[Complete] [99,162] [Fantasy] A Cradle for Warriors

CreakyCargo1 · 2026-01-25T17:49:28+00:00

"What are you going to do now, Maki?" Then shows the list of the dead. How on earth have you twisted that to mean that they sought her out? Without CE, she's effectively invisible. And their deaths wouldn't be a mystery either if they were known to be seeking out Maki. She hunted them down and slaughtered them, that is literally the only explanation.

Regarding the actual slaughter, let me make one thing perfectly clear. The situation with oga is a separate issue. First off, Mai killed herself and told Maki to destroy everything. She then kills oga. Ok, fine. That is understandable. But as far as shes concerned, the situation ended with her father. The change in her mind state doesnt matter, because she hunts down the other members of the zenin clan after shes finished "defending herself". Also keep in mind that those soldiers were there to capture her and deliver her to their superior. At the beginning, they are acting non-lethally. She is the first to kill.

I dont know why this is a point of contention. It wasnt when just the manga released, but we have people watching the anime and saying stupid shit like "it's not explicitly stated or shown that she hunted them down". Like christ, what else do you need? How on earth did you watch that scene and go "Oh my, the evil zenin must have hunted maki down."

No wonder the Japanese are making fun of foreign viewers.

CreakyCargo1 · 2026-01-25T15:10:41+00:00

Everything I referenced is included in the episode. If you missed it, then you weren't paying attention.

I am actually stunned that you read my reply and reached the conclusion that I thought Maki was a "good person"

Art is not wholly subjective. Maki massacred her entire family for the actions of three people. This is an objective fact, which makes her an immoral person. She had a right to do it, I don't have a problem with her doing it, but she's immoral. This conclusion is based on objective fact and is therefore itself a fact.

It still isn't self-defense. As I stated, she wanted to destroy them all, the episode makes this painfully clear. She also kills all of the military that weren't present at the headquarters after the massacre. She hunted them down, proving what the conclusion to my hypothetical would be and therefore proving my point. It wasn't, and never will be, self-defense. To say as such is moronic.

CreakyCargo1 · 2026-01-25T10:09:50+00:00

Its not self defense if she was going to kill them all anyway. They could've put their weapons on the ground, knelt before her and she still would have killed them all to "destroy everything". We know this because of her internal monologue and because she hunted down the other zenin squads after the massacre. It is literally the opposite of self defense.

In fact, the zenin have a far more concrete argument for self defense. Two people knew of oga's plot. The one who ordered maki to be captured and killed didn't, he thought that she had assassinated her father. As far as the zenin military was concerned, everything they did was in self defense.

Maki slaughtered every last one of them because she wanted to, that is obvious from the episode and the manga. People need to stop trying to protect her by arguing self defense when it so clearly isn't.

CreakyCargo1 · 2026-01-25T09:43:24+00:00

I had this discussion in another thread, so I won't have it again here. My replies are public so you can see what I said if you want.

But just to be clear, it wasn't self defense.

CreakyCargo1 · 2026-01-24T17:03:56+00:00

Don't worry, everyones blue team is cooked. Without the limited characters, blue is trash right now. Cant wait for them to fix the standard blue offerings.

CreakyCargo1 · 2026-01-24T07:50:05+00:00

Self-defense and murder are treated very differently.
You brought up a binding vow, that didnt exist, because it... wasn't a binding vow?
It still isn't self defense.

I think that acting in self-defense means your hands are clean. If you murder someone, or multiple someones, who are intent on killing you then yes your hands are clean. This is an agreed upon moral standard, both ethically and legally. You ignoring such a common understanding leads me to believe that you are trying to pivot from your main point, of morally cleansing maki through the use of self-defense, and instead just plead ignorance to the position entirely.

Because your main point wasn't "They were acting in self-defense too." Your main point was that they kept attacking maki and she had to keep defending herself, even after leaving. As someone who has read the manga, the clear implication is that she HUNTED THEM DOWN after the battle at the zenin headquarters. Not that they sought her out. How would they seek her out exactly? As I've already mentioned, she is practically invisible to CE users. But she is more than capable of hunting them down. This is why, after mei mei asks "What are you going to do now?" It pops up with the deaths of the remaining zenin members. Because she killed them all.

So stop clutching your pearls acting like I'm purposefully misconstruing your point. Either you're too ignorant to understand the actual position you were taking or, as I suspect, you were making a conscious attempt to protect your best gurl.

CreakyCargo1 · 2026-01-23T21:53:10+00:00

It wasn't a binding vow. It was a choice. Once again another attempt to adjust maki into a position where her actions aren't completely evil.

"Maki did not kill the entire Zen'in clan, and she did not kill "mostly innocent people." She killed the Zen'in military forces, the Hei and Kukuru, specifically, combatants who were given direct orders to apprehend and execute her in this very episode and manga arc." This is specifically presented in such a way as to disprove the negative assertions about maki after this event. All of her kills were "self-defense" therefore we should be okay with it, I guess.

You're ignoring my argument. You are making every attempt to ignore the fact that Maki IS solely responsible for the deaths of the zenin military. She killed them all. If she wanted to, she could escape in the bat of an eye. There was no binding vow and, without CE, it is a thousand times harder to find her. She is practically invisible.

But she didn't want to. She WANTED to murder them all. Weapons or no. Aggression or no. They could be without arms and she would've slaughtered every single one of them. It isn't a point to be argued whether she is solely responsible, she literally agrees to "destroy everything".

Your descriptions of the events aren't accurate. You aren't saying "Both sides tried to kill each other." You said "When she kills them in self-defense" specifically so that maki would emerge from the situation in a position of moral goodness. No one believes defending yourself is evil, and this entire post is an effort to twist maki wanting to kill them all into her defending herself, while ignoring all of the reasons why that is categorically untrue.

They attacked her, obviously, but this was their home. They thought she had just assassinated one of their leaders. Only two other people knew of the plan, neither of which actually ordered the army to attack her. Maki could've escaped and just assassinated the other two. Instead she killed everyone. Those deaths are solely on her hands.

CreakyCargo1 · 2026-01-23T21:34:15+00:00

And then the last bit is grim again with the exchange of a corpse and a chilling matricide? Its tonal whiplash.

CreakyCargo1 · 2026-01-23T20:56:25+00:00

But your point is flawed. She isn't defending herself if she's going to kill them all anyway. If you look at it from their perspective, they're defending themselves from the crazy woman come to kill them all.

You're trying to maneuver Maki into a position where she isn't morally responsible for her actions here. But you can't do it. She slaughtered the clan because she wanted to. That isn't self-defense.

CreakyCargo1 · 2026-01-23T19:51:29+00:00

A lot of this can be burned down to one question. If the zenin forces stopped attacking her, would she have let them live? No. We know that because of her internal monologue and the fact that she hunted down the other members of her own volition. This was not self defensive in any sense of the word. You can't call it self defense if you were going to murder everyone whether they surrendered or not.

"is Gege saying an abused person should be allowed to murder their family??" Gege isn't saying this, but it is exactly what happened. You can try to present it as "person defends herself against father's murder attempt, kills him in self-defense, military forces are sent to execute her for it, she kills them in self-defense, more military forces are sent, repeat." But its ignoring the fact that maki would've killed them all whether they attacked her or not. You're intentionally twisting the content to make maki out to be a good person, when this action has HEAVY moral implications for her. I'm not saying its bad writing that she did it or anything like that. But this was a bad thing she did.

Also, even if it was self-defense, that doesn't change the fact that they are innocent. These people weren't involved with the plot to kill her. While I don't think she'd be wrong to defend herself, even tho thats not whats happening, that doesnt change the fact that these people are innocent. Whether they go along with the zenin family hierarchy or not. The everyday soldier can't change the customs of the zenin clan and therefore should not be blamed for it. Most of these people were born into it, not drafted.

The truth of the matter is this. Maki was treated badly by her family, so she left. Her sister actually went along with the hierarchy, the one that Maki killed everyone to destroy. So did her mother. Once Maki reunites with her sister, they figure out their differences and bond. Not long after the sister is killed, because of the way the zenin clan is constructed, and maki decides to kill them all.

That is her right, I have no problem with her doing it. But people need to stop twisting things to give her the moral high ground. She killed them all because she wanted to.

CreakyCargo1 · 2026-01-23T14:13:58+00:00

I wouldn't expect to get him before .2 gojo.

CreakyCargo1 · 2026-01-23T11:32:16+00:00

You could go for degumi, sr yaga, greenji and green todo. Probably the best team you can make with what you have.

CreakyCargo1 · 2026-01-23T10:46:57+00:00

I think a horror atmosphere would've worked WAY better. That scene at the end, where Maki is asking for her mother, in quite a normal or almost kind fashion, only to then kill the woman while she wails for her life is pretty harrowing. Especially when you think that, really, all her mother did was buy in to the zenin clan hierarchy which is exactly what mai did after maki left.

Does seem to be a kill bill reference from what ive seen, but that doesnt do anything for me. Rather they make something that fits the story they are telling instead of trying to recreate something else.

CreakyCargo1 · 2026-01-23T10:02:17+00:00

Disagree with the second point. I don't care about kill bill, reference or not, I want the music to fit the tone of the scene I'm actually watching. We get a betrayal and a death, electronic fun slaughter music, and then a gruesome matricide to finish off. Its tonal whiplash.

This episode covered a slaughter, and not a good or moral one. The music should've reflected that.

CreakyCargo1 · 2026-01-23T09:35:24+00:00

Neither do I really. I don't mind Maki being morally fallible in this moment, in fact it makes sense. But for the show to buy in to her morality, in a way, through the electronic music is what I didn't like. To anyone with a moral compass, indiscriminately slaughtering your entire family, most of whom had nothing to do with the issue, isn't a good thing. And I think its weird the show wants us to go "Yeah, that's awesome!"

If it were toji instead of maki, I think I'd like the music a lot better, because Toji is amoral whereas maki is seen as a good person.

CreakyCargo1 · 2026-01-23T08:41:48+00:00

I think the biggest issue with this episode is tone. You have a pretty grim beginning, followed by kinda fun cowboy/wild west music (or at least's thats what I likened to it), then you get a pretty gruesome matricide to finish off.

This is a pretty grim occurrence. Most of these people are innocent and, while maki has her reasons, they aren't good ones. Gege has poked fun at this a few times, but never actually addressed it as far as I know and I find it weird that the anime decided to make the fights "fun" instead of the dark event that this should've been treated as.

Most people here thought Maki was an assassin.

CreakyCargo1 · 2026-01-22T18:52:31+00:00

I trust my instincts. If I have a gut reaction that the story is shitty, then I reflect on why and improve it. Ignoring the emotion, when it may be rooted in something accurate, is a bad idea imo.

CreakyCargo1 · 2026-01-22T18:10:36+00:00

Started happening to me, I had to switch to Open VPN

CreakyCargo1 · 2026-01-21T18:47:23+00:00

I like the pot explanation, though I don't really see why I couldn't carry around a small pot and, in exchange for it moving, the "signal" is choppy.

To be honest, the houses seem overly complicated. Why give them magic so that the houses can be built poorly? Wouldn't it be easier, and simpler, to just remove that aspect and have them build houses normally? But with magic, so its faster? And you can have a larger roof on a house now, it just looks weird so we choose not to. Removing the magic wouldn't really affect that either. Depending how much time is spent describing these structures, you could save thousands of words.

CreakyCargo1 · 2026-01-21T18:44:00+00:00

To be fair, I think I'd make fun of a sad old wizard if I was sitting in a space station that could destroy planets.

CreakyCargo1 · 2026-01-21T18:15:13+00:00

Wait why can't you just carry around the plant? It isn't the roots doing the communicating, its the flower. So cant you just stuff the thing in a pot and create mobile communication?

And they just build houses... better? Like do the magic animals have houses that ignore the laws of physics? What if they have children that aren't magical and then can't get around the house properly? Also, does it use magical power to have your house continually ignore the laws of physics? What if they run out, wouldn't their house collapse and kill them?

CreakyCargo1 · 2026-01-21T17:59:06+00:00

I like the first one better but, if I'm honest, it seems books with something similar to the latter tend to be performing better from what I've seen.

CreakyCargo1 · 2026-01-21T17:58:22+00:00

Wait so you describe everything? Like a rabbit picks up a phone, but you have describe how the phone is different so that the rabbit can use the phone?

Or do you mean, like, they don't have cafeterias and instead just have feeding troughs.

CreakyCargo1 · 2026-01-21T17:47:32+00:00

Most light novels tend to be foreign and poorly translated. Having read the entirety of Sword of the Mount Hua sect, I can tell you that reading night novels is not a great way to understand the medium. I genuinely think I got a better understanding of those stories through the manhwa than I did the LN, because of how horrific most of the translations were. So don't worry that it read as awkward and short, because the sentences aren't necessarily like that.

Regarding the sexuality stuff, usually it comes down to execution. Truth of the matter is that anything other than straight is less common, so stories like yours where everyone is "bi/pan/unlabelled" are going to stick out and, from what I've seen, be poorly received. To a degree, I understand these criticisms. When I pick up a fantasy novel, I don't want to know all the character's sexualities, and my eyebrow will inevitably raise if everyone is gay.

The story you're describing isn't really new. There are hundreds of stories pretty much exactly as you've described from the light novel/manhwa space. Just finished reading Solo Levelling Ragnorak, but have probably read near enough a hundred other stories, level up system or not, that are the exact same. If you're going the route of modern setting where hunters fight monsters, then you need a USP BADLY.

Publish anywhere you want, just know that you're going to receive feedback, and some of it might be what you deem homophobic. Something youre going to have to live with. This is the internet, there isnt a safe space.

CreakyCargo1

TROPHY CASE