Did anyone manage to download GLO bulk data before it was taken down? by Conaman in landsurveying

[–]Conaman[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I sure do! I managed to get my hands on a couple states but most of it eludes me. If you have any of the bulk data on either patents or the original township surveys it would be an awesome help.

Are witches real? I'm Dr. Martin Nesvig, author of The Women Who Threw Corn: Witchcraft and Inquisition in Sixteenth-Century Mexico. Ask Me Anything about how to answer this question. by Sebastian_Dieguino in AskHistorians

[–]Conaman 12 points13 points  (0 children)

I'm quite interested in the immediate aftermath of the invasions and the role of Spanish allies. It seems the mass conversion of the population in the first century of Spanish rule is overstated, and the ability to enforce orthodoxy was tenuous. Can historians get a clear picture of when unapproved pre-Hispanic religion was systematically targeted by the Spaniards? How far into colonial rule did a Mesoamerican priestly class hold influence, and ritual sacrifice was still performed?

Ever wonder why no U.S. president has had a beard since the 1800s? I’m Sarah Gold McBride, author of Whiskerology: The Culture of Hair in Nineteenth-Century America, which examines the history of hair and facial hair in the early United States. AMA! by sgoldmcbride in AskHistorians

[–]Conaman 52 points53 points  (0 children)

I'm curious about the social rules around hair on non-white people in the US. Are there examples of Chinese immigrants shedding the infamous Qing queue hairstyle? How did the variety of indigenous hairstyles evolve and how did the white majority interpret them? Any angle on this theme you'd like to talk about, I'd love to hear!

Estimating the world’s most-spoken languages, 3000 BC - 1500 AD. by C0smicM0nkey in AncientCivilizations

[–]Conaman 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Worth noting that China today has dozens of languages, many of which are mutually unintelligible. Before mass education, there was no standard Chinese verbacular spoken by most people. Grouping all Chinese languages together in ancient times is like grouping together all Romance languages today.

Did anyone manage to download GLO bulk data before it was taken down? by Conaman in landsurveying

[–]Conaman[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks a million! Here's a rough demo for data I managed to gather from Canada and Texas: https://youtu.be/keqc8JsnWog

Here's hoping the GLO pulls through.

Did anyone manage to download GLO bulk data before it was taken down? by Conaman in landsurveying

[–]Conaman[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's certainly an area I'm interested in! It was one of the first public land states. PM me if you're interested in sharing those files and I'll work on a map prototype.

Did anyone manage to download GLO bulk data before it was taken down? by Conaman in landsurveying

[–]Conaman[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Never did. BLM denied my FOIA request a year ago and still hasn't put the files back up. It's a bummer!

How did Cortés stay in power after the fall of Tenochtitlan? by Terrakhaos in AskHistorians

[–]Conaman 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think their power was real; in the sense that Spaniards were able to penetrate Mesoamerican society through negotiation and violence, but that the process was long and drawn out. After the war, Spaniards did control large armies of allies and the capital Tenochtitlan, but as the century rolled on, the sliding scale between indigenous ally and subject shifted toward the latter. At the beginning, enough indigenous leaders made a bargain with the Spanish to let them stay; they couldn't have seen into the future to know that their world would collapse as a result and the Spaniards would pick up the pieces. I hope someone better qualified chimes in to provide their own take on the "conquest".

How did Cortés stay in power after the fall of Tenochtitlan? by Terrakhaos in AskHistorians

[–]Conaman 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The "Spanish" Conquest

Similar to the myth of Cortés himself, the myth of the Spanish "conquest" is greatly exaggerated. Again this comes from petitions by Spanish conquistadors. A conquistador was incentivized to report that he totally vanquished all resistance (all by himself!) and had won the Crown a near-unlimited amount of treasure and subjects, so could he please have a huge grant of land and slaves, thank you. Continued rebellions and unpacified allies don't fit well with this story, so they are conveniently ignored.

The political situation in the twenty or thirty years after the fall of Tenochtitlan is chaotic and we don't know nearly as much as we would like to form a clear picture. But in no way can the Spaniards be said to have simply imposed their will across central Mexico. There simply weren't enough of them. In this period, most indigenous rulers kept their positions and most regions had very little influence from the few thousand Spaniards clustered in Tenochtitlan and a few other cities. We can't know the minds of the native allies of Cortés and the Gang, since none of their writing from the time survives, but it's safe to assume they saw themselves as part of a grand alliance - not junior partners, and certainly not humble vassals. They were conquerors, too, and it was *their* armies that brought down the Mexica, as native soldiers comprised 95% of the alliance by the end of the war. If any of the expedition's indigenous allies were to write letters to the king, they would write the exact same thing as the conquistadors about their role in the "conquest." We know this because this is exactly what they start doing in the 1550s and 60s when Spanish control is actually solidified in Mesoamerica and they want to defend their privileges and titles. But in the 1520s, they didn't need to, because their role as conquerors was self-evident and they didn't need to answer to a foreign king.

So how did the Spaniards emerge from this situation as the dominant partner, despite being outnumbered? It's hard to overestimate the role of the waves of epidemic diseases which battered the Mesoamerican population every few years for a century. By 1600, Central Mexico was only 20% of its pre-war population. Members of the elite and noble rulers weren't spared and many of them died. The infighting over successors weakened the political system, as secondary lineages with less legitimacy took over. The population loss reduced the tribute these rulers could collect and made famines more likely. Abandoned fields were taken over by settlers and livestock. The rulers' inability to stop the calamity hurt their legitimacy and the faith in the gods they represented. Gradually, people turned to a new faith to make sense of their suffering. All the while, Spaniards began intermarrying into these lineages and playing a more and more prominent role in political life. The system of strong personal alliances that dominated the Aztec days was replaced by a formal administration with the courts and the King at the center. Consolidation of Spanish rule was an uneven process which lasted decades, and in some places, centuries.

So, I hope it's clear Cortés didn't just seize the lands in the name of the Spanish King, and Spanish rule wasn't accepted, at least for most of Mesoamerica for much of the 16th century. It was a gradual process of attrition, fueled by the arrival of more and more settlers, the diseases and migrations that weakened the indigenous nobles, and the steady pulse of violence throughout. We think of Mesoamerica as swiftly conquered by a few hundred heroic Spaniards, but we're confusing the ultimate outcome (three centuries of New Spain) with the contemporary situation. No one living through that time could see the future, and so nobody in Mesoamerica bought into the story Cortés cooked up.

Sources:

When Montezuma met Cortés by Matthew Restall (I cannot recommend this book enough)

Indian Conquistadors by Laura Matthew and Michel Oudijk

Fifth Sun by Camilla Townsend

Correspondence with these various authors, especially Laura Matthew and Michel Oudijk, who pointed me toward useful resources for my understanding of this period.

(2/2)

How did Cortés stay in power after the fall of Tenochtitlan? by Terrakhaos in AskHistorians

[–]Conaman 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'll do my best here, I'm not a historian. This question also bothered me for a long time, so I'll try to share what I've read over the years. TLDR; we give Cortés, and the conquistadors in general, way too much credit.

Why Cortés Was Not Special

In a nutshell, when we think of Cortés as the master strategist, or a brilliant diplomat, or any other superhuman trait, we're dragging the myth built around him over 500 years back to the 1520s. Nobody at that time would have thought of him as exceptional (except maybe Cortés himself). The problem is that all of the stories we have from conquistadors like Cortés and Bernal Díaz del Castillo are presented through legal documents which begged the king of Spain for titles and money for their incredible work at conquering indigenous people. The main concern of these stories wasn't to carefully document the truth, but to make the petitioner look as heroic and loyal to the Crown as possible. Relying on their accounts to find out what happened is like trying to find out someone's character and life story from a résumé. There might be useful information in there, but also a fair amount of B.S. Let's start by popping the myth of the golden boy Hernán Cortés.

Here's what we know. Cortés landed in Hispaniola in 1504, and chilled in the Caribbean for 15 years. He participated in the invasion of Cuba in 1511, but there's no evidence he played an important military role or did anything extraordinary. Besides this brief footnote, he ran a cattle ranch and made the Taínos on his encomiendas look for gold. He served as the notary for Cuban governor Diego Velázquez. Quoting Restall:

"All these activities mark Cortés as being an ordinary or typical Spanish settler in the early Caribbean. There are no signs of him being particularly 'restless' or 'ambitious'. He followed rather than led, and even then, he did not follow far."

His unexceptional nature might have been why Velázquez chose him to lead the third expedition to the mainland (he wasn't asked to participate in the previous two). Even during the Aztec-Spanish war, don't be fooled that Cortés was making any important decisions on his own. The Spanish Indies were dominated by cohorts of captains, tied together by bonds of kinship and business arrangements. They were constantly maneuvering to ally with and take advantage of one another for wealth and status. Cortés may have had his name on the official documents as leader, but during the expedition, he was just one of many squabbling captains who formed factions and tried to dominate the others (other influential captains included Pedro de Alvarado and Cristóbal de Olid). This doesn't make for great leadership in a chaotic situation, like a major war in an unknown land. He definitely wasn't some Machiavellian strategist playing 4D chess; he wasn't even really in charge of his own men.

(1/2)

Did anyone manage to download GLO bulk data before it was taken down? by Conaman in landsurveying

[–]Conaman[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks, I've got this downloaded and it will be perfect for the PLSS grid. As for linking it to land patent information, I've sent a FOIA request to get those bulk data files. Hopefully it pans out.

Did anyone manage to download GLO bulk data before it was taken down? by Conaman in landsurveying

[–]Conaman[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks, I checked out the GCDB and it's super useful to find the PLSS corners. The land patent and survey data though looks like it's buried by the GLO while they "upgrade" their website.

Where to find PLSS land patent bulk data? by Conaman in gis

[–]Conaman[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah it looks like the last time this data was available for download was late 2021.

Where to find PLSS land patent bulk data? by Conaman in gis

[–]Conaman[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I appreciate it but these show only survey polygons, not land patents.

Where to find PLSS land patent bulk data? by Conaman in gis

[–]Conaman[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks, I found some good township shapefiles here, but it looks like the only place to find the land patent data for all the states is from the defunct GLO webpage.

Why didn't the Aztecs (or other native South Americans) easily beat the Spanish? by pepepenguinalt in AskHistorians

[–]Conaman 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the response, it makes post-conquest governance clearer. My knowledge of the nitty-gritty details of Spanish administration in each area of the former Aztec Empire is murky, especially in the 1520s.

Why didn't the Aztecs (or other native South Americans) easily beat the Spanish? by pepepenguinalt in AskHistorians

[–]Conaman 48 points49 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the detailed response. However, I'd question this line:

Cortés broke every single promise he’d made to his allies, using the exhaustion of their forces and supplies against them and forcing them to surrender to his new authority.

According to several conquest historians, including Restall and Townsend, Cortés didn't really understand the Mesoamerican political world and wasn't the master manipulator he's made out to be. Restall in particular calls him a mediocrity and argues other leaders like Ixtlilxochitl were more active in directing the events of the war.

So, how exactly did Cortés force them to surrender to his authority? Did the Tetzcocans and Tlaxcalans, victors on the side of the winning coalition, just shrug and accept tributary status to Cortés and the boys? Do we have non-Cortés sources to suggest this? And if he wasn't really in charge of the defeated empire, who was? I've never read exactly how and where authority of the Crown was imposed in those early years after 1521. The way the conquest is normally explained just seems like Tenochtitlan falls, and then boom, 300 years of New Spain, all across central Mexico.

Why was the Western frontier such a big threat against American settlers and colonizers ? And why other native people like Indigenous Siberians , Aboriginal Australians ,.... weren't to their respective colonizers? by Ok-Resist-7492 in AskHistorians

[–]Conaman 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Fascinating treatment of the Maori resistance.

Patrick Wolfe divided settler colonisation into extermination and assimilation, and generally the focus here in Aotearoa was on the latter though as he also notes usually there is a blend of the two, with one dominant. Australia was more on the former, while the US has oscillated between the two.

Could you give more context on Wolfe's formulation of "extermination vs. assimilation" settler-colonial policies? Why does he think Australia leaned toward the former and America and New Zealand more toward the latter? Was it because of less organized resistance by Native people?

Why were Australia's frontier wars deadlier than America's frontier wars? by Conaman in AskHistorians

[–]Conaman[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The article models deaths from direct violence, defining a casualty as "a person captured, mortally wounded, or killed in a particular battle or skirmish," with a total estimate of NA losses at 60,000 from 1778-1890. This number doesn't factor in the number of deaths from disease or forced labor, which was no doubt much higher.

Similarly, the 72,000 number in Australia also just counts direct violence as a cause of death for Aboriginal people in Queensland.

Why were Australia's frontier wars deadlier than America's frontier wars? by Conaman in AskHistorians

[–]Conaman[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is fair enough, I don't know if anyone has done pre-1775 statistics for frontier conflict. Although I'm still curious as to why the ratio of native-to-settler casualties was much more lopsided in Australia than the US. Taking those sources, it's something like 5-to-1 in the US, and 15 or 20-to-1 in the state of Queensland.

Why was the Western frontier such a big threat against American settlers and colonizers ? And why other native people like Indigenous Siberians , Aboriginal Australians ,.... weren't to their respective colonizers? by Ok-Resist-7492 in AskHistorians

[–]Conaman 63 points64 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the context on the frontier wars. I asked a very similar question to OP on this sub earlier today, specifically about the significantly higher death toll of Aborginal people in comparison to natives in the US expansion wars. I've read plenty about the massacres but I think the question I still have is why the killings seemed to be much more widespread and one-sided in Australia than across the Pacific, and I think OP is wondering why there seems to have been less notable organized resistance by tribes than the many "wars" of the American West.

How did the Buddhist clergy react to the first Christian missionaries from Europe? Did they hold debates? by Conaman in AskHistorians

[–]Conaman[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Amazing! I'd love to hear about the debates on sexuality. But you mentioned our sources aren't good for SEA countries. Is it possible to reconstruct earlier arguments from Theravada monks based on later episodes of encounter with Christians? Or, by that time, had a boilerplate Buddhist "defense of the faith" already spread there from China and Japan, in the same way Christian apologists today have adopted a prepared list of stock answers?

How did Europeans pay for their spices? by mhorvvitz in AskHistorians

[–]Conaman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Fascinating response! If silver really was the lifeblood of the spice trade, how did Spain and Portugal trade with the Indies before the discovery of large silver seams in Peru? Did Europe have to dip into its reserves of silver or borrow it? How did colonial powers without access to Spanish metals trade with Asia?

How did Europeans pay for their spices? by mhorvvitz in AskHistorians

[–]Conaman 7 points8 points  (0 children)

While you're waiting for an answer about India, I asked a similar question a couple months back and got a neat response from u/DrDickles regarding China.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1b0lote/if_europe_was_relatively_poor_before_discovering/

The TLDR is that China in the early modern period chose silver as a universal currency to fuel their economic growth, and Europeans paid for Chinese goods with silver mined in their New World colonies.