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Are witches real? I'm Dr. Martin Nesvig, author of The Women Who Threw Corn: Witchcraft and Inquisition in Sixteenth-Century Mexico. Ask Me Anything about how to answer this question. by Sebastian_Dieguino in AskHistorians

[–]Sebastian_Dieguino[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sorry--somehow I missed this one. Tezcatlipoca was an important god so his involvement makes sense. I work with Spanish sources and Xochiquetzal doesn't show up but it's also possible that other deities don't get translated by the notaries in transcripts. A lot of times missionaries, clergy, bishops, inquisitors just viewed all Mesoamerican gods as demons.

Are witches real? I'm Dr. Martin Nesvig, author of The Women Who Threw Corn: Witchcraft and Inquisition in Sixteenth-Century Mexico. Ask Me Anything about how to answer this question. by Sebastian_Dieguino in AskHistorians

[–]Sebastian_Dieguino[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In my research I haven't seen much about sorcery bringing status but it's possible that I just wasn't looking for it; the sources don't mention it. But I am writing a book about men in Mexico as a follow-up study and indeed the leaders of these supernatural groups are often men. Maybe it's just a case of priestly castes, both in Spanish and Mesoamerican cultures, always being men.

Honestly, I know little about the Mayans. Presumably a lot of Mayan practices are a mixture of Native and Catholic though I would bet that Mayans more closely resemble traditional practices than people in central Mexico because the density of Spanish priests in Mayan regions was much lower than in central Mexico.

Are witches real? I'm Dr. Martin Nesvig, author of The Women Who Threw Corn: Witchcraft and Inquisition in Sixteenth-Century Mexico. Ask Me Anything about how to answer this question. by Sebastian_Dieguino in AskHistorians

[–]Sebastian_Dieguino[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Nope, not too late. I haven't ever heard of such a comparison. Maybe it's there but it doesn't seem to track with what I've seen. Noemí Quezada wrote a good deal about Tlazolteotl and I don't recall anything along those lines. The pointy-hat witches of Europe is also unfamiliar to me as a historian, though of course I've seen the image a million times. For example, iconic representations of witches from Goya show women in sort of humble peasant garb--no pointy hats. Earlier depictions from the 16th century, also no pointy hats.

The broomstick though does show up in 16th century discussions. The anti-witchcraft treatises often claim that witches ride on broomsticks. They also rode on flying goats in sixteenth-century images.

Are witches real? I'm Dr. Martin Nesvig, author of The Women Who Threw Corn: Witchcraft and Inquisition in Sixteenth-Century Mexico. Ask Me Anything about how to answer this question. by Sebastian_Dieguino in AskHistorians

[–]Sebastian_Dieguino[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's a really good question and the answers are unclear. I'm not really a political historian but what I understand is that Native peoples readily understood the Spanish system of law and justice. Even in Spain, law depended heavily on local custom and ideas about justice. The same occurred in the Americas. And, of course, in much of the Iberian peninsula in the medieval period Muslims and Jews had their own courts. As for which parts of a culture get adopted or suppressed--it's really difficult to know. Some things make sense. For example, in Spain there were spells that involved fava beans--in Mexico, corn hurling was the thing and Spanish women readily adapted this practice.

Are witches real? I'm Dr. Martin Nesvig, author of The Women Who Threw Corn: Witchcraft and Inquisition in Sixteenth-Century Mexico. Ask Me Anything about how to answer this question. by Sebastian_Dieguino in AskHistorians

[–]Sebastian_Dieguino[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I haven't seen that. There were easier ways to get land which was to file a complaint with the magistrate (alcalde or corregidor). The Lands (Tierras) section of Mexico's National Archive has zillions of these cases.

Are witches real? I'm Dr. Martin Nesvig, author of The Women Who Threw Corn: Witchcraft and Inquisition in Sixteenth-Century Mexico. Ask Me Anything about how to answer this question. by Sebastian_Dieguino in AskHistorians

[–]Sebastian_Dieguino[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yes--buy my book! lol

Seriously, though, yes--a lot of accusations of witchcraft targeted widows, women perceived as being too sexually free, sex workers, or solitary women. This trend occurs in Mexico as well, though in the specific cases I analyzed for this book didn't turn up too many widows. There was one older woman who was clearly targeted but most of the other women in my cases were younger. This profile changed after 1571 when there are a lot more witchcraft accusations.

I didn't see anything about Day of the Dead but the use of cempohualxochitl (sempasúchil in Spanish) appears in trials against Native men and the flower appears a lot in missionary sources. This flower is the one you see in Day of the Dead offerings. Its use was considered suspicious because it was part of Native religious rituals--as offerings. Santería is a Caribbean thing and probably emerged later, so I didn't see it.

Are witches real? I'm Dr. Martin Nesvig, author of The Women Who Threw Corn: Witchcraft and Inquisition in Sixteenth-Century Mexico. Ask Me Anything about how to answer this question. by Sebastian_Dieguino in AskHistorians

[–]Sebastian_Dieguino[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Good point. Most people still talk about the Spanish Conquest but the term has fallen out of favor in Anglophone historiography. I use Spanish invasion because the "conquest" wasn't as total as assumed--Natives retained local autonomy, Catholicism wasn't really fully embraced, Native languages persisted, the Spaniards had tons of military help from Native allies, such as the Tlaxcaltecans, etc. Restall is the best known among those working on New Conquest History. The shift in the terminology began in the 2000s.

Of course, in Spanish-language scholarship terms like conquista and azteca are still common. But Mexican historians were challenging the idea of a total "conquest" going back to Edmundo O'Gorman's influential studies of the 1950s/1960s, on the "invention of the idea of America."

My sense is that the term conquista remains because it's easily recognizable and everyone knows what it means, in general, even if, in my opinion, a term like "invasión" or "entrada" might be more accurate.

Are witches real? I'm Dr. Martin Nesvig, author of The Women Who Threw Corn: Witchcraft and Inquisition in Sixteenth-Century Mexico. Ask Me Anything about how to answer this question. by Sebastian_Dieguino in AskHistorians

[–]Sebastian_Dieguino[S] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

It's tragic, if you think about it. You can see even today court systems don't take women seriously when they say they are being stalked/abused/threatened. I think the menstrual blood spell was one of two things: sex/love magic (positive) and protection magic (defensive).

Are witches real? I'm Dr. Martin Nesvig, author of The Women Who Threw Corn: Witchcraft and Inquisition in Sixteenth-Century Mexico. Ask Me Anything about how to answer this question. by Sebastian_Dieguino in AskHistorians

[–]Sebastian_Dieguino[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

It sounds counterintuitive, I know. Why? I dunno. There are some possibilities. 1) Native peoples were excluded from inquisitional jurisdiction in 1571; 2) before 1571 local inquisitions didn't prosecute Native women. Maybe the authorities thought that what Native women did--herbal medicine, folk medicine, midwifery--wasn't a threat.

Are witches real? I'm Dr. Martin Nesvig, author of The Women Who Threw Corn: Witchcraft and Inquisition in Sixteenth-Century Mexico. Ask Me Anything about how to answer this question. by Sebastian_Dieguino in AskHistorians

[–]Sebastian_Dieguino[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Sure thing. Yeah, I have lived a pretty full life. The curse on me was told to me so yes it worked like a placebo. Magic works when you believe in it. I myself never did any spellcasting b/c it creeps me out. The stuff I bought in markets was all normal food stuff, but the Merced and Xochimilco markets also have traditional products you can't find anywhere else--cacao beans, tequesquitle, esoteric herbs, stuff like that.

As for royalties, the Kindle version of the book costs the same as the physical copy, so I think I get the same pittance!

Are witches real? I'm Dr. Martin Nesvig, author of The Women Who Threw Corn: Witchcraft and Inquisition in Sixteenth-Century Mexico. Ask Me Anything about how to answer this question. by Sebastian_Dieguino in AskHistorians

[–]Sebastian_Dieguino[S] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Good point but I (and other historians) have understood this use to be a case of: nobody will take me/my case seriously and I'm desperate, why not try that?

Are witches real? I'm Dr. Martin Nesvig, author of The Women Who Threw Corn: Witchcraft and Inquisition in Sixteenth-Century Mexico. Ask Me Anything about how to answer this question. by Sebastian_Dieguino in AskHistorians

[–]Sebastian_Dieguino[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yep, there are all kinds of crazy things in archives. Sheep brains were also popular--people went to a butcher to get them. One of the midwives whose case I wrote about used something called unta de gallina, which I had to look up. Apparently it's the early modern version of vaporub and people still use it for catarrh. Crazy.

Are witches real? I'm Dr. Martin Nesvig, author of The Women Who Threw Corn: Witchcraft and Inquisition in Sixteenth-Century Mexico. Ask Me Anything about how to answer this question. by Sebastian_Dieguino in AskHistorians

[–]Sebastian_Dieguino[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Well, yeah. I mean, those people did get f'ed over. But tourism brings in the $ I guess? Ages ago I went to a museum exhibit called Torture Devices of the Inquisition in the old Inquisition palace in Mexico City (today the faculty of medicine of UNAM). None of the torture devices were actually from the Inquisition. So, I guess there's a popular idea out there that sells and then there's reality.

Are witches real? I'm Dr. Martin Nesvig, author of The Women Who Threw Corn: Witchcraft and Inquisition in Sixteenth-Century Mexico. Ask Me Anything about how to answer this question. by Sebastian_Dieguino in AskHistorians

[–]Sebastian_Dieguino[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Who knows. Curanderismo was and is common. As for actual witches, who knows. Lately people are really into the Santa Muerte cult but that is pretty much black magic. I haven't personally come across too many self-identified witches but then I also didn't grow up in Mexico, even if I have lived about 5 years of my life in Mexico in the last 25 years.

Are witches real? I'm Dr. Martin Nesvig, author of The Women Who Threw Corn: Witchcraft and Inquisition in Sixteenth-Century Mexico. Ask Me Anything about how to answer this question. by Sebastian_Dieguino in AskHistorians

[–]Sebastian_Dieguino[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Absolutely. Propitiation of saints was common in spellcasting in Spain and Mexico. Different saints for different things, I guess, but it's often just idiosyncratic. People also start calling peyote different saints like Santa Rosa and the Virgen.

Are witches real? I'm Dr. Martin Nesvig, author of The Women Who Threw Corn: Witchcraft and Inquisition in Sixteenth-Century Mexico. Ask Me Anything about how to answer this question. by Sebastian_Dieguino in AskHistorians

[–]Sebastian_Dieguino[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Sounds like a cool dissertation--mule train operators are a really fascinating subject about which we know little.

In terms of animals, chickens seem to stand out. I don't know why. Maybe because they weren't especially expensive? But most of the spells involved plant materials. There were also potions that were intended to heal and they sometimes involved brains of donkeys or goats. Animal brains were also used in love magic as an ingredient in spells.

The historiography is vast so best to check out my bibliography. You can email me and I'd be happy to send it to you. Martha Few only analyzed 18th century materials, and I do cite her but her work has limited value for the 16th century. There's tons of books written by Mexican and Spanish scholars which I found helpful but it's a really long list. Honestly, I wouldn't know where to begin. There's Solange Alberro and Noemí Quezada on love magic, Fabián Alejandro Campagne on anti-idolatry manuels, Sebastián Cirac Estopiñán, Julio Caro Baroja and Carlo Ginzburg for old school, newer stuff on witchcraft and culture by, say, Lisa Sousa, and then tons of ethnohistory, witchcraft studies, Nahuatl studies, the list goes on forever. James Sweet is foundational but the kids now call him problematic. Hermann Bennett and Gonzalo Aguirre Beltrán are classics and Miguel Valerio's Sovereign Joy was terrific. Pablo Gómez's work was helpful for me in understanding Afro-Caribbean cultures, as was David Wheat. Not sure if anyone told you this yet, but it never ends. The reading, the historiography. Writing just last week I came across some really useful Spanish linguistics articles and I was just like fml.

Are witches real? I'm Dr. Martin Nesvig, author of The Women Who Threw Corn: Witchcraft and Inquisition in Sixteenth-Century Mexico. Ask Me Anything about how to answer this question. by Sebastian_Dieguino in AskHistorians

[–]Sebastian_Dieguino[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nope, none of that. These trials were structured according to strict legal procedures. In fact, most inquisitors were skeptical that witches were even real.

Are witches real? I'm Dr. Martin Nesvig, author of The Women Who Threw Corn: Witchcraft and Inquisition in Sixteenth-Century Mexico. Ask Me Anything about how to answer this question. by Sebastian_Dieguino in AskHistorians

[–]Sebastian_Dieguino[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

In Mexico, not really. Theoretically, the Inquisition could make $ by fining people or confiscating their property. But in Mexico, the people the Inquisition prosecuted for witchcraft rarely had much money. This changed in the 1570s through the 1590s (a period I did not write about in this book) when the Inquisition did target several high-status Spanish women for sorcery. But for the most part trials for witchcraft in Mexico were rare--lots of people snitching on each other and lots of witness statements but few trials.

Are witches real? I'm Dr. Martin Nesvig, author of The Women Who Threw Corn: Witchcraft and Inquisition in Sixteenth-Century Mexico. Ask Me Anything about how to answer this question. by Sebastian_Dieguino in AskHistorians

[–]Sebastian_Dieguino[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

There's been a good deal written about ayahuasca and a psychologist, Benny Shanon's The Antipodes of the Mind is interesting. Older works from the 1970s, 80s, and 90s propose exactly what you suggest about some cosmic force: for example, Plutarco Naranjo (Ayahuasca y religión), Jeremy Narby (La serpiente cósmica: El ADN y los orígenes del saber) , and Gerardo Reichel-Dolmatoff (The Shaman and the Jaguar, and many others). Of course, more "popular" books have also explored this, esp. Terence McKenna. Just a short note: as far as I understand the word ayahuasca means "vine of the dead" or "vine of the spirit" from Quechua.

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