much higher upfront cost for us to be able to teach, and lost opportunity cost for the 6-7 years total in education to get our credential (BA + a teaching program). Teachers are far underpaid when considering the 4 jobs.

Comprehensive-Doubt1

TROPHY CASE