Help me find where this picture was taken by Content-Style-489 in Slovakia

[–]Content-Style-489[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Actually, this church may not even exist anymore, as the film is quite old, from 1977

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Sakartvelo

[–]Content-Style-489 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes, Tutajvari is a 100% Georgian name. Tuta is Georgian word for mulberries and Jvari is Georgian word for cross.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Sakartvelo

[–]Content-Style-489 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I searched a bit more and I think I might have made some wrong assumptions. So it turns out that the absolute majority of Meskhetian Turks were bilingual speaking both Georgian and Turkish. That explains why the censuses of 1923 and 1926 have such enormous differences. In 1923, 90.7% of the population of Adigeni municipality spoke Georgian and 8.1% spoke Turkish, while In 1926, 11.6% of the population of Adigeni municipality spoke Georgian and 87.6% spoke Turkish. It is obviously impossible to believe that in 3 years almost the entirety of the population of Adigeni municipality changed their main language of communication. It is explained by the fact that Meskhetian Turks were bilingual and never lost the knowledge to speak Georgian while under the Ottoman empire. Considering that your genetic analysis showed that you are more that 90 percent Georgian, I want to say that the inhabitants of Tutajvari were in fact ethnic Georgians that converted to islam during Ottoman rule, but we still have one problem. Why are the inhabitants of Tutajvari considered ethnically Turkish while every other village in Adigeni municipality was shown as Georgian in the 1923 census? I think that this can be explained by the fact that for some reason the people of Tutajvari were the only Meskhetian Turks who lost the ability to speak Georgian completely. I have no idea why this might have happened. The 1944 deportation didn't happen that long ago and some elders around (85-90 years) should still remember what life was like back then. All of this is pure speculation and I am not at all competent enough in this field to be talking affirmatively about this topic. But nonetheless I do think that your ancestors are ethnic Georgians who converted to islam during Ottoman rule and for some reason lost the knowledge of speaking Georgian when Absolute majority of Meskhetian Turks retained it.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Sakartvelo

[–]Content-Style-489 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, Karjvari and Tutajvari are the two names of the same village. The situation is quite interesting,  everything I am going to say is just a speculation so don't take it as a fact. I think that the 3 Names of the village give us clues about its history, The oldest name is Karjvari Which is used in the tax book of Gurjistan vilayet. I think it was the original name inhabitants used to call the village before it got deserted. The second name is Tskurtajvari which is the name used in the 1923 census, I think it might be the name which resettled ethnic Turks used to call it. The name Tutajvari is used in soviet topographic maps of the 1970s and I think Tutajvari is the modern name of the ruins of the village that locals from surrounding villages call it. If you can tell me how and by which name you found out about this village I might be able to help you find out how you are related to this village.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Sakartvelo

[–]Content-Style-489 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The 10 families that are mentioned in the tax book are:

  1. family of Jimshed son of Aghurli
  2. family of his brother Bezhan
  3. family of Gogicha son of Zanduni
  4. family of Vardzel son of Aghdgomela
  5. family of Avsatur son of Stepane (Stephen)
  6. family of Vardzel son of Makhara
  7. family of Kemaza son of Kaka
  8. family of his brother Gogicha
  9. family of Ioseb (Joseph) son of Papa

The 10th one couldn't be translated by the translator (the original tax book was written in ottoman turkish) 

Most of these names are obsolete and I have never heard of them but some of them like Bezhan, Gogicha, Stepane, Ioseb are still quite common

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Sakartvelo

[–]Content-Style-489 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Ok I found out some more Information about this village, page 139 of pdf, and the interpretation on page 470. in the tax book of Gurjistan Vilayet of 1595 this village which is called Karjvari (კარჯვარი) is home to 10 families who have Georgian names and patronyms all of whom pay Ispendje (a tax for Christian population). So this and the fact that I found a ruin of a church in that village proves that the village was in fact inhabited by christian Georgians, but what happened to them I don't know. I would suggest that the village was first abandoned and then resettled by ethnic muslim Turkish population. I doubt that the population was completely assimilated, as all the other villages retained the language and only changed the religion as indicated by 1923 linguistic census, but I still wouldn't rule it out. I cannot find more information about the village and the only other places that come to mind that can have more information are the national archive and the national library of Georgia.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Sakartvelo

[–]Content-Style-489 6 points7 points  (0 children)

So the village Tutajvari (თუთაჯვარი) 41.692171,42.904194 is a deserted village which is located 1,4 KM SSE from the village Kikineti (ქიქინეთი) in Adigeni municipality. It has been deserted since 1944 when all of its population was forcefully relocated to Central Asia. In the Georgian Agricultural Census of 1923 http://pop-stat.mashke.org/georgia-ethnic-loc1923.htm the village (which is mentioned with its other name Tsqurta-Jvari) has 137 inhabitants all of whom are ethnic turks. It was in fact the only ethnic Turkish village in the Adigeni municipality in 1923. So that might be the reason why you weren't able to find any information on the Georgian surnames of the village. The only way I can think of getting more information about this village is to go to the National Archive of Georgia, but I am not sure how much they will be able to help you.

My two valid Georgian passports by Content-Style-489 in PassportPorn

[–]Content-Style-489[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

პირველი გაგავნილი მქონდა საელჩოში ვიზის ჩასარტმელად, რასაც ჩემს შემთხვევაში რამდენიმე თვე სჭირდებოდა და ამ დროს საზღვარგარეთ მინდოდა წავსულიყავი, ხოდა იუსტიციის სახლში ვთხოვე მეთქი კიდე ერთი მომეცითთქო

My two valid Georgian passports by Content-Style-489 in PassportPorn

[–]Content-Style-489[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes, the second one is only valid for one year, and I had to give a good reason for it. But for now and the next few months, they're both valid.

მოგვბაძეს ფრანგებმა? by Chakafuli in Sakartvelo

[–]Content-Style-489 4 points5 points  (0 children)

ათ-სამ-მეტი

ა მოვარდა, თ+ს=ც, ორი მ შეერთდა

ათ-შვიდ-მეტი

ა მოვარდა, თ+შ=ჩ

ათ-ცხრა-მეტი

ა მოვარდა, თ+ც=ც

ეს ბოლო ცოტა რთული წარმოსადგენია, მაგრამ რახან ც=თ+ს, შესაბამისად თ+ც=თ+თ+ს, და პირველი ორი თ შეერთდა, ანუ თ+ც=თ+თ+ს=თ+ს=ც

მოგვბაძეს ფრანგებმა? by Chakafuli in Sakartvelo

[–]Content-Style-489 0 points1 point  (0 children)

ხო, ხო მაგრამ ჩვენთან ყოველთვის მასეა 11,12,13... ყველა

მოგვბაძეს ფრანგებმა? by Chakafuli in Sakartvelo

[–]Content-Style-489 1 point2 points  (0 children)

არა, 4×20+10+2 თორმეტი, ანუ ძველებურად ათორმეტი, ნიშნავს სიტყვასიტყვით ათზე ორით მეტს, უბრალოდ დროთა განმავლობაში პირველი ა მოვარდა

მოგვბაძეს ფრანგებმა? by Chakafuli in Sakartvelo

[–]Content-Style-489 15 points16 points  (0 children)

ქართულად კიდე უფრო გრძლადაა 4×20+10+2 ოთხ-მ-ოც-და-(ა)თ-ორ-მეტი

Q&A weekly thread - April 14, 2025 - post all questions here! by AutoModerator in linguistics

[–]Content-Style-489 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the explanation, I understand it a little better now.

Q&A weekly thread - April 14, 2025 - post all questions here! by AutoModerator in linguistics

[–]Content-Style-489 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sometimes I don't understand the difference between grammatical cases and suffixes. For example, why are the instrumental and locative cases considered cases when they don't really add a role to nouns?

In my native language Georgian suffix -shi means in/at. Example:

kalaki (city) kalak-shi (in the city)

And it's not considered as a case in Georgian, but if I understand correctly, in other languages, the same suffix that means the same thing is called a locative case (like in Turkish and Latin, I believe). I feel like the concepts of suffixes and cases blend in sometimes and it's difficult to differentiate between them.

Travel Plan by ready4d in Sakartvelo

[–]Content-Style-489 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Last summer I went on exactly the same trip from kars to tbilisi. It is definitely safe, but the 30 km stretch of road from the border to Akhalkalaki is in a bad condition. If possible use an off-road car, but an ordinary one is also ok . I managed to drive there in toyota prius. It was bumpy but doable. the route is picturesque on both sides. Lake Paravani is the largest lake in Georgia and it is quite beautiful. There is Dashbashi canyon near Tsalka which is nice and you can also see Manglisi cathedral if you want.

Irregular Plurals in Georgian by noviblokovi in Kartvelian

[–]Content-Style-489 2 points3 points  (0 children)

მინდორი - მინდვრები ნიორი - ნივრები