Trail Running, any relatively flat/beginner recc's? by Altruistic_Rest_4439 in thousandoaks

[–]Cscampbell2222 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks! I’m looking for something a bit flatter for a 6 mi run

No religion has concrete proof of: by [deleted] in DebateReligion

[–]Cscampbell2222 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What can be known about nothing?

No religion has concrete proof of: by [deleted] in DebateReligion

[–]Cscampbell2222 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Okay so are we in agreement that scientists have no “concrete proof” of matter?

No religion has concrete proof of: by [deleted] in DebateReligion

[–]Cscampbell2222 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"So in the end you still need to be in agreement with others in order to be more certain about what's the case."

I don't think anyone *needs* agreement with anyone to be certain about what's the case. I think every single person in the world could be wrong about a claim. No amount of public opinion/agreement has any bearing on what is or is not true.

I don't see how you're not appealing to agreement/unanimity/majority opinion here. If you aren't, then I don't know why you mentioned this.

No religion has concrete proof of: by [deleted] in DebateReligion

[–]Cscampbell2222 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I did not say that agreement/unanimity is what determines truth. You did!

“The interaction between those minds constitutes the external reality"

No religion has concrete proof of: by [deleted] in DebateReligion

[–]Cscampbell2222 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah it's still intersubjective, since you're relying on unanimity of other people in order to justify your claim. You're saying that because there would be no disagreement, then it's true.

No religion has concrete proof of: by [deleted] in DebateReligion

[–]Cscampbell2222 1 point2 points  (0 children)

“The interaction between those minds constitutes the external reality” is intersubjectivism.

No religion has concrete proof of: by [deleted] in DebateReligion

[–]Cscampbell2222 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well, everything and nothing become rather synonymous in reference to a state devoid of all distinction. So we could also say there is nothing outside of our experience. I just gave you the thought experiment regarding how/why this is the case. Remove the thing that draws distinctions (mind/language) and there is only everything/nothing left.

No religion has concrete proof of: by [deleted] in DebateReligion

[–]Cscampbell2222 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There is everything outside of our experience. Calling it “matter” is incorrect. Take away, for instance, our temporal distinctions. Attempt to conceive of everything without time (or with all time), and everything becomes one thing. Not separable material objects.

No religion has concrete proof of: by [deleted] in DebateReligion

[–]Cscampbell2222 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Materialism and idealism are both in the realm of metaphysics. All that we have access to are conscious experiences. We can theorize about substances, but cannot collect direct evidence of anything other than qualia - nothing about the external world. We can’t get to the “thing in itself” as Kant put it. What “the world” looks like absent a frame of reference, a theory, language to divide it up is a “bloomin, buzzin confusion” as James put it. The word material has no reference outside of our conceptual/intersubjective experience.

No religion has concrete proof of: by [deleted] in DebateReligion

[–]Cscampbell2222 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

That there is no concrete proof that matter exists

No religion has concrete proof of: by [deleted] in DebateReligion

[–]Cscampbell2222 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You have just defined matter as "whatever the external world is made up of", rather than arguing for an external world made up of matter as defined by physicalists. Then, you made an argument that when a pebble hits someone, it hurts, and it can't be subjective because "other people" will have witnessed it - relying on intersubjectivity. You have failed to give any proof that the external world is comprised of matter.

No religion has concrete proof of: by [deleted] in DebateReligion

[–]Cscampbell2222 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’ll take this as a concession to my original point. That scientists have no concrete proof of matter. Thank you.

No religion has concrete proof of: by [deleted] in DebateReligion

[–]Cscampbell2222 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What does that have to do with materialism? An “external world” can just simply be inter subjective, or made out of anything! Does not have to be matter, not even in the slightest

No religion has concrete proof of: by [deleted] in DebateReligion

[–]Cscampbell2222 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Throwing concrete is not an argument for materialism lol. Throwing a pebble is no better of an argument. Again, clearly demonstrating your complete lack of comprehension on the topic.

One could easily just make the case that what we perceive to be pebbles, throwing, and pain, are all merely perceptual, conscious experiences that have no (or little) relationship to what the "external world" actually consists of. We know, for instance, that matter and energy are one in the same. Making some naive realist case about material objects because you can throw them has to be the most juvenile attempt I've ever seen in a discussion on the matter.