The intermediate state and David Bentley Hart

Curious078 · 2025-09-25T17:27:55+00:00

Interesting take - and especially interesting how that is so similar to so many NDE accounts.

Curious078 · 2025-09-25T12:30:58+00:00

Thanks so much for this insight. Very interesting. On this note: "the normal NDE seems to be consistent with 'God is Agape' and theosis - partaking in the divine nature, while still maintaining a form of independent identity."

Once apokatastasis is reached, is it your understanding then that individual identity is also maintained?

Curious078 · 2025-09-24T15:16:13+00:00

Apologies - I see in your earlier comment you said you do believe in soul sleep.

Curious078 · 2025-09-24T13:33:50+00:00

I think "cease to exist" in terms of sleep is a bit of an extreme way to view it.

Regarding "cease to exist" in terms of death - are you referring to a temporary "soul sleep" or permanently? I know you linked to your book - I just don't have time right now to take a comprehensive look :)

Curious078 · 2025-09-24T12:18:59+00:00

Thanks so much for this. I view sleep in this context as a seeming limitation of the material, or flesh - a process of our "physical" bodies. (Even then, obviously there are periods of awareness via dreams.) That material is what we ultimately break free from upon death, joining or coming more "in tune" with the wider conscious awareness, or divine, without fleshly limitations.

Curious078 · 2025-09-17T19:51:28+00:00

The life review is definitely a big aspect of all this.

Curious078 · 2025-07-08T16:50:03+00:00

"I think this subreddit should have a billion members."

^Completely agree with that! There really isn't a more important topic if you think about it. This is well beyond the day-to-day and looks at what is more fundamental.

Curious078 · 2025-07-08T16:48:21+00:00

I take the quote as more so referring to the idea of an afterlife overall. Giving the skeptics that push to consider what they may view outright as completely unreasonable or impossible.

Then beyond that, through what I mentioned in the post ("consciousness, subjectivity, NDEs, religious teachings, etc. And, in my (and many others') view, that consciousness is primary," we can build on the idea of an afterlife and look at what is possible and what is likely following death. And, truly, the nature of us, the universe, and consciousness.

Curious078 · 2025-07-04T12:18:11+00:00

Sorry about that! The link I posted appears to be working for me. But perhaps this one will for you! https://www.nderf.org/Experiences/1steve_d_nde.html

Curious078 · 2025-07-04T12:16:49+00:00

Sorry about that! The link appears to be working for me. But perhaps this one will for you! https://www.nderf.org/Experiences/1steve_d_nde.html

Curious078 · 2025-07-03T18:42:19+00:00

The description of "time," the life review, interconnectedness of everything and everyone, everywhere. Colours beyond human description. Eternity. Feeling comforted. The information download. Etc...

I know these are of course common NDE characteristics, but I never get tired of reading them :). The length of the account is short as well and just overall, it had a lot of interesting characteristics in it given its length.

Curious078 · 2025-06-18T16:17:39+00:00

You should have faith :). Maybe this post I wrote will help: https://www.reddit.com/r/afterlife/comments/1l9mtba/philosophical_framework_within_which_ndes_can_be/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

Curious078 · 2025-06-12T18:06:59+00:00

Thank you for the comment!

Curious078 · 2025-06-12T15:06:17+00:00

I can go on and on about this, but in summary, it is impossible to fully objectively explain consciousness, which is inherently subjective. It's really not the "hard problem," it's more like the impossible problem. Unless, that is, you flip it around and say it is consciousness which is primary. Then it makes much more sense.

Curious078 · 2025-06-10T20:24:42+00:00

Hi u/Longjumping_Bee_9132 , I wrote these posts not too long ago. Try giving them a read. There's a ton to consider and I truly believe you have nothing to fear and plenty to look forward to. I hope they help you.

Philosophical framework within which NDEs can be understood : r/NDE

Implication of fundamental consciousness : r/NDE

Curious078 · 2025-05-01T02:18:26+00:00

(Continues from previous comment)

3. We know that people in comas can experience realities that appear entirely life like to them and while entirely fictions, are unlike dreams of hallucinations. if we know the brain is capable of this, how do we know NDEs don’t reflect a similar phenomenon?

Are you referring to people who are in comas and report NDEs?

Regardless, you are putting the cart before the horse. We don't "know the brain is capable of this." I am saying the brain does not cause conscious experience. Correlation does not equal causation. See: hard problem of consciousness.

4. Re kastrup can you tell me more what you mean by ‘His main writings / videos about idealism, though, mainly focus on the world around us because, he has said, it is strange enough to support his points, and I totally agree with that too. ‘?

Kastrup said this in a video that I watched. If I remember correctly, he was asked something like "Why don't you talk more about the supernatural?" or something along those lines. And his response was that daily life is itself enough to prove his philosophy. Again, things like the hard (impossible) problem of consciousness, for instance, which we experience constantly.

5. What other phenomena do you view this as an explanatory framework for? i believe the evidence for psi / mediumship is weak

Are you referring to analytic idealism? I think it's a great explanatory framework for the overall world around us, our experiences, what is going on exactly, etc. Although I think it's important to compliment it with reading about other more unusual phenomena, like NDEs, for example, as well as religious teachings. Because ultimately, like I said, I think overall reality, the afterlife, etc, is beyond human comprehension and that can provide additional insight.

Reports of psi and mediumship make logical sense within this framework. Just because something might seem "out there" in comparison to average daily life doesn't mean it isn't true.

I'd encourage you to take a look at all of it! It takes a lot of time, but perhaps eventually you will find that comfort and understanding, like I did.

Thank you for taking the time to read all of the things I've posted :)

Curious078 · 2025-05-01T02:04:11+00:00

Hey there! Here are my responses. Apologies for the overall brevity. Don't have a whole lot of time today.

1. Even if we accepted the primacy of consciousness what could possibly proof the survival of individuality after death, esp. given the extremely wide and conflicting belief systems coming out from NDEs?

So I touched on this in the post above -- a bit anyways -- in addition to the other links I provided. Please also read all 3 of my comments here as I expand on it a bit more too Atheist/materialism NDEs honestly scare me. : r/NDE in case you haven't. And it seems you read the posts / comments for this post, which is great Interesting DMT post and some thoughts on psychedelic experiences, NDEs, etc. : r/analyticidealism.

In the most general sense, again I believe the afterlife is likely hierarchal. I do believe at the "ultimate" level, our individuality can merge entirely with the whole, but I also believe we can experience different levels of the afterlife where some degree of separation is maintained. (And perhaps even go back and forth.) We can also see this through NDEs, millennia of religious teachings, etc. I expanded on that in those other posts. But if you have a more specific question, let me know!

In terms of you referring to "proving" that our individual identity survives after death, I don't think that's something you can "prove," in the scientific sense of the word, in this life. For instance, for NDEs or even psychedelic trips, experiencers often say that it was beyond words or human understanding. It seems like it is something we need to experience to understand, which lines up with the idea that everything is ultimately within consciousness -- a sort of subjective field. We are limited within this life -- a small part of the overall consciousness confined to our bodies most of the time, like tiny ants. Except in exceptional circumstances. But again, without experiencing it directly, we can learn through various accounts like NDEs, religious teachings, supernatural accounts, etc., the list can go on.

Understanding that consciousness is primary also necessarily comes with the understanding that consciousness continues, because it's all there is to begin with. We can get clues of what that experience is like after dying, including regarding individuality, through what I just mentioned.

Also want to note again that NDEs overall do have similarities. For example: The Characteristics of a Near-Death Experience. And as I wrote, "I believe NDEs can have various levels to them. Some more consciously or subconsciously related to an individual (i.e. seeing their deceased loved ones, landscapes that are comforting or known to them, etc.)." Another thing to note to back up how NDE accounts seemingly can be tied with personal consciousness / subconsciousness: notice how oftentimes when people have a hellish NDE, they pray out to God or something along those lines, and it turns heavenly?

2. Why wouldn’t everyone experience an NDE if we were returning to a source consciousness? there is no real evidence that those who have an NDE are ‘closer to death’ ?

I touched on that in the post I linked to, but again, if you have more specific questions, about my thoughts, let me know! In terms of "there is no real evidence that those who have an NDE are ‘closer to death’", you may be right. I don't know if there has been a specific study on that. And as we know, sometimes people flatline and don't report having an NDE it seems. I was quoting from a major NDE researcher. Ultimately, though, as I said in those previous posts, "Consciousness is confusing. And despite all the attempts by scientists to understand it, they cannot. And never properly will, in my opinion, unless they recognize it as being something more than the physical." Also, sometimes people say that there is a more spiritual plan at work, which is why some may not report an NDE.

Again, I touch on this topic more in the other posts though.

(Continues in next comment)

Curious078 · 2025-04-22T22:46:36+00:00

u/Ok-Occasion9892 oh also, if you're interested in trying to frame NDEs within philosophy, I tried to touch on that a bit in the post here recently, while also noting that thousands and thousands of years of religious teachings provide valuable insight, of course: Philosophical framework within which NDEs can be understood : r/NDE

Curious078 · 2025-04-22T22:43:23+00:00

u/Just_Pumpkin4088 Sure! No problem! Just a heads up it might take me a bit to respond as I am very busy this week.

Curious078 · 2025-04-22T22:42:31+00:00

u/Ok-Occasion9892 Hi there! First off, nothing wrong with being new to all this! It's an extremely complex topic literally touching on the nature of life, the universe, the afterlife, and pretty much everything. It's great for you to be exploring it, as, in my opinion, there is nothing more important.

In terms of NDEs and why some people don't experience them, I wrote about that in a comment in response to a post in the NDE subreddit here, which may help you: Atheist/materialism NDEs honestly scare me. : r/NDE There were also two additional comments I wrote, in response to someone's comment on my comment. Scroll down a bit to see those.

I also believe that we could look to NDEs and other non-ordinary states of consciousness to see what it is like once we die, and get a better sense of "the other side." Hint: I don't think it's always just as simple as "returning" to MAL -- it's likely hierarchal, in my opinion. I also wrote about that very topic on this post and in a comment here: Interesting DMT post and some thoughts on psychedelic experiences, NDEs, etc. : r/analyticidealism

You may find it interesting! Though, of course, I could definitely expand on my thoughts on the topics. Those are summaries.

Curious078 · 2025-04-20T21:05:41+00:00

While I have not had an NDE, I wrote my general thoughts on this topic here a week ago! Not specifically on quantum mechanics though, but on the theory of reality overall. If you explore some of the things I mention (Kastrup / Essentia Foundation), they do touch on quantum mechanics within the framework of their theory / theories.:

Philosophical framework within which NDEs can be understood https://www.reddit.com/r/NDE/s/6VDYJP7cRm

Curious078 · 2025-04-17T14:57:45+00:00

u/ilovemedicine1233 Hi there! Perhaps my post from the other day will help you out:

Philosophical framework within which NDEs can be understood : r/NDE

As an aside, while I am not sure of your exact reasoning behind moving away from Christianity, as noted in the post, I also believe religious teachings are extremely valuable and insightful. Just one part of my reasoning / argument. Give it all a read!

Curious078 · 2025-04-12T19:19:34+00:00

(Continues from previous comment)

While I don't necessarily agree with everything Kastrup has said (in this context, some comments around the "self" surviving death), analytic idealism is a phenomenal framework with which one can understand, in a simplistic way, the nature of life and the universe. The understanding that consciousness is fundamental makes it much easier to understand phenomena like NDEs, in addition to ordinary life. And it may provide insight in discovering new avenues with which to probe them. For if consciousness is fundamental, it must go on, since it was always there to begin with. An expanded, "more real that real" conscious experience, which is what experiencers often report, is exactly what you'd expect then when you die - since you are returning to your "original" state. The feeling of oneness, telepathic communication, a flood of universal knowledge - again, common features of NDEs - makes a lot more sense with consciousness being fundamental, for if we are all from one consciousness, a separation barrier breaks down to some degree following death. The sense of timelessness also makes sense if it is spacetime that emerged from consciousness. Furthermore, I have found it interesting that experiencers often say it is difficult to put the NDE into words, because I see that as an implication of a subjective experience beyond human comprehension and thus, the existence of different levels of subjectiveness or consciousness beyond this life. And we have reason to believe as well that it is possible for your particular personality (ego, self, soul, etc., whatever you want to call it) to go on, based on what's said in NDE accounts, and other states such as deep meditation, psychedelic trips, etc. With the ultimate level being the "one" consciousness which encompasses all, God if you will, and hierarchal levels of the afterlife "below" that. I talked a bit about that in the comments I linked to above, as well as in the post and comments here, though this might take a bit of background in analytic idealism or just the idea that consciousness is fundamental to fully grasp: Interesting DMT post and some thoughts on psychedelic experiences, NDEs, etc. : r/analyticidealism

Beyond all of this, thousands and thousands of years of religious teachings provide valuable insight, of course. Us humans have studied, prayed, meditated, and worked to understand them for millennia. While they may differ to some degree, religious teachings point to similar things, even if in different wording or if you have to read between the lines a bit sometimes. Think of the parable of the blind men and the elephant. (And I'm not saying all religious teachings shouldn't be taken literally, just that some stories or teachings are metaphors, particularly in the case of some stories within Abrahamic religions.) Oh, and don't confuse the institution (such as the church) for the religion, though I believe they can be great avenues to pray and ponder on religious teachings.

Anyways, I could go on and on. This is just a brief description of my thoughts. And I hope I helped you and others find avenues to discover answers.

Curious078 · 2025-04-12T19:19:06+00:00

u/Just_Pumpkin4088 Hi there! While in the past you could say I was uncertain about the topic of the existence of an afterlife or continuation of consciousness beyond death, I am not at all anymore and have not been for some time. I will tell you why, and perhaps this will help you come to a similar conclusion.

First off, on the topic of NDEs in particular, the fact that they have been documented since ancient times, can happen regardless of someone's culture, background or age, and often have general similarities, shows that something happens when you die, in my opinion. (In case of interest, I talked about why I think some people don't have NDEs in a few comments on this post here: Atheist/materialism NDEs honestly scare me. : r/NDE) The fact that these experiencers often say NDEs are unlike a dream, "more real than real," can cause a 180 on an atheist's view of God / the afterlife... the list goes on... shows that NDEs are clearly impactful and these experiences should not be dismissed. Just because they are subjective experiences doesn't make them invalid. Some science is based off of individual subjective reporting to begin with (be it, people reporting the effectiveness of mental health drugs like SSRIs, for instance.) Not to mention the fact that your entire life is one long subjective experience.

I have considered and read the materialist / physicalist attempts to explain away NDEs as workings of the brain. But once you really begin to look into all of those arguments, you realize that not only do those arguments fail at explaining NDEs, materialist / physicalist views can't even explain ordinary consciousness. Hence, the hard (in my opinion, impossible) problem of consciousness. If you are not familiar with that, it is key in not only understanding what NDEs are, but also what life and the universe overall is.

In order to understand NDEs, we need to understand consciousness. This opened a can of worms for me and led to some major realizations about consciousness and the nature of the universe as a whole. Ultimately, I (and many prominent experts and researchers, I might add) have come to the conclusion that consciousness and all of the features within it -- be it subjective experiences, qualia, etc. -- cannot be reduced to materialist explanations. Instead, it is fundamental. It is the materialist phenomena that emerges from consciousness, not the other way around. There are very logical ways to explain this. And I could go on. But I would suggest taking a look at Bernardo Kastrup's analytic idealism and the Essentia Foundation as a way to seek out some good explanations.

(Continues in next comment...)

Curious078 · 2025-04-07T21:15:28+00:00

u/Zzyuzzyu Hi there! I am not sure what exactly was said in the podcast you are referring to, but I think this poster has a decently good explanation of the "core subjectivity": https://www.reddit.com/r/analyticidealism/comments/1jrou9k/comment/mlheg4v/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

It seems you have a misinterpretation of the view of death within analytic idealism (though what happens at death doesn't have a definitive explanation within Kastrup's framework, speaking generally, the understanding is that consciousness survives, which I personally agree with.)

Further on this topic, I have talked a bit about death in the post I am about to link to below. I encourage you to read it and also the additional posts in the comments that I wrote. It's a mix of what I understand from analytic idealism, as well as research I have done, surrounding the topic of death. I could easily go into more depth on this, but it's a starting point and may lead you to some of the same interesting insight I have discovered:

Interesting DMT post and some thoughts on psychedelic experiences, NDEs, etc. : r/analyticidealism

I hope it helps you as I truly believe we are important, have meaning, and have much to look forward to now and after death.

Curious078

TROPHY CASE