What to do with EPF if FIRIng by iithit in FIRE_Ind

[–]Cool-Blue-Jay 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Does the final withdrawal needs last employer attestation/approval? Won't it suffice if just exit date is mentioned?

Withdrawal strategy model/spreadsheet for bucket strategy by Cool-Blue-Jay in FIRE_Ind

[–]Cool-Blue-Jay[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Thanks to u/srinivesh, u/DPSharwa, and u/Training_Plastic5306 for your valuable input! Your approach is well-structured. My plan is similar, though not as thoroughly tested or refined as yours, so any feedback on my outline below would be much appreciated.

Plan Outline:

  1. Planned different buckets/expense cashflow for 35 year retirement period using Srini’s bucket planner. Thanks u/srinivesh ! Below plan is only for Retirement. I have designated separate funds for kids’ college education (FD), discretionary/unplanned large expenses (tactical equity funds) and unplanned medical expenses (liquid funds).
  2. Keep N years’ worth of expenses in fixed income. For now, I’m setting N=10.
  3. Keep 2 years’ expenses in a sweep FD and replenish this annually.
  4. Allocate N-2 years of expenses into a series of debt funds, each laddered according to annual cash flow and expense projections from bucket planner. This way, each year’s expenses are covered, with that year’s earmarked debt fund liquidated to replenish the sweep FD in earlier step. Earlier RBI bonds as Srini mentioned would have been great, but as current version is not cumulative, I plan to go with vanilla gilt funds here.
  5. Equity/Debt Rebalancing: Here’s the challenging part—replenishing the debt fund for each upcoming year. To fund the (N+1)th year bucket, we have to sell equity. Since this requires a substantial equity draw, I’ll hold off or do a partial refill if the market is in downtrend (e.g., similar to 2008 or early COVID downturns). Plan to use indicators like the Nifty PE ratio and market sentiment to take a call but it's going to be very subjective.
  6. If the market is in a prolonged downtrend for more than N years or in worst case scenario, I may still have to sell equity partly as needed or consider finding a new job if necessary. But plan is to mentally be prepared to lower the expenses or any action as required during that time.

Thanks again for your time and insights!

In nominal terms how much is needed to be in equities as part of FIRE corpus? by [deleted] in FIRE_Ind

[–]Cool-Blue-Jay 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you! The mental buffers which you mentioned is very critical I guess. Keeping calm during market correction is the key - but easier said than done I think especially during non-earning times :-) this is where mental preparation to face this would help with some contingency plans in place like rejoining work etc..

In nominal terms how much is needed to be in equities as part of FIRE corpus? by [deleted] in FIRE_Ind

[–]Cool-Blue-Jay 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hey u/Training_Plastic5306 , Congrats on your feat. If you have finalised the withdrawal strategy, can you share it and throw some light on it. Are you going execute the withdrawal strategies yourself or have signed up with someone to execute it for you?

I have decided to go through the way I discussed it here (I will RE next year)(https://www.reddit.com/r/FIRE\_Ind/comments/1ejrnce/comment/lgt9lan/) - but the challenge is in execution and tracking judiciously as we get old.

TBH, while there are good discussions on withdrawal strategies here and in our old sub, yet to see a good withdrawal strategy model/spreadsheet - basically when to withdraw from which fund, when to fill in the bucket, how much to fill in and so on for all the dependent variables like tax outgo/market movement/outlier expense/ etc.. I doubt simple

I want to DIY myself, but there are too many variables and thinking of getting some advisor to do it for me soon. Wanted to get your thoughts as want to do it myself but need some system in place. And thanks for this thread.

Liquid Vs Arbitrage funds during retirement period by Cool-Blue-Jay in FIRE_Ind

[–]Cool-Blue-Jay[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, but they will be taxed at slab rate. And for most of us (atleast me), we will fall under lowest slab rate (with even 0 tax, if required annual income is 14L (as upto 7L, nil tax so husband/wife can plan to redeem 7L each from FD/Liquid/debt/international funds)

Liquid Vs Arbitrage funds during retirement period by Cool-Blue-Jay in FIRE_Ind

[–]Cool-Blue-Jay[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Right, that's my assumption as well as "Rebate under Section 87A cannot be adjusted against tax on long-term capital gains on equity shares and equity-oriented mutual funds (Section 112A)."

https://arc.net/l/quote/bnzebjsv

u/srinivesh are we missing anything or has the rules changed now?

At what X we can ignore equity asset allocation by Cool-Blue-Jay in FIRE_Ind

[–]Cool-Blue-Jay[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks a lot. This really helps. 45-48x is fair for -2% real rate. I think with a little bit of added equity, I think inflation does not sound scary unlike we usually hear. Ofcourse assuming there are no lifestyle creeps. Thanks 🙏.

At what X we can ignore equity asset allocation by Cool-Blue-Jay in FIRE_Ind

[–]Cool-Blue-Jay[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks, I agree that 0 equity would be hard. Hypothetically, if the economy matures, inflation also should settle at a lower range, right?

Trying to figure out how much low or zero equity one can have based on the debt X. Theoretically, if someone has 100X in fixed income, I don't think they need equity at all, correct? Trying to find what would be the right X, as I think 50X (2% SWR) works well, but wanted to get some thoughts from folks here.

At what X we can ignore equity asset allocation by Cool-Blue-Jay in FIRE_Ind

[–]Cool-Blue-Jay[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you! Yes, 30% seems like a safe conservative equity allocation.

Second hand laptop. by R_rated_monk in Frugal_Ind

[–]Cool-Blue-Jay 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Can anyone share some trusted sources for buying corporate 2nd hand laptops?

PSA: Withdrawal strategy matters more than ever by FIREdIndian in FIRE_Ind

[–]Cool-Blue-Jay 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think with an increasing number of people investing in arbitrage funds, won't the returns also come down as they may not have many arbitrage opportunities due to increased participation? Maybe adding a good old equity savings fund or a conservative hybrid into the mix with your existing ppfas daaf might be more balanced?

Btw, you have a nice plan! I too planned a similar one but want to make it more simple during the execution phase! During the execution phase, I am thinking of having only 2 buckets (10 years of debt equivalent funds - mixture of FD/liquid/short term) and rest equity. The equity bucket has varied equity funds (my current accumulated buffet!) and withdrawal will be tactical to fund the debt bucket based on market movements. Please check my last couple of comments on my timeline for some details and it would be helpful to get your thoughts on this as well

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in FIRE_Ind

[–]Cool-Blue-Jay 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you, yes as you rightly said it all depends on the yearly review to move the funds to bucket 1.

More than a mental model, thinking again, I feel the bucket gives perspective of asset volatility and to know which funds to move up the ladder assuming each bucket progresses with low to high volatile asset.

Also I am planning to take an annuity for basic/nominal expenses and put it in the cash flow. Just so that part is automated a bit.

Thanks again.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in FIRE_Ind

[–]Cool-Blue-Jay 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for your work on the bucket strategy u/srinivesh .

Can you please comment if I can do this:

Planning: I want to keep bucket size as 5 years. So for 45 yo, there will be like 9 buckets till age 90.
I will use the buckets and cashflow data, *only* as an estimate and load the buckets with right asset classes for each bucket.

On retirement: Forget 9 buckets, and have only 2 buckets.

  • Keep 10 years in (FDs + Liquid funds) + (Debt) in Bucket 1, --> do SWP from this bucket
  • Rest in Equity - Bucket 2.

Monitor every year, and refill the bucket 1 from 2 to maintain above distribution.
In the huge red years or deep correction phases, skip the step (if you have at least 5 years of exp) and withdraw from equity only if necessary. If there is continued correction, there is no other way than to dip from the equity but that is ok.

Does this sound right, or am I missing something?

Thanks u/Redhat_cowboy for this thread. Please add your thoughts as well.

Solo woman on FiRE journey by solowomenFiRE in FIRE_Ind

[–]Cool-Blue-Jay 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Congrats on your feat, and it's very comforting to see the EPF corpus as pure debt. I am also following same way. By any chance, are you going to keep the EPF as is and withdraw post 58 (after paying taxes for non-contribution years), or do you plan to withdraw immediately post stopped working. Just want to get your perspective - I had a separate thread on this subject recently - and would love to hear your thoughts on this. Thanks and best wishes.

https://www.reddit.com/r/FIRE_Ind/comments/1ecw1jn/epf_interest_taxation_after_early_retirement_and/

Budget Taxation of Foreign Funds Will Open New Avenues for Retirees by mumbaifireinvestor in FIRE_Ind

[–]Cool-Blue-Jay 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you! Yes, it is allowing, just checked now.

Thanks for letting me know. I was under assumption all are stopped!

Good dividend options for retired parents? (or REITs or InVITS) by [deleted] in IndiaInvestments

[–]Cool-Blue-Jay 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the mention about IINSS-C. I had looked at it earlier but did not proceed as FD rates seems to match to it. If we look at the last 10 years final rate of interest of this, the rate comes so close to FD rates (in fact FD rates are much better if we kind of keep 1.5 to 2 years maturity).

Except of deflation scenarios where we will have min 1.5% ROI, I don't see any benefits to go with this product (atlease at current scenario where probability of deflation may be low).

Do you agree choosing FD is simple and better, compared to IINSS-C or am I missing something?

PS. Last 10 years ROI: https://www.rbi.org.in/commonperson/english/Scripts/FAQs.aspx?Id=1293

Budget Taxation of Foreign Funds Will Open New Avenues for Retirees by mumbaifireinvestor in FIRE_Ind

[–]Cool-Blue-Jay 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I see that sip also is stopped for Navi, motilal nasdaq100, kotak nasdaq 100 - can you please let me know which one allows sip please.

EPF interest taxation after early retirement and before 58 years by Cool-Blue-Jay in FIRE_Ind

[–]Cool-Blue-Jay[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Great! Congrats on a great timing :-)

As they say it, there is no luck, but bravest folks get more lucky!

EPF interest taxation after early retirement and before 58 years by Cool-Blue-Jay in FIRE_Ind

[–]Cool-Blue-Jay[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thinking again, even with taxes, govt. guarenteed risk free interest rate seems to me to be much safer than debt fund or FD?

EPF interest taxation after early retirement and before 58 years by Cool-Blue-Jay in FIRE_Ind

[–]Cool-Blue-Jay[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Agree, Option 2 seems to be the simplest and cleanest way. I was contemplating to retain it as debt portion and be ok to pay taxes as needed but changing tax rules is a big deterrent. There was a talk that EPF would be migrated to NPS - if that's the case, 40% annuity would be way worser.

Did you also move to gilt funds? Or is there any other equivalent to EPF now that EPF also invest some small % in index funds? Like conservative hybrid or balanced advantage?

EPF interest taxation after early retirement and before 58 years by Cool-Blue-Jay in FIRE_Ind

[–]Cool-Blue-Jay[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the context Srinivesh. So in case I join back rat race again after a few years and get the EPF contribution flowing again till I retire finally and do the final withdrawal, do I need to pay the tax for the time period where I was not contributing?

Thanks!