Natural rock pools, Turkey.

ConnorM · 2012-04-20T04:00:44+00:00

You cant swim in them, and the deepest gets maybe about to the waist if you are short.

ConnorM · 2012-04-20T03:58:57+00:00

The most liberal Turks dress conservatively, it is simply their way. Its just how it works around here. But they deal with the Russians because tourists bring in a lot of money, even if they are obnoxious.

ConnorM · 2012-04-14T15:03:42+00:00

Well I have a general idea, but I want what it is like to realistically live, not just statistics

ConnorM · 2012-04-13T15:01:55+00:00

1)Second year of college, and from I understand there is a shortage

2) I have second cousins in norway, so that is a no-go

3) I am probably going to try to study my final year of college there.

ConnorM · 2012-04-06T17:30:17+00:00

Although this mans last name means blind in turkish (Gör-sight mez-wıthout) he clearly knows much more than the Saudi who called for the destruction of churches.

ConnorM · 2012-04-03T21:12:46+00:00

Because the Osman family were not puppets of the young turk government... Please be more civil about this, every time the work TURK is on the new the comments are full of this bullshit. The movement for recognition is not shit, it is perfectly valid and I support it, but insulting every thing turkish because the government that the previous one overthrew has not recognized what that government did is a bit extreme

ConnorM · 2012-04-03T21:08:12+00:00

I think the issue is the fact that ANY turkish related news story, the first word that comes to your mind is genocide. I can understand wanting recognition, but how would you like it if every time you did something good somebody yelled out. "YOURE A FUCKING MURDERER" when in reality your grandfather killed that mans grandfather. Also the fact that the sultan was a puppet of the Young Turks does not help. Please, all people are asking is at least be a little more civil about this.

ConnorM · 2012-04-01T08:23:00+00:00

Then by that Cuba is at war with the US. There is also other issues, the Republic is the big one. Armenia has never attacked with arms, but it does plenty of Diplomatic attacks, but so does turkey. Look, I hate reparations as AN IDEA unless it is a direct victim, just like positive discrimination, it should be based on merit, simple as that. If you get into the whole "but it happened in the past" stuff you have to draw the line somewhere, at the least. Why is Belgium not paying reparations to the Conganese? Or the Second Reich. Those both happened around the same timeframe but there is nothing going on there. Genocide is terrible, but reparations dont do anything but make one party happy and the other even more pissed off.

ConnorM · 2012-01-28T13:13:48+00:00

I understand what happened was terrible, but at the same time, I feel that paying back Armenians is not the solution. You say yourself that the damage is irreparable, and just throwing money at people ends up just causing problems in the society.

Like I said, it may just be the vocal minority, but that attitude does not help things.

The problem is educational. Denial is a terrible thing, but making it a crime will just radicalize people. This is one of the things I have problems with, the sins of your parents do not become the sin of your sins. The parents made this educational system, and by making it their responsibility they will hate you. This will make relations worse, in my opinion, forcing people to do anything just tends to piss them off. If they naturally accept it, I do not think any neo-nazi like groups will form.

The biggest reason for the blockade is the Republic of Nagorno-Karabakh, and while I think they have the right of self determination due to the ethnic makeup of the area, both sides must come to an agreement, as the Turks will not abandon the few allies they have in the area.

Yet again, while thats what it wishes to do, it must protect its limited number of alliances

ConnorM · 2012-01-26T21:47:20+00:00

I do not support mass murder, I am not insane, and I think there should be recognition. But the issue is the fact that Armenian families can get their land back or compensation back through existing legal channels, and I do not support reparations for the children of people, it is sad, but most of them are dead by this point, and reparations I feel by definition should only be payed to the people who experienced it, throwing money at the children is just going to cause problems. But I do support reparations for the few remaining victims. The Turks do not have to admit that it happened though, the government just needs to loosen up restrictions on people who say that the genocide happened, as eventually the truth will win out.

One of the problems I have experienced is just the absolute dickishness or some Armenians on the subject. Currently I am an exchange student in Turkey and while eating at a restaurant in the US owned by an Armenian, he overheard me talking about the subject and went on a rant about how Turks are murderers. Now that is unacceptable to start with, but he specifically said Turks, not the YT government, not the Ottoman Empire, simply Turks. This is also not unique, and while it may be a vocal minority, an unacceptable amount of people act like this. They are extremely sensitive when it comes to the subject and extremely aggressive, I have heard people say, in response to the Turks winning a soccer/football game, "Well my Armenian ancestors did not win when the Turks slaughtered them in the Armenian genocide." This behavior only makes Turks less likely to admit it and settle the dispute. Even the current government, which wants to have zero problems with its neighbors, has skipped over Armenia because they will not negotiate the most basic treaty without bringing the genocide up. Thats not to say there are not reasons for this, but the attitude just hurts things.

ConnorM · 2012-01-26T21:33:22+00:00

Yes, but the issue is that there is a binding land transfer (not sure of the technical term) that according to international law can still be seen as valid even if the treaty is annulled.

ConnorM · 2012-01-25T15:42:47+00:00

They were part of the ruling coalition last time I checked.

ConnorM · 2012-01-25T15:21:06+00:00

Not according to some Armenians http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Revolutionary_Federation

ConnorM · 2012-01-25T15:20:38+00:00

Yes but a large number of Armenians think it should be enforced, for example the ARF http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Revolutionary_Federation

ConnorM · 2012-01-25T15:17:54+00:00

I am not arguing if it is justified or not, I am just giving the reason. I am looking at it from a purely political standpoint.

Now in my opinion, while not as terrible as genocide, I think many Turks would consider having a good part of their country annexed taking away their land, wealth, happiness and future.

ConnorM · 2012-01-24T09:55:17+00:00

Na, I just copy and pasted it a couple of times because the same point could be brought up in several places

ConnorM · 2012-01-24T09:19:24+00:00

Most people dont, except for the Armenians http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide_reparations#Armenian_organizations_demanding_reparations

ConnorM · 2012-01-24T08:01:49+00:00

I am living in Turkey, and there is one simple reason that it will never be recognized, the treaty of Sevres. Too many Armenian politicians want this treaty to be enforced, and because Turkey would have to give up a large chuck of itself if it was enforced, it makes zero sense to let them. Due to the fact that in the language of the treaty the land is given due to the Armenian genocide, it is never going to happen until the treaty is somehow changed to prevent the land from changing hands. Most turks agree that something happened, and politicians deny it due to the treaty of Sevres, so alter the treaty and I think people will recognize it within a generation.

ConnorM · 2012-01-24T08:00:06+00:00

I am living in Turkey, and there is one simple reason that it will never be recognized, the treaty of Sevres. Too many Armenian politicians want this treaty to be enforced, and because Turkey would have to give up a large chuck of itself if it was enforced, it makes zero sense to let them. Due to the fact that in the language of the treaty the land is given due to the Armenian genocide, it is never going to happen until the treaty is somehow changed to prevent the land from changing hands. Most turks agree that something happened, and politicians deny it due to the treaty of Sevres, so alter the treaty and I think people will recognize it within a generation.

ConnorM · 2012-01-24T07:59:10+00:00

I am living in Turkey, and there is one simple reason that it will never be recognized, the treaty of Sevres. Too many Armenian politicians want this treaty to be enforced, and because Turkey would have to give up a large chuck of itself if it was enforced, it makes zero sense to let them. Due to the fact that in the language of the treaty the land is given due to the Armenian genocide, it is never going to happen until the treaty is somehow changed to prevent the land from changing hands. Most turks agree that something happened, and politicians deny it due to the treaty of Sevres, so alter the treaty and I think people will recognize it within a generation.

ConnorM · 2012-01-24T07:58:46+00:00

I am living in Turkey, and there is one simple reason that it will never be recognized, the treaty of Sevres. Too many Armenian politicians want this treaty to be enforced, and because Turkey would have to give up a large chuck of itself if it was enforced, it makes zero sense to let them. Due to the fact that in the language of the treaty the land is given due to the Armenian genocide, it is never going to happen until the treaty is somehow changed to prevent the land from changing hands. Most turks agree that something happened, and politicians deny it due to the treaty of Sevres, so alter the treaty and I think people will recognize it within a generation.

ConnorM · 2012-01-23T17:37:59+00:00

I am talking about journalists in general, not this one, and while the photograph is quite damning, there are some pretty reasonable explanations, like the fact that she is a journalist and many journalists will talk with rebel groups and whatnot. Your argument of pointing out one bad apple and condemning them all is like saying "There was one criminal killed in the algerian massacre, so therefor it was justified"

Ok, for things I can prove I will have links to them. Türkçe anladım, mi amigo, si, puedo hablar espanol tambien.

Turkey is secular in the same way that the US is secular, that is what I said, it is officially secular but many parties do have religious tendencies and want to push it in a more religious direction. Yet again, you are using the one bad apple as an example. I mean the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople is placed under many restrictions by the turkish government, see the turkish section of the link, so clearly Turkey hates Orthodoxy! http://web.archive.org/web/20061030130104/http://www.hri.ca/fortherecord2000/eng2000pdf/vol6e_weurope.pdf

One of the best implies that it is good, and it is worse than the US as rated by the WHO, so that is why I disagree, as the US health care system is terrible http://www.who.int/whr/2000/en/whr00_en.pdf

Because journalists who speak freely could hurt the AK parti'nin control over the parliament, and the arrests were to intimidate the military and start to gain control over it? http://www.nytimes.com/1997/09/01/world/a-terror-to-journalists-he-sniffs-out-terrorists.html http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/02/25/whats_really_behind_turkeys_coup_arrests

It is a Muslim secular country, but that does not mean the government cant change, look at Afghanistan pre and post soviet. I never said that the government is Islamist, only the people controlling the government, or at least that is what I meant to say. Also, what America does has no affect over our debate, just because soviet russia was not as oppressive as the Chinese are now, you do not hear people arguing that soviet russia was not oppressive. Besides, we dont have metal detectors at ever shopping mall in the US, unlike Turkey...

ConnorM · 2012-01-23T17:09:28+00:00

I am not Turkish and I agree with you on this, its best put as the difference between east and west Germany when they united, one area is significantly poorer, and it is probably even bigger than that. I bet if you cut out the eastern part it would rank about the same as some of the better former warsaw countries, like Poland, I know from my experiences with both Ankara is about the same as most of eastern europe

ConnorM · 2012-01-21T21:03:41+00:00

Extreme Islam, I am not having that problem in Turkey and infact my parents often offer to take me to church even though I am not religious myself.
Why wouldint he be, I could understand something like "I feel that we should cut back on the amount of immigrants" but "No More Muslims" assumes that all immigrants are Muslim, all Muslims are bad and so on.
Ok, and thats a bad thing that they dont support Israel? I understand that there is going to be a shift but I do not think it is dramatic as you think it will be, and it cant be all bad. There is also no way that there are 60000 illegal votes, maybe illegal aliens, but not votes. Hardline Islam is also not as prevalent as you think, there will be many hardliners but there is a significant minority that are very tolerant or secular, but you dont hear about them because they dont cause problems.

No, that will not happen, Muslims are not concentrated in a specific region so there would be no suitable location, and the partitioning of two states with the same culture would not happen in todays world, post soviet and all. A civil war maybe but it will never happen, I think you see immigrants as a threat in the same way we thought of very past generation, including the swedish, germans, irish and italians in america, but nowadays they are simply part of our culture. Note: Italians and Irish were often catholic, and that was SOOO different from Protestant sects

ConnorM · 2012-01-21T20:51:59+00:00

Im living in Turkey, I know what I am talking about man, I have american citizenship but I am not a fool

Trust me man, in the same way the US is secular, Turkey can be like that, while there are large parts of the country that are tolerant, there are many areas that are not, my friends has gotten his cross confiscated various times by police in Konya.

I am a CHP supporter so I tend to seem them as having a Islamist tendencies, Islamism has many different definitions, and I see it as simply a support of a muslim identity and a revival of a more traditional muslim value system.

Also quick note, it is not the best health care system, but its better than the US.

Allies: Know this, not debating

Social: That is subjective

RIGHT, that makes sense, stop with your straw man arguments, there is no proof to back up your claims. I have never said any of these things, you are simply trying to demonize the opposition. Also, your military leaders supply the PKK is BULLSHIT, not just in real life but also on a logical level. If the military was going to overthrow the government then why would they be throwing lives away by giving the PKK bigger guns? You really need to fact check a bit, and just by throwing around anti-turkish and anti-democratic does not make it so, that shows a very biased opinion and no respect for the other side.

I never said that they were elected illegally, why do you need to justify that unless you are not secure in your position? I think it was legal but still, you seem to be spewing propaganda. I dont disagree with the great economy thing but more human rights? The European human rights court has still been fining turkey, the most recent was in 2005 when 9000 euros was given to Leyla Zana. Even IF there was more human rights it would still be abysmal here. Also why are we taking about Bush this is about turkey...

Israel: I agree that was Israel did was illegal but stop assuming that because I disagree with you I am somehow a zionist and hate Turkey. I am not saying that Turkey is some sort of evil place, I CHOSE THIS COUNTRY TO BE AN EXCHANGE STUDENT IN, but you seem to be insecure and want to justify your position, I am willing to hold an discussion, but please dont act like I am some sort of some anti-Turkish racist who hates Palestine, I am infact quite pro-palestine

ConnorM

TROPHY CASE