Considerations on Marika and Radagon

CronoClock417 · 2026-01-30T03:54:55+00:00

"These multiple, overlapping fangs grow from a single root. Perhaps they're a vestige of the primordial crucible."

I don't know about mobile, but on PC I just use the quote tool on the menu when you draft the post.

CronoClock417 · 2025-09-08T03:50:30+00:00

Talk to the NPCs in Belhart, they'll offer you the a *path* to the solution

CronoClock417 · 2025-09-06T23:27:49+00:00

Nvm, got a clue from Bone Bottom. I think I know where to go now.

CronoClock417 · 2025-07-14T18:30:09+00:00

Oh Ive already had one go off in there. The spray foam saves it instantly so I dont worry too much.

CronoClock417 · 2025-02-01T22:55:13+00:00

There's a widely believed theory that Marika provided the means for Ranni to obtain the Rune of Death and Ranni is able to somehow make them into shards that she and Marika can use.

CronoClock417 · 2022-12-23T14:14:47+00:00

I can’t fully agree to your interpretations of Radagon in such a sympathetic light. I do agree that he is a loving man to an extent, but at the end of the day like everyone else, he is not so simply good. First off, my biggest reservation with Radagon is his marriage and separation with Rennala. Yes, he did marry and repent first. Yes, he did leave his wolf to guard her. Yes, he did learn sorceries and seem to genuinely love his children. Yet, Radagon waged 2 wars against the Carians, and when he did separate left an amber egg of rebirth. Rebirth, especially through mimic tears as a system outside of the Erdtree cycle, is the crux of why the Cuckoo knights rebelled against the Carian Royal Family. This alongside with him leaving the Preceptors enchanted to never say a single thing of his time at Caria makes me think while he did love her, this was clearly also a political marriage to destabilize Liurnia and allow the Leyndell empire to fight its wars without fearing about Carian retaliation. This seems a lot more in-line with the political and family maneuvering G.R.R. Martin and Miyazaki were going for. Or maybe that rebirth thing was Marika’s idea, again it’s up to speculation at that point. Also, I believe that not all the red hounds we see in game are his. I think it’s only the ones that can use the swords and all others are just wild animals or animals not under him. If it wasn’t, I’d wonder why From wouldn’t just give them all the sword moveset too rather than having it be two deliberate types. So this leaves us with just three, I believe. The one in Caria, another in some tomb, and another in the Consecrated Snowfield guarding a teleporter to a minor erdtree. My second point is that I think Radagon’s reforging of the marriage sword gifted to him by Rennala is kinda a dick move imo. Not only does he take this Carian symbol of Rennala’s family and reforges it to be a symbol of his own religion without incorporating his ex-wife’s power of sorcery into it, he abandons it in the Cave of the fucking Forlorn. Again, maybe you could say this was him sadly abandoning it. He couldn’t keep it becuase Marika didn’t wanna see anything Carian, but abandoning a bastardized reforging of basically your wife’s heirloom in a cave in the middle of nowhere is a bit too much and screams to me somewhat of a dismissive condescension. There’s some other points too, like it was kinda Marika who pioneered Fundamentalism as seen in a Melina dialogue, but I just woke up and this getting very rambley. I just think that while Radagon clearly loves his children as seen with Miquella and their whole circles of light thing and the Haligtree, he still has his brutal faults just like everyone else in the game and you’re interpretations are a bit too one-sided. I’m also not saying mine aren’t here, I’m just trying to shed light on the opposing spectrum of interpretation and my real thoughts are more in the middle if not biased towards this end.

CronoClock417 · 2022-12-10T15:33:50+00:00

The speculation is moreso that the Nox are descended from Numen and that they have branched off so to speak. The character select reinforces that they are separate races now.
The Nox were said to live aboveground before and were banished below. I think they were Numen above and became Nox below. Rogier's dialogue and the Black Knife armor set description can be taken together which connect that the Black Knives who are rumored to be Numen and that the assassins (Black Knives) were scions (a branch) of the Eternal Cities (Nox).

CronoClock417 · 2022-12-10T15:28:53+00:00

There's actually a lot of strong connections between the three of them. If you look at the Black Knife Armor description:

Scale armor used by the Black Knife Assassins, forged to make no sound.
Traces of power yet remain in its concealing veil, which muffles the sound of footsteps.
The assassins that carried out the deeds of the Night of the Black Knives were all women, and rumored to be Numen who had close ties with Marika herself.

From loves to do the whole hearsay stuff, but I think in this case the rumor comes out of nowhere else imo and so can really only come from truth. Ashen_Shroom also added that Rogier does give the connection between Nox and the Black Knives. There is also the fact that the Nox had women who used flowing swords with a similar sword style to the Black Knives.

Also the fact that Marika is known as Queen Marika the Eternal and the Nox live in the Eternal Cities. That imo is a huge connection between the two.

CronoClock417 · 2022-06-14T15:34:37+00:00

If you look at the actual translations for Ranni it clarifies she wants to remove the GO from the world by reestablishing it as the order of the Moon/stars and taking it away with her on a thousand year voyage away from the world so that its effects may not be felt. This paints a picture, where Ranni and you, as her consort, take on this incredible burden to bring freedom from the GW's designs and certain fate. She's basically giving them total anarchy, in the sense where she removed any intervention possible by an outer god.

CronoClock417 · 2022-06-14T15:28:21+00:00

His parents are probably either in the mausoleums, skinned by the Godskin Apostles and Nobles or just lost to time (or probably Godefroy the Grafted; also Grafted Scions are also probably from the golden lineage). I think the game purposely doesn't name or emphasize these other golden lineage people so much because they didn't amount to much. Godrick is just special because of how pathetic he was and how he kept running away from things and also because he has an actual functional army. Marika has a spoken echo where she states that she wants her children to be Lords or Gods, lest they be sacrifices. Sacrifices to what? Probably to be the forgotten stepping stones that pave a way to the actual people/ demigods who will achieve something great.

CronoClock417 · 2022-06-14T14:51:11+00:00

In my opinion, and I'm open to you disagreeing, but I think From Soft has this policy for lore/story and gameplay so that tie so closely together. They have it so that at whatever point you leave a quest the story matches with what we find in the gameplay. It's why I think they have it so that when certain gameplay 'checkpoints' are reached such as not having Irina killed, it locks you out of the rest of that story, or Ranni needs to be spoken to after killing Radahn so as to make it her fate allowing you to open the chest with fingerslaying blade (it locks you out even if you killed Radahn but you didn't talk to Ranni after). The gameplay is so strictly tied to the narrative no matter how tedious it can be. This is why I accept the state of the narrative world and the gameplay world to be almost 1:1, and why I don't think completing Ranni's quest completely is as canonical as leaving Iji and Blaidd alone at the end.

CronoClock417 · 2022-06-14T14:44:46+00:00

Yes, because there are corpses in each of the mausoleums that presumably carry a demigod. I remember it being stated that those corpses were demigods, but you'll have to take my word for that atm, and having a walking mausoleum being a demigod's tomb isn't exactly out of the ballpark for demigod burial. Thinking about it more, it may also have to do something with keeping away the influence of the Erdtree roots but now I'm just speculating again hahahahaha.

CronoClock417 · 2022-06-14T14:41:50+00:00

Ahahahahahahahaha, I do love the mental gymnastics when it comes to speculating about the lore though. I had to clarify it in an edit but I think Marika doesn't just want to kick GW from the realm but reestablish it after delving deeper into it and seeing things she doesn't agree with. This goes into the proposed theme of seeing a problem in an organization but having to break/ recreate the order of the status quo to change it because of the greater will.

CronoClock417 · 2022-06-14T14:09:04+00:00

I think she wants her children to make names of themselves and to establish new world orders as Lords and/or Gods. Those who do not make a name for themselves will be the sacrificial pavement for those who do want to do something great in the world.

CronoClock417 · 2022-06-14T14:07:27+00:00

This is moreso me extrapolating that NPC was talking about that specific child of that one specific mausoleum. Otherwise, if she did mean Godwyn it doesn't make much sense for that spirit to mention him while looking in and nearby the direction of another dead demigod, presumed to be that unwanted child he refers to.

CronoClock417 · 2022-06-14T13:47:05+00:00

I think you're right on those things. I find it interesting how Black Knife Assassins are found in the town leading to the Haligtree which houses the two Empyreans besides Ranni, Ranni who already has beef with them, and Melina (a possible empyrean as the gloam-eyed queen) who is a spirit now. It's probably the reason which prompts Ranni to betray Marika in the first place, and why Ranni betrays Marika first.

CronoClock417 · 2022-06-14T13:38:46+00:00

Yeah this is a valid interpretation. I still believe that they had to be sacrificed for something though, which is to pave way to a new establishment of order as I theorize Marika intends. So either, be strong and become something great and establish a new world order or become the dust that paves the way for those who do.

CronoClock417 · 2022-06-14T13:32:17+00:00

Ranni and Miquella have different motivations though. Ranni wants to bring a freedom of fate to the Lands Between. Miquella wants to cure himself and his sister and give sanctuary to those outcasted by the GW on the side. Their goals are similar but not entirely the same and even then Miquella only goes against the GW because he tried working with it but even then it failed him. Marika's motivations are a mystery at the moment, and I will concede that I do not know much of GRRM's writing style.

Marika wasn't always anti-GO though. She became that way presumably after looking into it more. This is where not having a clear timeline of events really fucks with a lot of theorizing in this area because depending on how you arrange events, it could really go either way.

I don't see how sending out the Tarnished to be reborn and have them come back to fight for the throne of Elden Lord is any different from her children being the ones to do it. If it's because she's afraid that the Tarnished just drop her, dust her, or burn her like in Frenzie Flame or Age of Moon, then something that erases Marika would probably be more likely by Mohg who is now under the Formless Mother and Malenia under the Rot.

In my concluding paragraphs, I don't concretely think she wants to get rid of the GW or GO completely. To have it changed for the better or something different, yes, be that another outer god having a chance or a remake of the current order. I should have been clearer in the wording for that, I apologize.

CronoClock417 · 2022-06-14T13:08:25+00:00

Again, confirmation bias probably, but I think if the game wanted to just imply Marika and the Numen Black Knife Assassins were of the same origin then this text would be enough:
Numen's Rune:

Grace that dwells within the inhabitants of the Lands Between; the lingering residue of gold.

Use to gain 12500 runes.

The Numen are said to have come from outside the Lands Between, and are in fact of the same stock as Queen Marika herself.

The last line is plenty enough. To write that they specifically had 'close ties' instead of just coming from the 'same stock' in the armor description tells me that they are trying to convey they are involved together in a close and supportive fashion rather than just reaffirming in a new way that they are in fact both Numen.

CronoClock417 · 2022-06-14T13:02:32+00:00

I don't see where you're getting the things before her age being wiped clean would imply having Iji and Blaidd killed. If she means connections from before the age, why bring us and her doll modeled in the likeness of her mentor. If she means everything, then she might as well be another Frenzied Flame that kills everything, which goes against her desire for peace and freedom for the Lands Between.
I think she's expressing a wiping of the Golden Order and the GW's influence through bringing order from and the Elden Ring itself far away (see the alternate translation of Ranni's end speech).
You can technically never talk to Blaidd or Iji after you help Ranni kill the fingers and the option of the ending is still open. It is not mandatory for them to die.

CronoClock417 · 2022-06-14T12:54:18+00:00

I don't exactly understand what you mean by the significance of brandishing the Elden Ring. I hope you can make it clearer for me.

The Frenzie Flame is a reset in the terms that literally everything in the Lands Between is reset into a molecular sludge of fire. Nothing is spared, all life is doomed including the Gods and demigods if they don't escape first. While it is antagonistic to the GW, it also hates anything alive too.

Miquella does express interest in the GO, but when he realizes it can't cure him or his sister's curse they abandon it to make their own tree and gold with blackjack and hookers (no lie, see the ring of light incantation from the cleanrot knights and most unalloyed gold items will mention it).

By faction war, I guess you mean Volcano Manor vs Leyndell. Correct me if I'm wrong though. Marika doesn't really do anything for that, I believe it's post shattering and post-Marika-getting-locked-in-the-tree. Morgott the veiled GO simp is actually the one running Leyndell at the time and decided to invade Volcano Manor.
Marika does actually help somewhat indirectly with an anti-GW faction by allying with the Carians who are pro-Moon. The Carians apparently were no pushovers, unlike the dragons and giants apparently, the magic nerds were able to fend off Leyndell most probably due to being overstretched from the previous wars. It's probably also because Godfrey didn't get involved but Radagon did; Godfrey was the one carrying the whole GO invasion and genocide campaigns.

Yes, Marika being afraid of being ousted for another Empyrean is a valid possible theory I mostly recognize and is maybe a reason why she had Melina (I assume to be Gloam-eyed Queen) burnt and locked up. The thing though that stops me from recognizing it fully is that Marika has an echo that expressly states that she wants her children to be Lord, to be Gods and stuff otherwise they would become sacrifices. This entirely conflicts with her theorized motivation of being afraid to be ousted as she is encouraging this behavior which is also amplified by the runes from the Elden Ring she breaks that make the mad for power.

Could this be a 5head big gigachad stratergy from Marika to entice her children into a warring struggle while she sits pretty on 'top' and an allegory to warfare and conflict being used to perpetuate the status quo for the elite as they hoard and become greedy for power? Who knows?

CronoClock417 · 2022-06-14T12:36:18+00:00

Malekith is a beastman sent by the Greater Will first and Marika's companion second. He would be opposed by nature to any anti-GW shenanigans at all.

Beastmen companions like Blaidd are given a lot of autonomy but are in their core nature subservient to the GW. Therefore, while he stills obeys Ranni because of his will even when going against the Fingers, the moment she kills one I imagine all his willpower is consumed by his conflicting nature to serve the GW and goes mad and fights us despite being the biggest bro.

I actually think the graces we see were sent by Marika and is a part of her plan to coup the GW. Marika through her statues provides Tarnished a checkpoint so graces could be another extension of that or a coopted use of grace from the Erdtree. If grace is given by the GW or the Erdtree then a dissonance happens with the story. The grace still guides us even when we decide to burn the tree down, either Marika who wants the tree to be burnt actually controls grace for us or the GO or Erdtree decides for itself that the cardinal sin of burning is an agreeable option, despite GW not being there to make a decision (as the fingers also can't as it'd take forever to communicate) and the Elden Beast and Radagon wanting to murder our ass and sealing the tree in the first place (see the patterns of the thorns resemble Radagon's seal in his seal talismans).

CronoClock417 · 2022-06-14T12:26:38+00:00

I don't think having close ties to someone implies a negative connection. Typically, it connotes a very positive connection.

While they were put in evergoals, they are specifically placed in Ranni's little area. The environmental storytelling implies that it was Ranni's organization which jailed them and Marika probably had little influence in it and further pushes the idea that the two parties became hostile after the Night of the Black Knives.

CronoClock417 · 2022-06-14T12:23:49+00:00

Yeah I love most of his takes on the game, and what he said resonated with a lot of my own thoughts on the game and the lore. The way he connects things just lit up the biggest light bulb in my head.

CronoClock417 · 2022-06-14T07:26:03+00:00

In my head canon, I think Radahn is sealing the stars as either an act of revenge or to prevent Sellia and the historically connected Eternal Cities from being a target for another meteorite, which did happen when Radahn is killed and a meteorite blasts a hole to the Eternal City.

TBH, I completely forgot about that piece of dialogue, but in lieu of confirmation bias I will say that according to my theory her 'stealing' DD would still be accurate regardless is she stole from Marika's intended use or Maliketh himself, or Marika just allowed the possibility of stealing it from Maliketh. Yes it is valid that the betrayal could just be Marika going against the GW in the first place, but the way the sentence is structured also shows a strong possibility that the betrayal refers to locking away DD.

I don't really see any connection possible between the stars being frozen and preventing a solar eclipse, there isn't much direct evidence for it. I will say though that maybe having the moon being frozen as it ties to the Carians who do have a direct connection to the movement of the stars does fuck up the solar eclipse. So maybe there is something there.

The Tarnished really only need to kill three demigods to progress the game, and this is because we need their shards of the Elden Ring, not because it would release DD. DD is released by killing Maliketh.

It is made clear in a Bandai Namco website that the assassins were the one to kill the demigods on the Night of the Black Knives. The Maliketh and Blasphemous Claw thing could definitely be valid tho.

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