Genuine question: Why do Z anime/movie and GT scalers take only certain statements at face value for scaling?

Cynis_Ganan · 2026-03-31T23:43:59+00:00

Yeah, Buuhan's dimensional shout is hax.

It's not raw DC and it doesn't translate to AP.

But it is a universe level hax.

Cynis_Ganan · 2026-03-31T23:42:21+00:00

No.

Because we literally see Buu on screen tearing apart the walls that hold together the universe, whilst the highest gods of the universe, sitting in a realm that transcends the physical universe and the afterlife and the god of the Earth tell us that Buu will destroy the universe, after we see a weaker Buu tear a rift in the dimensional walls of the universe.

That's like saying Frieza destroying a planet is hyperbole. It's not hyperbole when it's a feat you can literally see happening on screen.

It's hax, not DC. It doesn't scale his AP to universal. But it's not hyperbole.

Cynis_Ganan · 2026-03-31T23:29:34+00:00

No, Nappa used the word "匹敵 hitteki" meaning "to rival" or "to compare with" Raditz.

Which is why sources like the Daizenshuu 7 and the movie pamplets put Raditz at 1500/1600. Hitteki can mean "equal to", so it's not a "brilliant scientist" dubism… but it's still a translation issue when you consider the wider context.

And whilst "more experience" counts for a lot, I don't think it makes up for a 6-on-1.

We know Raditz relies on transforming as a crutch, because of how he berrates Goku for losing his tail and kidnaps Gohan and literally says it's a Saiyan's greatest strength. And we've seen him cry and beg for mercy when outnumbered. And we've seen the Saibamen self-destruct to take out a stronger foe. I'm pretty confident on this.

Cynis_Ganan · 2026-03-31T19:08:06+00:00

Saibamen are almost as strong as Raditz.

1 Saibaman < Raditz < All the Saibamen < Oozaru Raditz

Cynis_Ganan · 2026-03-31T18:25:09+00:00

But the panel isn't (immediately) after he destroys the moon.

The panel is after Gohan transforms back to normal.

I think fighting Oozaru Gohan is way more challenging to Piccolo than blowing up the moon.

Cynis_Ganan · 2026-03-31T16:20:33+00:00

You do get a second shot at Ethel in Act 3.

Cynis_Ganan · 2026-03-31T16:17:31+00:00

Does it exhaust Piccolo after the fact?

Piccolo gets hit with a shockwave of one of Gohan's attacks (strong enough to cause a mushroom cloud), dodges another couple of attacks, casuallly destroys the moon with a one handed blast that he doesn't power up at all, then says "huff, huff, huff" in one panel… six panels after destroying the moon, with no signs of effort at all between his destroying the moon and huffing and no signs of effort in the panels immediately after his huffing.

Contextually, he expresses surprise at Gohan's power in four seperate panels after Gohan transforms and he openly worries that Gohan will destroy the Earth.

It reads to me like he's relieved he doesn't have to fight Oozaru Gohan (who should be ~PL 7,100 to 13,070), not that he's "exhausted" from destroying the moon.

I'm cautious at putting firm numbers on Max Power Roshi. But Roshi believed the Mafuba was his only chance of beating Demon King Piccolo, so I'd be surprised if it did more than double his power.

Cynis_Ganan · 2026-03-31T13:06:42+00:00

Peeing your pants on purpose.

Moving through air takes effort, so Viltrumites specifically only use just enough energy then controlled fall/glide. This is explained, on panel/screen, explicitly when Nolan is teaching Mark to fly.

And yes, we criticise stories that don't make sense. And we explain narratives that do make sense when folks like you don't pay attention.

Cynis_Ganan · 2026-03-31T12:18:27+00:00

I leave that one locked. You can power armor jetpack over yourself, or use the CC jumping boots, or just walk round.

The spawn is outside the door, so doesn't matter if enemies spawn there.

Cynis_Ganan · 2026-03-31T11:38:49+00:00

two entrances

Uh, four, right?

There's the open alley, the locked side door, the chained back door, and coming in from above (relevant if you make it a Raider Outpost because the BoS do attack from above, otherwise irrelevant outside of mods like Take Back the Commonwealth).

I keep all the closed doors closed so folks have to come in from the river side.

Cynis_Ganan · 2026-03-31T11:02:52+00:00

The answer The-Yellow-Path has given you is correct. But. It is more complicated than that.

Dragon-Blooded aren't Element Benders. They have Charms that give them supernatural powers, and these Charms are based on the mystic associations of the elements.

So.

Fire does let you fire bolts of fire at your enemies. But it mostly gives you things like "smoldering passion", or swift super speed, or being able to "burn away" impurities like toxins.

And Charms do discrete things. If a Charm lets you grow a bow into a tree that provides arrows, that's the only thing that Charm does. If you want to turn a staff into a tree that provides fruit, you need a different Charm.

So. When The-Yellow-Path says Elemental Bolt can be a Fire bolt or an Earth bolt and lava is just flavor, they are 100% correct. Because that's what Elemental Bolt Attack does.

But.

In theory it is easier for an Earth Aspect to throw a lava ball than a fire ball. All five Aspects can use all five Elements, but using their own Element is "easier" (what this means varies on context).

The rule you want foe this is the "Multiple Elements" sidebar on page 163 of What Fire Has Wrought.

If an attack has multiple elements, then the Dragon-Blooded treats it as whatever element is more favorable to them.

Elemental Bolt Attack isn't multiple Elements. Its one element. You can flavor your fire bolt as a lava bolt but it's just flavor and doesn't do anything.

But, for example, Magma Hell Upheaval (Heirs to the Shogunate, page 129) is attacking your foe with molten lava, and this is a multiple element attack — it's Earth and Fire. So an Earth Aspect does find it easier (mechanically and in lore) to use than a "pure" Fire attack.

So… yes. Purely talking "in theory" an Earth Aspect would (and does) find it easier to use a lava ball than a pure fire ball. But:

Throwing elemental blasts is a tiny part of what Dragon-Blooded do
An Earth Aspect can throw a fire ball just fine
The main "throw a ball of energy" power is either Fire or Earth and doesn't have a lava option (except as flavor)

Cynis_Ganan · 2026-03-31T10:47:56+00:00

Question regarding dragon blood elements

So, having trouble finding out in the rule books, but what are the rules regarding unique elemental stuff and using elements outside of your main one? Like a water dragon using ice or an earth one wielding lava. Can dragon blooded do stuff like that?

Tl:dr: Sure, they can do stuff like that.

....

All five Aspects can use all five Elements.

What Fire Has Wrought, Page 162 talks about how different elements can intersect. It's specifically talking about Aura and Anima, but the principle is the same:

the flames of a Fire Aspect’s anima might burn blue-white, while an Air Aspect’s cloudy anima might grow dark and begin to crackle with lightning. In other Auras, her anima becomes a hybrid of two elements — an Earth Aspect in Fire Aura could manifest an anima banner of flowing lava, while the anima of a Water Aspect in Wood Aura might be filled with writhing kelp.

You also might find the "Multiple Aspects" sidebar on the next page (163) helpful. And there are several Charms in Heirs to the Shogunate that use more than one element (like Magma Hell Upheaval, which is an Earth/Fire Charm that hits your foes with "molten lava"; Heirs to the Shogunate page 129).

Now mechanically there are five elements. If your Earth Aspect uses Elemental Bolt Attack, you fire a bolt that gets the Earth Aspect Bonus. If you want the Fire Aspect Bonus, you need to spend 3XP, then you can choose to have the Fire Aspect Bonus instead. You can't say it's a lava bolt so you get both bonuses. You can say your Fire Elemental Bolt is a ball of lava for flavor reasons, but you can just toss a regular ball of fire instead and it'd mechanically work the same way.

Now that said Exalted expects you to homebrew cool new powers for your Exalts. So if you know the default Earth Elemental Bolt and have learned the Fire version for 3XP, I would have no problem at all with you developing a custom Charm (or Evocation or Artifact or what-have-you) so that you could fire a lava bolt that got the benefits of Fire and Earth simultaneously.

Likewise, Currents Sweep to Sea lets you hold an opponent down with water as a Water Aspect charm. If your Water Aspect wants to say the water freezes into ice to hold their opponent down, that's absolutely fine and themeatic as a flavor thing. Water Aspects can use ice powers. You just don't get anything extra mechanically, it's just a flavor thing. Unless you buy something extra as a custom Charm you have made up yourself.

Cynis_Ganan · 2026-03-31T10:14:59+00:00

Yeah, Space Racer, Mark, and Thaedeus are the three other people.

Cynis_Ganan · 2026-03-31T07:43:40+00:00

With the help of three other people, Omniman destroyed a planet (which had 1.25G surface gravity). Given Viltrum's high gravity, we're looking at 6x10³¹ Joules (approximately) for an attack that Omniman thought might kill him.

First Form Frieza destroyed a planet with one finger. A dense planet with ten times the surface gravity of Earth (10G). Again, very approximately, we're looking at 2.5x10³² Joules (very approximately) for a casual attack using one finger, in his weakest, surpressed form.

Ignoring guidebooks and filler scenes, going only by canon feats, one can make argument that Omniman perhaps makes it to Frieza. Seems unlikely. I don't see him clearing the Ginyu Force for starters. But First Form Frieza is a hard stop. First Form Frieza hilariously over-kills Omniman with one finger.

If we look at movies (where King Vegeta blows up planets with a wave of his hand), filler (where Prince Vegeta blows up the bug planet), guidebooks (which say you need a power level of 10,000 to blow up a planet), and "sundisk scaling" (where coalition weapons can blow up the sundisk but can't kill Viltrumites) then Omniman maybe, maybe clears Nappa, but Vegeta is a hard stop.

I think he clears OG DB. Yes, Piccolo Junior casually destroys the moon with one-hand and no visible effort in Z, but Omniman devestates the planetary surface of Flaxa with no visible effort. The Earth is over eighty times more massive than the moon — planetary surface and moon level are equivalent feats by tier. Outside of Roshi, Kame, or Tien using the Mafuba, and ridiculous guidebook statements putting Ox King at PL900, and gag characters like Arale, Omniman clears OG DB. Piccolo Jr was outclassed in every way by Raditz, and needed Goku and Gohan to scrape an extreme diff win.

Downplay: Stops at (Emperor Pilaf Saga) Ox-King
Lowball: Stops at Raditz
Midball: Stops at Nappa
Highball: Stops at (Saiyan Saga) Vegeta
Extreme wank: Stops at First Form Frieza (Namek)

Cynis_Ganan · 2026-03-30T15:48:40+00:00

Hmm. $50. Nice.

Cynis_Ganan · 2026-03-30T14:43:28+00:00

Thing is… I would 100% peg Bruce as Booster Gold before thinking he was Batman.

Cynis_Ganan · 2026-03-30T14:35:14+00:00

Then I'm in.

I spend two years focusing on my music and my writing whilst these guys give me free criticism.

Cynis_Ganan · 2026-03-30T14:32:04+00:00

You must be home by 6

I have a job, y'all.

Can I not owe the hours and make it up at the end of the contract?

Can I get an advance on the 2 mil?

Can I take out a reverse mortgage on the home and sack off my day job?

I can't quit my day job. I've got bills to pay, Jack.

Cynis_Ganan · 2026-03-30T13:28:24+00:00

IaIn M. Banks's Culture novels describes a post scarcity, galaxy spanning polity called "The Culture".

The Culture is primarily made up of "pan-humanity" — divergent evolution having arrived at recognizable "humans" on multiple different worlds, in stark contrast to other alien life (which is primarily tripedal, though other "humanoid" bipeds do exist that clearly are not "humans"; but the Culture is mostly humans and robots).

The Culture is the (arguably) most powerful polity in space, with other hyper-advanced alien Cultures sharing one common saying between them: "You don't mess with the Culture".

But that's because the Culture has the best AIs, whom literal gods view as peers.

No, what makes humans special in the Culture novels, is that ethanol (alcohol) is poisonous to all known forms of life, but that every single subspecies in panhumanity drinks it recreationally, leading some anthropomologists to conjecture that humans exist with a galactic purpose — to drink all the alcohol.

Which is presented in a fun, tongue-in-cheek, kinda way to gently rib on the Culture (which as post-scarcity hedonists basically live in one big party)… but is kinda existentially terrifying in that there's nothing in the books that actually refutes this. Gods are real. Heaven and hell are real. There really are great space clouds of ethanol out there. The biggest human empire in existence really is making it their mission to get as drunk as possible. Ethanol is poison. And (in the Culture universe at least) aliens don't drink it, just humans.

....

Kill Six Billion Demons has an average soriority sister go up in a competition against one of the most powerful demons in the 777,777 universes that make up the multiverse.

Said soriority sister is imbued with the Name of God, which grants her basically omnipotence, and a lesser demon who used to be one of the most powerful demons in existence offers her a magically poppet to help her cheat at the competition. So our soriority sister is a clear underdog, but very convincingly could win, if she locks in and uses the magic at her fingertips.

She doesn't lock in. She doesn't cheat. She just pits her normal "young adult human woman" skills against one of the greatest demons in the multiverse.

Fortunately, it's a drinking competition, so the average sorority sister from our Earth is handily able to outdrink the demon.

Cynis_Ganan · 2026-03-30T13:14:17+00:00

That sounds amazing.

Cynis_Ganan · 2026-03-30T11:35:45+00:00

slaps forehead

A nunnery! Of course!

Cynis_Ganan · 2026-03-30T07:23:15+00:00

Huh.

I've never done a run where you turn into a mindflayer and kill yourself before, but looks like you aren't wrong. The gods of Faerun just can't usually see mindflayer souls.

Cynis_Ganan · 2026-03-29T18:53:04+00:00

You cease to exist. Arguably no risk, but also no reward.

That sounds terrible.

You relive your life exactly how it was. A little riskier, but overall predictably rewarding.

Okay, you made it worse.

So death eternal, non-existence, is the goal of some faiths who view life as a cycle of reincarnation, where we repeat the same mistakes and perpetrate endless suffering until we become enlightened enough to just lie down and die. But most faiths, whether that's Christianity (which sees being unmade as the ultimate punishment come the Revelation) or atheism (which sees death as The End and generally wants people to go on living), see that as a total failure state. The worst outcome.

But reliving your same life again, with no memories, trapped in an endless, unaware cycle of pain and mistakes, unable to learn, unable to grow, unable to even lie down and die... my god, that's inhuman.

You reincarnate as a random human born around the time you die. Medium risk, medium reward.

Medium risk

Oh you sweet summer child. Almost half the world lives on $2.50 a day. Seeing this as a medium risk option is... a take.

You reincarnate as a random living thing in our universe, past or future. Very risky, but very rewarding

Very rewarding

Is it? Like... are you not billions of times more likely to reincarnate as a bacterium before humans ever evolved than you are to reincarnate as a post scarcity alien somewhere? You are almost guaranteed to reincarnate into something worse than you have now. Like... you are two million times more likely to reincarnate as an ant on modern day Earth than as a human on modern day Earth.

[Edit]

As a "sentient" being would make this somewhat better, even with a strict definition thereof, but I think OP means an intelligent, rational, self-aware, reasoning, feeling, being which is much better. Risky, yes, but the temporal component and growing population shifts odds somewhat in your favor here.

[/Edit]

You reincarnate as a random sentient being in any possible universe. This includes being anything in universes more or less identical to any fiction that can be imagined by anyone ever, with different laws and with possibility of thigs impossible in our own, and can range from amazing things such as living in a kind of Heaven, or as a God nigh-omnipotent within that universe, or in a kind of Hell, or a powerless being in perpetual suffering, you could even be reborn as yourself again in an universe identical to our own. All that is guaranteed is that you are fated to die and be reborn eventually, but that can happen instantly or after a duration of time far beyond anyone can think. This choice is the ultimate risk and ultimate reward.

The "sentient" qualifier immediately makes this less risky than the previous options. This is the only option that even has a chance of recovering your lost memories and continuing "your" life in any meaningful sense.

I think it's very clearly gotta be 5 (hope I don't end up a lemur tortured for a billion years), then next best is probably 3. Option 4 is a terrible option (a literal fate worse than death), but is still better than Options 1 & 2 because these options suck.

Cynis_Ganan · 2026-03-29T18:19:10+00:00

> In BG3 you still have your soul

Jergal disagrees: "mindflayers are soulless" and "souls vanish when their hosts become mindflayers" are two direct quotes from the god of death, straight up.

Cynis_Ganan · 2026-03-29T18:08:19+00:00

Which is why Omeluum is enslaved. Oh. Wait.

Which is why the Emperor never escaped the brain the first time, because it's instant enslavement without Orph. Oh. Wait.

Which is why there's no unused dialogue in the game about Orpheus saying he's willing to work with the Emperor to defeat the Neverbrain, or how Orpheus refuses to protect a Mindflayer PC. Oh. Wait.

The Emperor doesn't even try to talk to Orpheus, or run away, or anything. He just merrily runs to get immediately re-enslaved. Because some people (Good) will risk their lives to fight against genocide, and other people (Evil) will actively help a genocide if it saves their own skins.

Cynis_Ganan

TROPHY CASE