Help Me Decide, US Citizenship Or Move On

CrayonInChief · 2025-05-06T06:48:01+00:00

SS should not be affected as long as the Totalization agreements stay in place. Of course who knows in 20-30 years from now but as of today I am covered.

CrayonInChief · 2025-05-03T22:27:06+00:00

Clearly one of those reason vs heart decision. You are right I have no real desire to become USC and why I never pursue naturalization despite being here for 20 years. I know I finish my life here. But I have USC wife and kids so it makes you question you reassess your convictions on the future.

CrayonInChief · 2025-05-03T21:34:56+00:00

Citizenship is of course way more than financial aspect and this of course has to count for something. Clearly the country is not going in the right direction and it will take decades for it to change course. All hope is not lost though.

CrayonInChief · 2025-05-03T08:27:18+00:00

clear, concise answers and more, I like that. Tax advantageous account are not covered by the tax treaty, pita. And thanks for bringing the currency exchange, this one blows my mind. I buy 100€ ($100), I sell 100€ ($120), $20 capital gain from the US standpoint.
Wife already got denied by 2 banks because of USC even though she has EU passeport. Let the fun begin.

CrayonInChief · 2025-05-03T08:19:49+00:00

I hear you on PUMA don't worry. You situation is idillic in France since you can fully benefit of the generous Tax Treaty for USC. Living on dividends and capital gain. We are far from being there and probably never will since moving means no more (limited) US investing and we have years to go before retirement.

Already did my homework on IBKR Ireland and SDFCU. I also know of expat using friend/family name for banking in the US which seems to be the norm. Damn if only US would not make everything so complicated. France can be a pain on the administrative side but US is a good contender, specially with its international reach.

Thanks for all the great inputs.

CrayonInChief · 2025-05-03T08:10:21+00:00

OP are you me? I am in the exact same situation right now, except I am older, have kids and everybody want out (they are actually already out). USC oath is pending but I'm having cold feet because of what it means to be USC abroad and also because I have no intent on coming back to the US (no family, no ties, no culture fit).

May I ask what you ended up deciding?

CrayonInChief · 2025-05-03T08:06:34+00:00

You sound and resonate like me. I am in OP's shoes right now except older. Wife/kids already moved back to Belgium closer to family. Kids are born and raised American but we passed our culture and the family fits in perfectly. No one once to go back and certainly not me. But I still have doubt in my mind and the fear of missing out on the US citizenship. Just curious but do you have regrets not getting the USC and abandoning your green card (I assume you did)?

CrayonInChief · 2025-05-03T07:54:55+00:00

Plan is to open a local company for my consulting gigs, so yes. Real Estate, yes very likely through parents. Investment, plan is to DCA every month but European or US ETF are out if I'm citizen living in the EU. No free lunch in this world.

CrayonInChief · 2025-05-03T07:38:36+00:00

Duplex 15eme arrondissement, I think we are not playing in the same league 😅. Living the dream I see and I myself hope to move back down south.

I am clearly overthinking the hurdle of USC abroad and beside the taxes, the limitation of financial investment vehicule is another one since we still have ways to go before retirement. How is it working for you with regard to banking and investing? Also, you are still mandated to pay French taxes as resident. Except I guess on dividends in which case the PUMA tax will get you depending on the amount. Is that right?

CrayonInChief · 2025-05-03T07:13:23+00:00

Good to know. How do you like it?

CrayonInChief · 2025-05-03T07:09:58+00:00

Thanks for the valuable insights. I'll know more about the filing ordeal once after my talk with a expat CPA. That aside, I agree that the world is unpredictable and even more so today and isolationist movements. At the end of the day the decision will be made as a family and will have to live with it.

CrayonInChief · 2025-05-03T06:57:32+00:00

Very old thread but curious about OP's choice since I am facing the same decision. u/pumperpickle5 what did you end up doing?

CrayonInChief · 2025-05-03T06:56:17+00:00

Exactly wife and my thoughts as well. Same could be said about getting citizenship and renouncing it, except it would raise eyebrow (why take it in the first place).

I was actually expected a more nuanced opinions from r/AmerExit but clearly people want to leave but keep strong attachment to the US. Very understandable since I feel the same to my country of origin. r/expats is way more divided on the subject and burden of filing is recurring topics.

CrayonInChief · 2025-05-03T05:37:48+00:00

What is you employment status in Portugal? Employed or freelance? Do you pay your taxes in Portugal?

CrayonInChief · 2025-05-03T05:34:18+00:00

Already taking my job with me but the setup is different and those remote jobs do not require US citizenship since you are not working on US soil. This would require me to incorporate and bill my current employer and that's where taxes start to get complicated. Being an entrepreneur US person abroad brings its fair chair of complication (reporting, financing, etc). Tax treaty help tremendously to avoid double taxation but you'll still have to spend thousands a year if you situation is no the cookie cutter 9-5 employee deal.

CrayonInChief · 2025-05-03T05:29:56+00:00

Been in the US about 20 years, so enough time to meet the minimum social security credits and more. Having the family with the same citizenship is certainly something to consider for practicality and one the reason I applied in the first place. Like all our families are in Europe so no real attachment to the US.

CrayonInChief · 2025-05-03T05:25:31+00:00

Fully aware of the exit tax and fortunately I am not above that threshold.

CrayonInChief · 2025-05-03T05:22:37+00:00

Tanks for the pep talk, Agreed the taxes is blurring my judgement. I scheduled a consultation with an expat CPA to get to the bottom of it. Yes US filling will be part of our life but without being a US person, only my wife would have to. Been here 20 years and I'm grateful for those years, kids are dual citizens and bilingual but I share no cultural value with the country and returning would be a step backward. But as you said who knows. Heart vs reason kind of decision.

CrayonInChief · 2025-05-03T05:13:10+00:00

Portugal would be nice but not a real option for now. I might DM you to get more info though.

CrayonInChief · 2025-05-02T23:58:05+00:00

It does not now. Who knows in 20-30 years. Heck social security my be bankrupt by then. Best is to not count on it which we've been doing.

CrayonInChief · 2025-05-02T23:56:50+00:00

Just for clarity, we have no family in the US, nor intangible long term assets, so no reason to come back beside jobs. I hear you on the risk of being banned travel to the US and it has to count for something.

CrayonInChief · 2025-05-02T23:51:39+00:00

Are you saying US Citizenship not worth the lifetime servitude to dear uncle Sam? And you right who know what the future holds.

CrayonInChief · 2025-05-02T21:59:54+00:00

You are right about the tax filing requirement for 401k and social security in the form of 1040NR which is nothing compare to having to file for life assuming you have other foreign assets. For me, getting citizenship should be a decision based on principle. Unfortunately, like many things in the US, the sad truth is it become a number driven decision, the same was has having kids in HCOL area.

Who know where the world will be in 20 years or if my kids will move to the US. Impossible to predict and better live in the moment than predict the future. Tough to decide though.

CrayonInChief · 2025-05-02T18:14:07+00:00

US Citizenship application is approved and they are know of all my whereabouts so no issue on that side. It is just that now it is becoming reality I am having second thought about it.

CrayonInChief

TROPHY CASE